225 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

True, I always simple viewed it as using your own life as a power source, rather then mana. Only because of Chantry propaganda was it labeled "TEH EVILZ" but most mages we met in DA2 were loonies, like Grace (ungrateful b!tch) that one with the crazy makeup possessing templars and On the Loose. Ugh.

So hopefully they're gonna fix that? Good, good. Also need moar good templars like Thrask. Wouldn't mind one like him on my team.

Grace wasn't crazy, she was possessed. And On the Loose only had one crazy mage; one of them was a good person who got possessed, while one was just an unlucky soul. There's still Tarohne, but she's fairly isolated.

[CuriousArtemis]

WTF is up with the Cullen hate.

[KiwiQuiche]

Mr.House wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...
True, I always simple viewed it as using your own life as a power source, rather then mana. Only because of Chantry propaganda was it labeled "TEH EVILZ" but most mages we met in DA2 were loonies, like Grace (ungrateful b!tch) that one with the crazy makeup possessing templars and On the Loose. Ugh.

So hopefully they're gonna fix that? Good, good. Also need moar good templars like Thrask. Wouldn't mind one like him on my team.

All Thrask wanted was Meredith out of power, that's it.

But he also asked for Hawke's help with the Starkhaven mages; he didn't want them all killed, he wanted to end it peacefully. He'll also agree with your/Varric's story if you lie to the other templar.

[KiwiQuiche]

Xilizhra wrote...

True, I always simple viewed it as using your own life as a power source, rather then mana. Only because of Chantry propaganda was it labeled "TEH EVILZ" but most mages we met in DA2 were loonies, like Grace (ungrateful b!tch) that one with the crazy makeup possessing templars and On the Loose. Ugh.

So hopefully they're gonna fix that? Good, good. Also need moar good templars like Thrask. Wouldn't mind one like him on my team.

Grace wasn't crazy, she was possessed. And On the Loose only had one crazy mage; one of them was a good person who got possessed, while one was just an unlucky soul. There's still Tarohne, but she's fairly isolated.

Maybe the templars need to get more lessons, they seem to be really bad at spotting Abominations

[Xilizhra]

motomotogirl wrote...

WTF is up with the Cullen hate.

Well, he's a high-powered leader of a tyrannical, bigoted army of religious zealots who effectively launched a coup in Kirkwall and have been grinding the life out of the mages in their prison for years on end. Also, he helps lead the genocide attempt at the end of the game. So, y'know. Dealbreakers.

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...
He's argued with them about many things, such as the legality of the Annulment and atheism. He's never once said that I or anyone else is incorrect about our opinions of the templars such as I have stated here.

David Gaider wrote...

If someone wishes to see the Chantry as heartless oppressors, by all means-- there are many ways to interpret the situation, and that's intentional. If someone tries to argue that there are absolutes involved, or that anything we've written suggests there are, they're quite simply deluded-- not to put too fine a point on it.

Link.

Dave of Canada wrote...
She expects (and desires) the Templar Order to become the ME3-Cerberus of DA3 and calls it good writing, don't bother.

She so crazy.

Modifié par GodWood, 26 septembre 2012 - 01:59 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Filament wrote...

I certainly hope so. At least creepy zealots like Alrik are up-front about their bigotry and desire to rape you.

Yes, the templars seem to like that stuff. Poor Alain, I wanted to kill Karras when I heard that part. >:I Curse non-Fallout ability to kill people whenever.

[RazorrX]

R2s Muse wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

RazorrX wrote...
Actually no.  I simply do not like Cullen at all.  

Now give me a templar who actually embodies what it means to be a templar like Evangeline in Asunder and I would be SUPER happy to have them in my party, etc.  

... You've read the end of Asunder, right?

Yes, just finished it again last night.  I still hold that she stayed true to what she believed a templar was supposed to be, not what they have become.

Curious. I would argue that this is also what Cullen does in Act 3. He explicitly stands up to Meredith because she's not following what the Order is supposed to be, both with the surrendering mages and when he tries to relieve her of her command. I actually see he and Evangeline being rather similar.

Evangeline was a good templar from the beginning.  She felt that mages were people, and that the Templars had a duty to them as well as to the world.  The core believe was that Tempars existed to protect mages from themselves as well as to protect Thedas from the danger a mage *COULD* become.  But core to this belief was that mages were still basically people first, mages second.  This is also mirrored by the Divine btw.  This belief is what compells her to do what she does thorought the story.

Cullen views mages as all being a nuclear bomb waiting to go off.  Not people anymore, just a dangerous thing (Sarebas) that must be kept locked up at all costs.  He viewed the templars as jailers more than anything else and even argued that the hero of ferelden annul the circle entirely.  When the Knight Commander of Ferelden ruled that the circle was safe, he protested that you could not trust them, etc.  Even in DA2 he voices this over and over.  He does not step in and stop the evil acts going on in the Circle in Kirkwall.  He does not change his opinion until AFTER Merideth has gone off the deep end and starts killing every mage she sees.  He sees mages try to surrender and be cut down, etc.  It is only then that he steps up and says "This is wrong." 

So no, he is not really the same as Evangeline.

Now maybe they will make him SO different from the previous Cullen that I like him, but as it stands now, I really do not care for him at all.

[Xilizhra]

If someone wishes to see the Chantry as heartless oppressors, by all means-- there are many ways to interpret the situation, and that's intentional. If someone tries to argue that there are absolutes involved, or that anything we've written suggests there are, they're quite simply deluded-- not to put too fine a point on it.

Obviously there aren't absolutes. You yourself prove this by the fact that you're arguing against it. Interpretation is everywhere, and no writer is going to say there are absolutes.

[CuriousArtemis]

No but seriously, can you guys just start an "I hate Cullen" thread and post there instead of starting a new thread every couple hours?

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...
Obviously there aren't absolutes. You yourself prove this by the fact that you're arguing against it. Interpretation is everywhere, and no writer is going to say there are absolutes.

Your interpretation of the Templar order is an absolute. Therefore your interpretation is wrong.

[Xilizhra]

GodWood wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Obviously there aren't absolutes. You yourself prove this by the fact that you're arguing against it. Interpretation is everywhere, and no writer is going to say there are absolutes.

Your interpretation of the Templar order is an absolute. Therefore your interpretation is wrong.

My opinion is that they're heartless oppressors. This is sufficiently correct.

[KiwiQuiche]

motomotogirl wrote...

No but seriously, can you guys just start an "I hate Cullen" thread and post there instead of starting a new thread every couple hours?

I think we had one of those but I dunno where it went.

[Eveangaline]

While I don't have much of an opinion on cullen himself, I'd love for there to be companions that are mutually exclusive from very early on

Sort of like the twins, only not based on your class

Modifié par Eveangaline, 26 septembre 2012 - 02:06 .

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...
My opinion is that they're heartless oppressors. This is sufficiently correct.

Your opinions are your opinions. Nothing more.

[KiwiQuiche]

GodWood wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
My opinion is that they're heartless oppressors. This is sufficiently correct.

Your opinions are your opinions. Nothing more.

Everyone has their own view point on things, regardless of lore evidence or lack of. Agreed? Don't think you two are gonna change minds at this point, so lets go back to Cullen.

[RazorrX]

Eveangaline wrote...

While I don't have much of an opinion on cullen himself, I'd love for there to be companions that are mutually exclusive from very early on

Sort of like the twins, only not based on your class

Actually that would be cool. 

[sylvanaerie]

Fiacre wrote...

I'm pretty sure you can tell him to leave after the whole Ella debacle in Act, though I've never done that.

And Anders is hardly the only plot important companion we couldn't get rid off until the end. I remember a certain Grey Warden from Origins... I've fared perfectly well by having my character decide he's annoying and then never taking him with me on missions.

I've done it, you can. He doesn't leave Kirkwall, I think he's just removed from the party select screen (I think he's greyed out like Carver/Bethany, but its been some time for me since that playthrough).  Later you see him during a dialogue with Varric in act 3 and when the end of Act 3 comes, he still does what he does.  If questioned about "I thought I told you to get out of town" he just says something like "I never left, I just stayed out of your way."  This was my Hawke who felt the most disconnected from him.  I did it on the off chance it changed something in that scene, but nope, still happens regardless.

I get what OP means being forced to have a character you don't like with you.  In Anders case, he was pretty plot specific.  Just as Alistair is also plot specific till Landsmeet where you can swap him out for Loghain if you wish.  Hopefully, Cullen won't be as vital and will be more 'optional' like Isabela and Fenris.  My first playthrough I completely missed picking Fen up and didn't realize it till I was into Act 2, and it had little impact on my game. 

My advice is the same.  If you don't like him, just let him chill in camp or his home base or whatever DA3 will have for companions to stay in.  Take him only on those missions he's necessary for advancing plot.

I found Anders annoying but it didn't stop me from playing and enjoying my games, just as any other companion I don't like wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.  At least it wasn't like Tallis who is forced on you the entirity of the Assassin DLC.  After a couple plays through that, I am growing to really dislike the character, and I'm a huge fan of Felicia Day and "The Guild". 

[LobselVith8]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

True, I always simple viewed it as using your own life as a power source, rather then mana. Only because of Chantry propaganda was it labeled "TEH EVILZ" but most mages we met in DA2 were loonies, like Grace (ungrateful b!tch) that one with the crazy makeup possessing templars and On the Loose. Ugh.

So hopefully they're gonna fix that? Good, good. Also need moar good templars like Thrask. Wouldn't mind one like him on my team.

Grace was a caricature. The depiction of mages was a sad joke in Dragon Age II: no depth to the multitude of mages, no insight into the dichotomy between the mages and the templars, no exploration of the Fraternities. All but two of the mage antagonists were insane, stupid, and nonsensical. We saw this with Decimus, Tahrone, Huon, Grace, Endgame Orsino... it was an endless spree of mages who were lunatics.

[KiwiQuiche]

LobselVith8 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

True, I always simple viewed it as using your own life as a power source, rather then mana. Only because of Chantry propaganda was it labeled "TEH EVILZ" but most mages we met in DA2 were loonies, like Grace (ungrateful b!tch) that one with the crazy makeup possessing templars and On the Loose. Ugh.

So hopefully they're gonna fix that? Good, good. Also need moar good templars like Thrask. Wouldn't mind one like him on my team.

Grace was a caricature. The depiction of mages was a sad joke in Dragon Age II: no depth to the multitude of mages, no insight into the dichotomy between the mages and the templars, no exploration of the Fraternities. All but two of the mage antagonists were insane, stupid, and nonsensical. We saw this with Decimus, Tahrone, Huon, Grace, Endgame Orsino... it was an endless spree of mages who were lunatics.

Yeah I never got why Orsino went nutty, especially since a lot of the mages were still alive when he went all "AGRJKAJKDF" at the end. :| It made no sense.

[RazorrX]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

True, I always simple viewed it as using your own life as a power source, rather then mana. Only because of Chantry propaganda was it labeled "TEH EVILZ" but most mages we met in DA2 were loonies, like Grace (ungrateful b!tch) that one with the crazy makeup possessing templars and On the Loose. Ugh.

So hopefully they're gonna fix that? Good, good. Also need moar good templars like Thrask. Wouldn't mind one like him on my team.

Grace was a caricature. The depiction of mages was a sad joke in Dragon Age II: no depth to the multitude of mages, no insight into the dichotomy between the mages and the templars, no exploration of the Fraternities. All but two of the mage antagonists were insane, stupid, and nonsensical. We saw this with Decimus, Tahrone, Huon, Grace, Endgame Orsino... it was an endless spree of mages who were lunatics.

Yeah I never got why Orsino went nutty, especially since a lot of the mages were still alive when he went all "AGRJKAJKDF" at the end. :| It made no sense.

I had hoped that what ever side you chose would end up being the wrong side.  Like if you chose mages over templars then Merideth would have ended up being totally sane, and trying to just control mages gone mad.  Perhaps she even reveals that she has finally gotten proof that Orsino was working with the serial killer, causing him to to crazy and attack everything, etc.

or if you chose the Templars Orsino would have actually been a good and decent guy, who never once went crazy, tried to talk merideth down, over and over, etc. only to have the Lyrium drive her nutso.

[LobselVith8]

 

Mr.House wrote...
Cullen outright defies Meredith, stripping her of command when she as last lost it and crossed the line.

Cullen defies Meredith to protect Hawke, not to stop a genocide against an entire population of people who are innocent of Anders' actions.

Mr.House wrote...

Also defending three inocent mages who don't want to fight near the end and he will let Hawke go at the end if oyu helped the mages.

Three out of hundreds of men, women, and children. Three who may be made tranquil.

Mr.House wrote...

Cullen while yes starts off as your normal templar changes and shows some compasion. Who's to say in DA3 he will be the same guy we saw in DA2 when at the end of DA2 he has showen some change?

If my protagonist can be pro-mage, why bother having an opponent at my side?

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

WTF is up with the Cullen hate.

Well, he's a high-powered leader of a tyrannical, bigoted army of religious zealots who effectively launched a coup in Kirkwall and have been grinding the life out of the mages in their prison for years on end. Also, he helps lead the genocide attempt at the end of the game. So, y'know. Dealbreakers.

Love how you ignore any positives, also Meredith was the one who started the "coup" , something that even Cullen disagreeded with. But hey if you want to think every templar is a heartless killer be my guest.