225 réponses à ce sujet

[terdferguson123]

LolaLei wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

How can anyone dislike Cullen so much?

Well, he did want to kill every mage in the circle tower in Ferelden just because he thought they MIGHT be abominations. Seems like a knee jerk reaction to the situation and we don't really need that in our group.

Disliking him for that is absurd, in my opinion. He was tortured for days, and he saws both mages and templars been killed or transformed in abomination by Uldred. He was close to madness at that point. I doubt that anyone (even more moderate templars like Ser Otto or Set Thask) would've said something different in Cullen's situation.

Agreed. From what he says whilst caged in Kinloch Hold, he was stuck in there for weeks maybe even months, starved of food, water, sleep and lyrium. Anyone would react the same way after being tortured for a prolonged period of time and forced to watch their friends die in combat or twist and warp into fleshy abominations. His reaction was more than justifiable.

So, we should all just say it's okay that he wanted to, and if wasn't locked up, would go around and kill every mage he saw, all because he was deprived and tortured? That after he was freed and the tower was mostly restored he STILL wanted Gregoir to go back in and kill all of the mages? That in DA2 he is on board the idea of annulment and only changes his mind after he realizes Meredith is posessed? This is sad. I get that you like the character, and thats fine, but all I am trying to do is show how some people don't like him and why. After all my post was in answer to someone who asked "how can someone dislike cullen?" If we can't dislike a character for being weak willed then I don't know what to say.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 27 septembre 2012 - 02:06 .

[Chiramu]

If they can make a companion that you DON'T have to get in a playthrough then I demand this for the two previous games too.

It's not fair on everyone else if people who don't want Cullen to not have to get Cullen if he's a companion. I bloody didn't want so many companions that I got in my previous parties. I'll be pretty pissed off if you can now suddenly pick and choose companions.

[brushyourteeth]

terdferguson123 wrote...

So, we should all just say it's okay that he wanted to, and if wasn't locked up, would go around and kill every mage he saw, all because he was deprived and tortured? That after he was freed and the tower was mostly restored he STILL wanted Gregoir to go back in and kill all of the mages? That in DA2 he is on board the idea of annulment and only changes his mind after he realizes Meredith is posessed? This is sad. I get that you like the character, and thats fine, but all I am trying to do is show how some people don't like him and why. After all my post was in answer to someone who asked "how can someone dislike cullen?" If we can't dislike a character for being weak willed then I don't know what to say.

I replied to explain why I thought Cullen's conclusions were pretty reasonable back on page six. If you're interested. 

Hope you don't think I'm a terrible person afterward, but I stand by what I wrote.

[LolaLei]

terdferguson123 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

How can anyone dislike Cullen so much?

Well, he did want to kill every mage in the circle tower in Ferelden just because he thought they MIGHT be abominations. Seems like a knee jerk reaction to the situation and we don't really need that in our group.

Disliking him for that is absurd, in my opinion. He was tortured for days, and he saws both mages and templars been killed or transformed in abomination by Uldred. He was close to madness at that point. I doubt that anyone (even more moderate templars like Ser Otto or Set Thask) would've said something different in Cullen's situation.

Agreed. From what he says whilst caged in Kinloch Hold, he was stuck in there for weeks maybe even months, starved of food, water, sleep and lyrium. Anyone would react the same way after being tortured for a prolonged period of time and forced to watch their friends die in combat or twist and warp into fleshy abominations. His reaction was more than justifiable.

So, we should all just say it's okay that he wanted to, and if wasn't locked up, would go around and kill every mage he saw, all because he was deprived and tortured? That after he was freed and the tower was mostly restored he STILL wanted Gregoir to go back in and kill all of the mages? That in DA2 he is on board the idea of annulment and only changes his mind after he realizes Meredith is posessed? This is sad. I get that you like the character, and thats fine, but all I am trying to do is show how some people don't like him and why. After all my post was in answer to someone who asked "how can someone dislike cullen?" If we can't dislike a character for being weak willed then I don't know what to say.

I didn't say it was ok, I said he was justified for him to be thinking that after the hell he'd been put through. Did I do as he asked and kill all the mages? Hell no!

[SafetyShattered]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Troll thread...

Uh....how? It's not just the OP. I hate Cullen too. He annoys me to death. Just because someone dislikes someone that you like doesn't automatically make him a troll.

[Minttymint]

Chiramu wrote...

If they can make a companion that you DON'T have to get in a playthrough then I demand this for the two previous games too.

It's not fair on everyone else if people who don't want Cullen to not have to get Cullen if he's a companion. I bloody didn't want so many companions that I got in my previous parties. I'll be pretty pissed off if you can now suddenly pick and choose companions.

Well you dont have to get Isabela, Sebastian or Fenris in 2 and in Origins you can leave, Sten, Shale, Leliana and Zevran. I think thats it... Havent played in a while.

[Shadow Fox]

Ugh fangirls...

[SamaraDraven]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Ugh fangirls...

We're all fans of some kind or another here.

[Shadow Fox]

Avejajed wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Ugh fangirls...

<_<

Ugh, annoying people.

No it's "Ugh fangirls":P

[LolaLei]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Ugh fangirls...

<_<

Ugh, annoying people.

No it's "Ugh fangirls":P

Urgh, smartass lol.

[Shadow Fox]

Avejajed wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Ugh fangirls...

<_<

Ugh, annoying people.

No it's "Ugh fangirls":P

Watch it, you'll end up married to a fangirl one day and then you'll be sleeping alone while your honeyboo is glued to the laptop wishing it was her making out with Alistair instead of her character. Karma's a ****, baby.

But she's a HOT ****

[MorningBird]

tbh, I don't really see the problem with this thread? I mean, it's not like the OP is suggesting anything new here. My memory might be a little bit rusty, but I'm pretty sure you didn't have to take Wynne out of the circle tower if you didn't like her, or pick up Leliana... or Zevran... Could you tell Morrigan to leave too? I don't remember, but Sten you could leave caged up in Lothering... you could kill Dog...

In DA2 you didn't have to pick up Fenris, or Isabela, I've heard. You can tell Anders to bugger off as well after his companion quest in Act 2... no idea on the others.

If anyone voiced dislike for one of these characters in the past, you could count on someone chiming in to the discussion with, "Well don't pick them up them!"

I think that's all that's being requested here. OP would just prefer it that if (IF) Cullen is made a companion, he be more of a 'Wynne' and less of 'Varric', if that comparison makes any sense.

Personally, I tend to treat companions like pokemon ): so you can imagine how varied my play-throughs are, lol.

[keekee53]

R2s Muse wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

hhh89 wrote...


I doubt that any templars wouldn't have reacted in the same way that Cullen did.

LOL too many double negatives there for me... are you suggesting that most templars would have reacted the same way? Or that Cullen's response is unique?

The former. Putting aside his inexperience with abominations (which anyway had a key role in shaping his personality after the event) the torture (both physical and mental) he suffered was enourmous. I doubt that after that experience, a templar didn't have the same opinion of Cullen about mages (although temporarily, since Cullen did not act in the same way he did in Origins, and the didn't became the most extremist templar neither).

Ah, okay, that's what I thought... guess I'm only confused over the fact that it seemed you and sylvanpixie were actually saying the same thing... ?

Indeed, I agree. I think it was a pretty horrible situation to which many would have reacted quite badly. I think it makes sense that he was in a pretty unstable state of mind after. I also imagine something like that would stay with him. I'm told that he shows some pretty classic PTSD symptoms in DA2 which is a some nice character continuity since Act 1 is only shortly after the end of the Blight. And, then, nevertheless, he comes through it and recovers without becoming a zealot like Meredith.

One thing I like about his character arc is that he's seen both extremes now of a Circle. He starts out DA:O in a Circle that could be considered to be a bit lax with the mages, and where the mages have become extreme.Then he comes to Kirkwall where the treatment of the mages is completely the opposite, and the templars have become extreme. I think that puts him in a unique position to comment on where the middle road might be.

^^This

His character arc is why he should be a companion. 

[thenemesis1]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

thenemesis1 wrote...

What is so good about this guy...the guy would not listen to my Warden..even after I saved the mage tower..geezz..but heck I know the girls like him.

Becasue the Warden is the smartest, greatest being to walk the earth and everyone shoud prostrate themselves before him and kiss his buttcheeks?
Seriouly, some people have an ego that reaches the stars....

Also, why should he listen to you? Do you have any argument other than "but I'm the PROTAGONIST"?
Especially given his mental state at that point (you know..physical and mental torture, lack of sleep, stress).

Your right if I had the chance...seeing as how iam the big bad protagonist I should have seen past that mental state the chap was in and just saved us all the mess..and just cut him down...oh yea thats what i was thinking..since ..the Warden is so above...all.

[Xilizhra]

Granted, I like keeping innocents alive as much as the next girl. But out of the hundreds of mages at Kinloch Hold, there were about a dozen adults and two children still un-abominated, and about a quarter of those adults were blood mages who helped make it happen. The rest were already running around all gooey and evil, ready to kill or enslave everything that moved.

This is... not accurate. Really. Did you even see the long parade of mages leaving the tower in the cutscene before the final battle against the Archdemon? Way more than twelve; they just weren't shown.
And regardless, it's the templars' job to protect the mages. Well, maybe it isn't really, but I'll still condemn them for not holding to the ideals the Order pretends to have. Have reinforcements, maybe, but only kill abominations, which doesn't require the Annulment at all.

[Eveangaline]

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

LolaLei wrote...
Agreed. From what he says whilst caged in Kinloch Hold, he was stuck in there for weeks maybe even months, starved of food, water, sleep and lyrium. Anyone would react the same way after being tortured for a prolonged period of time and forced to watch their friends die in combat or twist and warp into fleshy abominations. His reaction was more than justifiable.

Wouldn't he die after like at most a week without water?

Perhaps. But I am thinking the demons kept him alive for the fun or hoping that he would finally let them 'inside'.

I'm not certain demons or spirits know enough about mortal needs to realize they would have to give him something to drink. Justice didn't seem to understand physical needs, and he was inside someone

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

I wasn't denying Cullen's ability to resist the torture, or endure the torment. I was simply pointing out that his inexperience may have caused him to suffer greater long term emotional trauma than a more experienced Templar might have.

You know, it's torture...I don't think experience matters that much... unless you have experience of being tortured, which I doubt.

You can throw a civilian in the torture chamber and a SpecOps operative - both will break eventually. Both will be scarred. It is inevitable. Seeing s*** scars a person.

And demonic torture is probably worse than anything our "normal" torture can do...ya know.with them getting into your head and dreams.

[Lotion Soronarr]

terdferguson123 wrote...

So, we should all just say it's okay that he wanted to, and if wasn't locked up, would go around and kill every mage he saw, all because he was deprived and tortured? That after he was freed and the tower was mostly restored he STILL wanted Gregoir to go back in and kill all of the mages? That in DA2 he is on board the idea of annulment and only changes his mind after he realizes Meredith is posessed? This is sad. I get that you like the character, and thats fine, but all I am trying to do is show how some people don't like him and why. After all my post was in answer to someone who asked "how can someone dislike cullen?" If we can't dislike a character for being weak willed then I don't know what to say.

Given that the veil is torn and abominatiosn can hide easily in plain sight? It is a reasonable precaution to anull the circle and be done with the threat. Collateral damage is regretable, but acceptable.
Morality aside, it is a logical step.

Anulling the circle in DA2? Given the rampant blood magic? Again, not unreasonable by itself. Unreasonable if you do it only because of Anders. There is logic behind the annulment.

Meredith was crazy, no doubt about it.

Cullen isn't weak willed. Far from it, he is exceptionally stong-willed. Otherwise, he wouldn't have survived the mental rape.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Granted, I like keeping innocents alive as much as the next girl. But out of the hundreds of mages at Kinloch Hold, there were about a dozen adults and two children still un-abominated, and about a quarter of those adults were blood mages who helped make it happen. The rest were already running around all gooey and evil, ready to kill or enslave everything that moved.

This is... not accurate. Really. Did you even see the long parade of mages leaving the tower in the cutscene before the final battle against the Archdemon? Way more than twelve; they just weren't shown.
And regardless, it's the templars' job to protect the mages. Well, maybe it isn't really, but I'll still condemn them for not holding to the ideals the Order pretends to have. Have reinforcements, maybe, but only kill abominations, which doesn't require the Annulment at all.

Because abominations walk around with a big fat neon sign on their foreheads saying "I'm an abomination, kill me"?
For all we know, the kids were abominations.

Which puts the templars in a very difficult position. When a quarantene happens NO ONE gets out. Child or not.

[LobselVith8]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

GodWood wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
The Warden can even express it's a "prison" and an "oppressive place."

You keep using this example as if it has any weight. All that shows is the Warden can have this as an opinion. (S)he can also have no issue with it.

Or see it as a safe haven from the world but don't bother it's like talking to a brick wall when it comes to him.

I used that quote to address that Dragon Age invites the player to form views on a myriad of issues, including the templars. However, since you need to make a snide remark every time you see one of my posts because you're a troll, I suppose there's no point in addressing that you completely missed my point.

[The Elder King]

terdferguson123 wrote...



So, we should all just say it's okay that he wanted to, and if wasn't locked up, would go around and kill every mage he saw, all because he was deprived and tortured? That after he was freed and the tower was mostly restored he STILL wanted Gregoir to go back in and kill all of the mages? That in DA2 he is on board the idea of annulment and only changes his mind after he realizes Meredith is posessed? This is sad. I get that you like the character, and thats fine, but all I am trying to do is show how some people don't like him and why. After all my post was in answer to someone who asked "how can someone dislike cullen?" If we can't dislike a character for being weak willed then I don't know what to say.

No, you didn't understand me. It's perfectly fine to dislike or hate him or want to kill him for what he did in the Epilogue or in DA2. And most of the time I agreed with Irwing that the mages shouldn't be killed at the end of TBC. What I'm saying is that his reaction was reasonable because of the tortured he suffered.

Modifié par hhh89, 27 septembre 2012 - 01:30 .

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Granted, I like keeping innocents alive as much as the next girl. But out of the hundreds of mages at Kinloch Hold, there were about a dozen adults and two children still un-abominated, and about a quarter of those adults were blood mages who helped make it happen. The rest were already running around all gooey and evil, ready to kill or enslave everything that moved.

This is... not accurate. Really. Did you even see the long parade of mages leaving the tower in the cutscene before the final battle against the Archdemon? Way more than twelve; they just weren't shown.
And regardless, it's the templars' job to protect the mages. Well, maybe it isn't really, but I'll still condemn them for not holding to the ideals the Order pretends to have. Have reinforcements, maybe, but only kill abominations, which doesn't require the Annulment at all.

Because abominations walk around with a big fat neon sign on their foreheads saying "I'm an abomination, kill me"?
For all we know, the kids were abominations.

Which puts the templars in a very difficult position. When a quarantene happens NO ONE gets out. Child or not.

Given that abominations instantly attack if you gently poke them with magic, testing this isn't hard. Their blood could also be checked for demonic corruption... if blood magic beyond phylacteries was allowed.