225 réponses à ce sujet

[RedWulfi]

I dont judge characters until Ive played the game.. I hated fenris and merrill at first but after getting to know them they grew on me.

[sylvanaerie]

Maclimes wrote...

In this crazy Mage V Templar thing, I found myself hating both groups. I remember wishing I could play someone who was openly judgmental of both of them.

I reminds me of my thoughts when these same arguments go around on Star Wars forums. "Are Sith really evil?", "Jedi are the real villains", etc, etc. I just chuckle to myself, and think, "Man, I'm glad I prefer Han Solo over all those silly Jedi and Sith".

Which brings a sudden illumination: Now I know why I love Varric so much. He's basically Han Solo, in so many ways. HMMMMmmmm...

Varric kept me sane in DA2 when Kirkwall became so thick with fanatics you couldn't spit without hitting one.  Some of the fans here on the boards get pretty rabid in their defense of their side as well.

And Smuggler is my favorite class in that game too, I play her as a bit of a loon taking little seriously!  LOL the mouth on that one!

[sylvanaerie]

R2s Muse wrote...

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

LolaLei wrote...
Agreed. From what he says whilst caged in Kinloch Hold, he was stuck in there for weeks maybe even months, starved of food, water, sleep and lyrium. Anyone would react the same way after being tortured for a prolonged period of time and forced to watch their friends die in combat or twist and warp into fleshy abominations. His reaction was more than justifiable.

Wouldn't he die after like at most a week without water?

Perhaps. But I am thinking the demons kept him alive for the fun or hoping that he would finally let them 'inside'.

Good questions. I have no idea. I guess all we have to go on is Cullen's own muddied recollection, and the fact that Leliana points out he's been starved ("I can tell" Ah, Leliana, sometimes you frighten me, dear).  I wouldn't be surprised if the demons would use their hocus  pocus to try to get what they want.

Well, he does admit to his little crush on the Surana/Amell here, saying they've been torturing him with her face.  Poor kid.

[Bekkael]

@OP The easiest way to deal with companions you dislike is just to leave them out of your party when you can. That's what I do, and honestly, it isn't difficult.

I'll gladly take all the Cullen you don't want.

[EricHVela]

I'd like to convince Cullen to be sympathetic to mages in one play-through and remind him of the horrors he faced in Ferelden to make him hate mages in another play-through and make him adopt a puppy that my protagonist has to kill later to make him sympathetic to people infected with measles in another play-through.

There's such a foundation there with Cullen to make an interesting companion from him. He's on the verge of a landmark in his personal growth at the end of the second Dragon Age and how that happens can be up to the protagonist. Seriously. Let's have the option to mess with Cullen's head.

EDIT: I jest, but only slightly. I think that Cullen really does provide an interesting story opportunity.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 27 septembre 2012 - 04:43 .

[terdferguson123]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

In this crazy Mage V Templar thing, I found myself hating both groups. I remember wishing I could play someone who was openly judgmental of both of them.

I reminds me of my thoughts when these same arguments go around on Star Wars forums. "Are Sith really evil?", "Jedi are the real villains", etc, etc. I just chuckle to myself, and think, "Man, I'm glad I prefer Han Solo over all those silly Jedi and Sith".

Which brings a sudden illumination: Now I know why I love Varric so much. He's basically Han Solo, in so many ways. HMMMMmmmm...

Varric kept me sane in DA2 when Kirkwall became so thick with fanatics you couldn't spit without hitting one.  Some of the fans here on the boards get pretty rabid in their defense of their side as well.

And Smuggler is my favorite class in that game too, I play her as a bit of a loon taking little seriously!  LOL the mouth on that one!

Yeah, Varric said it best when Hawke asked his opinion on Anders after the chantry incident: "I think I am sick of both Mages and Templars." It's too bad we didn't get a Varric option to just walk out. It's slightly dissapointing becuase up till that point, many options regarding mages and templars had a middle choice that was to either calm them down, or tell them they are both wrong.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 27 septembre 2012 - 05:24 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

The LAST thing I want is for the player to mold Cullen to his wishes.

No. The guy shoud be himself and think for himsself, and damn the Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor.

[panamakira]

That's an interesting and difficult point. I can see how having Cullen will be important to advancing the story, kind of like Anders, but it would be really cool if BW gave players the choice to not recruit certain party members. That way if they don't have a particular party member with them at a certain point in the story there would be a setback to that because the player chose not to recruit "x" party member. It would add more variation to playing the story.

-Team Cullen

[Tajerio]

I don't want Cullen around because I really dislike the voice acting for him. Combine that with his fanaticism, and he was just too much.

[LobselVith8]

VampOrchid wrote...

Ugh, I swore I wasn't going to post in here...but look at me...sucked into to this vortex...

The
point of not liking him because of him wanting to kill mages, which
honestly, IMO I don't think he wanted to do...but whatever.

I thought the argument was about Cullen participating in Meredith's Right of Annulment, and only stopping her when she specifically targetted Hawke, rather than the millions of people who weren't responsible for Anders' actions?

VampOrchid wrote...

Lets just say that's what he wanted. To kill almost all mages. After playing DA2, even though I play a mage almost everytime...It's getting rather hard to defend them, mages, anymore. Almost every one of them are running around being all blood magicky and evil.

I don't think anyone would contest that the writers depicted the mages and the templars as one-dimensional caricatures, for the most part.

VampOrchid wrote...

"I'm depressed because my wife is dead. I know, I'll cut up a bunch of women and make a new one!"

"Templars want to kill us all, I know! I'll turn into a giant monster using blood magic, that'll prove them their ideals were wrong."

"Some people in the chantry and tower treated me bad! Oooh I know, I will blow up a Chantry in a major city, even though there might be townsfolk and other innocents in there. That'll show everyone that mages are good."

"I'm an evil blood mage."

"I'm a blood mage..."

"I'm a blood mage trying to unlock the powers of an evil mirror..."

You have a mage like Decimus thinking that Merrill is a templar, Tahrone looking like a crack addict and sounding like a B-movie lunatic, and Orsino losing his mind because Hawke defeated a wave of templars. I would have preferred the mages and templars to be depicted as three-dimensional characters, with flaws and strengths given for both arguments. Fans tend to give better arguments for both sides of the argument than the writers ever did in Dragon Age II.

As for Merrill, though, I respectfully disagree. The Eluvian wasn't evil; it was previously corrupted by darkspawn taint, and this was removed by Merrill. It's a doorway beyond this world, and beyond the Fade. Merrill extrapolated information from the shard, and studied the lore about the Eluvian. I respected Merrill being proactive in trying to do something about the plight of the People, rather than being passive and doing nothing.

VampOrchid wrote...

OMG the list goes on and on. So really in the end...My Hawke was all, wtf was I fighting for again?

So really, hating Cullen, because you say he wants mages dead...in the end would you blame him? LOL

Regardless, I still like him.

But I'm sure, just like in previous games there will be an option to get him to either leave the group, or just not do his quests. That's part of having choices in an RPG after all.

I think people would prefer having the choice to not accept certain companions, like we could in Origins. It's a little odd to have a rogue mage helping a pro-templar protagonist, or a templar and a Seeker helping a pro-mage protagonist when their motives, morals, and values completely conflict with one another.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 27 septembre 2012 - 07:52 .

[Shadow Fox]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

GodWood wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
The Warden can even express it's a "prison" and an "oppressive place."

You keep using this example as if it has any weight. All that shows is the Warden can have this as an opinion. (S)he can also have no issue with it.

Or see it as a safe haven from the world but don't bother it's like talking to a brick wall when it comes to him.

I used that quote to address that Dragon Age invites the player to form views on a myriad of issues, including the templars. However, since you need to make a snide remark every time you see one of my posts because you're a troll, I suppose there's no point in addressing that you completely missed my point.

It's because I tried to debate with you in the past and got sick of hearing "the Templars are EVULZ and every time a mage does evil stuff it's the Templars fault" from you and Xilizhra and evertime the subjet's brought up with you two iy devoles into a shouting match between the Templar supporters and mage supporters so forgive me if my tolerance of you is low right now.

[The Elder King]

LobselVith8 wrote...

VampOrchid wrote...

Ugh, I swore I wasn't going to post in here...but look at me...sucked into to this vortex...

The
point of not liking him because of him wanting to kill mages, which
honestly, IMO I don't think he wanted to do...but whatever.

I thought the argument was about Cullen participating in Meredith's Right of Annulment, and only stopping her when she specifically targetted Hawke, rather than the millions of people who weren't responsible for Anders' actions?

Thousands or hundreds would've been more accurate. I doubt that there'll be millions of people in the entire Kirkwall, and the mages are only a part of Kirkwall's population.

[CuriousArtemis]

When I hate a character, it is because s/he is poorly written... not because I don't agree with what s/he stands for....

[SamaraDraven]

Cullen stands up to Meredith before she threatens Hawke when he speaks on behalf of the mages who surrendered. Up to that point, the annulment might have seemed necessary to even a moderate templar because there were abominations and blood mages running through Kirkwall. When those three surrender, it becomes clear that not all mages are lost, unlike in Kinloch Hold where the mages were marched into Uldred's special room and forcibly made into monsters. When Cullen objects to killing those mages, Meredith's answer sounded a lot like she and Cullen had had that discussion before. It's an inference on my part, of course, but it made it seem like he'd been trying to talk Meredith down, like he might have wanted a better solution. All in all, I think whether or not he was going along with Meredith blindly or begrudgingly is open to interpretation. The game was written that way to support the player's choice. In the end, he still rebels against his superior. He has a limit. I wonder how that might be explored in the next story.

[LobselVith8]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

It's because I tried to debate with you in the past and got sick of hearing "the Templars are EVULZ and every time a mage does evil stuff it's the Templars fault" from you and Xilizhra

I don't argue that all templars are evil. I don't believe that people are evil simply for being templars. I applauded how Origins depicted the dichotomy between the mages and templars in an adult fashion, especially in giving us fleshed out characters for both sides. In Origins, we had Ser Bryant, the Lothering templars, Ser Otto, and Knight-Commander Greagoir as examples of good people who were templars. That doesn't change the fact that I disagree with what the Chantry and the templars do, and I believe that mages deserve their autonomy from the Chantry and the templars.

You're welcome to disagree, of course. Everyone has a different opinion on the matter. In Dragon Age II, I thought it was a waste to depict mages and templars as little more than cartoons. Both sides deserve to have fleshed out characters, without vilifying the other. New Vegas had the NCR, Mr. House, and the Independent route provide an outcome with benefits and losses, with none of the results being perfect. Skyrim had the Stormcloaks and the Legion being lead by two imperfect leaders who wanted what was best for Skyrim, and neither leader turned into a monster, even if he became your antagonist. I think this is what should have been done with both Meredith and Orsino in Dragon Age II.

I don't think templars are inherently evil; I disagree with them (and the Chantry of Andraste). Considering the end result, I think their actions can be deplorable and monstrous, such as with the tranquil mages and preaching how mages are "cursed" to their religious followers. I argue against the Chantry controlled Circles because I don't think they are the solution, but that doesn't mean I disagree with the Circles of Magi.

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

and evertime the subjet's brought up with you two iy devoles into a shouting match between the Templar supporters and mage supporters so forgive me if my tolerance of you is low right now.

People disagree all the time. It's only natural that people will disagree about a topic they feel passionately about, such as the divide between people who agree with the position of the templars, and people who side with the argument of the mages.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 27 septembre 2012 - 08:29 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I thought the argument was about Cullen participating in Meredith's Right of Annulment, and only stopping her when she specifically targetted Hawke, rather than the millions of people who weren't responsible for Anders' actions?

Wut?
What millions? I wasn't aware Kirkwall had that many mages.


Also, mage insanity adn blood magic is on the rise, abominations trying to infiltrate the Order and then a crazed mage blows up the Chantry... Of cours,e he will deny that the other mages knew or planned this with him, but would you honestly trust him?

The Circle is lost is not a illogical conclusion. Why bother wasting all that time, effort and lives just to save a few mages who might still be salvagable?
Of course, that's not what Meredith said.
Her reasons were simply "the people will demand blood!".. and then she leaves you to decide Anders faith... WUT???
The stupid in the end is over 9000.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Uhm she only leaves you to decide Anders' fate if you already sided with the Templars, in which case she probably expected you to kill him. She merely let Hawke do it, since Anders was his companion in the first place.

[Atalanta]

It took me a really long time to even figure out who this Cullen person was. I initially thought it was some Twilight thing. Like, a lot of you wanted Edward Cullen as a character or something ... I literally did not remember Cullen as a character from the previous games until I went and Youtube'd it. *shrug*

I wouldn't mind him as a companion I guess, as long as he is well-written gets a strong personality. I'd also like to be able to kill him off if it makes sense in the plot, though. Heh.

[RedWulfi]

Atalanta wrote...

It took me a really long time to even figure out who this Cullen person was. I initially thought it was some Twilight thing. Like, a lot of you wanted Edward Cullen as a character or something ... I literally did not remember Cullen as a character from the previous games until I went and Youtube'd it. *shrug*

I wouldn't mind him as a companion I guess, as long as he is well-written gets a strong personality. I'd also like to be able to kill him off if it makes sense in the plot, though. Heh.

I don't think Ive facepalmed so hard before.
Ouch.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm going to apply the Project Eternity design standard here and say that all companions should be optional.

[Robhuzz]

You could send away nearly every companion in DAO if you wished could you not? Shouldn't be a problem to put a system like that in DA3.

I'm going to apply the Project Eternity design standard here and say that all companions should be optional.

That's the only proper design standard. Don't like a certain character? Don't take him or her with you. Problem solved and BSN will see a lot less character hate threads.   

Modifié par Robhuzz, 28 septembre 2012 - 08:51 .

[Atalanta]

AndersIsLush wrote...
I don't think Ive facepalmed so hard before.
Ouch.

What, is it that unbelievable that I didn't notice him? Or that I thought it might be a Twilight thing? Because BSN, man.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Atalanta wrote...

AndersIsLush wrote...
I don't think Ive facepalmed so hard before.
Ouch.

What, is it that unbelievable that I didn't notice him? Or that I thought it might be a Twilight thing? Because BSN, man.

Touche.

[Pedrak]

Atalanta wrote...

AndersIsLush wrote...
I don't think Ive facepalmed so hard before.
Ouch.

What, is it that unbelievable that I didn't notice him?

Well, if it conforts you I remembered him only vaguely and I was not aware he had a big fanbase. I also have no strong reactions one way or another about him being in the party. I guess he just didn't register with me in any major way.