57 réponses à ce sujet

[silentassassin264]

Nashimura wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

Is this confirmed that the new PC will be an Inquisitor? Because if so, it seems like the railroading the PC into a specific faction happens to early. Do not want ;(

Like becoming a Warden?

Exactly my thoughts. 

A bit of focus is a good thing...all games have railroading, Origins railroaded you into the wardens, ME1 into specters, ME 2 into Cerberus. DA2 lacked focus but still railroaded you into the deep roads and other things to progress the story. Its not railroading people hate, its only when they feel the option they are being forced into is a bad idea (Like Cerberus)

Well you see the railroading into a faction is not a problem if done right.  If the faction is neutral like the Wardens then no one complains because it is not you are being forced to agree with some dogma that you disagree with.  Afterall, the Wardens just represented "Darkspawn are bad" and unless you were completely nihilistic you would have to agree with that.  Cerberus in ME2 forced you to work with a more loaded group but it also gave you the option to disapprove.  You can tell the Illusive Man off every chance you get and make sure everyone on the SR2 knew they were serving you and this was your mission.  The culmination of the game if you played paragon was essentially flipping off the Illusive Man and taking a bunch of his stuff (and because of terrible writing it was retconned that you did this even if renegade in ME3...).  You are forced to work with Cerberus because they are the only ones doing something about the imminent threat since they are immune to politics but you are not forced to agree with with Cerberus values.  In fact the game actively encourages you to butt heads with the Illusive Man.  

If DA3 railroads you into the Inquisition which by the lore is most definitely not a neutral faction, they would have to do something like ME2 and Cerberus and let you rebel for it to be fair.  If they try and make it like the Wardens and pretend that it is neutral it will likely rub people the wrong way and deservedly so.    

[Nashimura]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Nashimura wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

Is this confirmed that the new PC will be an Inquisitor? Because if so, it seems like the railroading the PC into a specific faction happens to early. Do not want ;(

Like becoming a Warden?

Exactly my thoughts.

A bit of focus is a good thing...all games have railroading, Origins railroaded you into the wardens, ME1 into specters, ME 2 into Cerberus. DA2 lacked focus but still railroaded you into the deep roads and other things to progress the story. Its not railroading people hate, its only when they feel the option they are being forced into is a bad idea (Like Cerberus)

Well you see the railroading into a faction is not a problem if done right. If the faction is neutral like the Wardens then no one complains because it is not you are being forced to agree with some dogma that you disagree with. Afterall, the Wardens just represented "Darkspawn are bad" and unless you were completely nihilistic you would have to agree with that. Cerberus in ME2 forced you to work with a more loaded group but it also gave you the option to disapprove. You can tell the Illusive Man off every chance you get and make sure everyone on the SR2 knew they were serving you and this was your mission. The culmination of the game if you played paragon was essentially flipping off the Illusive Man and taking a bunch of his stuff (and because of terrible writing it was retconned that you did this even if renegade in ME3...). You are forced to work with Cerberus because they are the only ones doing something about the imminent threat since they are immune to politics but you are not forced to agree with with Cerberus values. In fact the game actively encourages you to butt heads with the Illusive Man.

If DA3 railroads you into the Inquisition which by the lore is most definitely not a neutral faction, they would have to do something like ME2 and Cerberus and let you rebel for it to be fair. If they try and make it like the Wardens and pretend that it is neutral it will likely rub people the wrong way and deservedly so.

Yea, i quickly saw your other post just as i submitted mine, did not know the Inquisition even had lore - obviously the game is unwritten they might be able to justify the whole thing without it feeling contrived.

I still disagree that they pulled off the Cerberus thing though, without wanting to derail the thread i dont really see what Cerberus added to Shepard, the whole killing Shepard and the ship was silly to start with and i dont see what you do in the game that is aided by doing it while connected with Cerberus...the "Only cerberus were doing anything" argument always felt a little weak to me, all Cerberus did send you into traps and for no reason whatsoever not tell you....Shepard could of built a team and gone into the omega rely without cerberus.

Modifié par Nashimura, 26 septembre 2012 - 04:20 .

[LolaLei]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

What I wanna know is why doesn't she know where her lover is? That's not good relationship communication Leliana!

Because if there's one thing Leliana is about, it's healthy relationships.

She may not know where the Warden is, but she knows exactly where all their eyelashes are.

... In a jar? :-S

[Cutlass Jack]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Well you see the railroading into a faction is not a problem if done right.  If the faction is neutral like the Wardens then no one complains because it is not you are being forced to agree with some dogma that you disagree with.  Afterall, the Wardens just represented "Darkspawn are bad" and unless you were completely nihilistic you would have to agree with that.  Cerberus in ME2 forced you to work with a more loaded group but it also gave you the option to disapprove.  You can tell the Illusive Man off every chance you get and make sure everyone on the SR2 knew they were serving you and this was your mission.  The culmination of the game if you played paragon was essentially flipping off the Illusive Man and taking a bunch of his stuff (and because of terrible writing it was retconned that you did this even if renegade in ME3...).  You are forced to work with Cerberus because they are the only ones doing something about the imminent threat since they are immune to politics but you are not forced to agree with with Cerberus values.  In fact the game actively encourages you to butt heads with the Illusive Man.  

If DA3 railroads you into the Inquisition which by the lore is most definitely not a neutral faction, they would have to do something like ME2 and Cerberus and let you rebel for it to be fair.  If they try and make it like the Wardens and pretend that it is neutral it will likely rub people the wrong way and deservedly so.    

I wouldn't say no one complains about being a Warden. My chief complaint about DAO was exactly how I got railroaded into the whole warden thing. Especially since my first run on it was the Human noble. I was pretty much forced to leave my mother to die and join the wardens no matter how many times I told everyone to go screw themselves. The railroading was incredibly obvious and forced.

Which is one of the reasons I preferred DA2. Being the Champion of Kirkwall wasn't a career or faction choice. It was just an honorific for showing up once at the right time.

But I do agree wholeheartedly about being able to rebel at every opportunity. Letting the player have some feeling of control over their circumstances surrounding their railroading is key.

[Beerfish]

She's a stinking traitor to the order, the chantry and all the things she 'held dear'. I hope she gets run through or executed by the Templars for her back stabbing traitorous ways. Maybe Andraste will have a little chin wag with her again to set her straight.

[deuce985]

Maria Caliban wrote...

She's a Cylon.

Well, if she's anything like Tricia Helfer, that's one Cylon I can get behind.

Come to think of it...maybe she is a Cylon. Leliana seems to battle with her identity constantly. She doesn't really know who she is and you can help her find herself. You can even hardened her in DAO. Hmm. Did I romance a Cylon? She does sing too...I wonder if she hears the Cylon song!?

She's in the Chantry and commonly refers to God.

Maybe this explains why you can't kill her. She's a copy! Ha! Bioware, you sly foxes making a reference to Battlestar Galactica.

The next time I see a thread asking why can't they kill Leliana off, I'm going to answer with she's a Cylon copy. That's the only logical explanation.

Modifié par deuce985, 26 septembre 2012 - 06:04 .

[Hellkite]

Well all that we know is ...

The Inquisition was a group of people who, following the First Blight, rose up to defend Thedas from the dangers of magic and heretics. The Inquisition later joined with the Chantry and became the Seekers of Truth and the Templar Order. under that The Nevarran Accord  the Inquisition agreed to lower its banner and submit to the authority of the Chantry.

But given the letter that  Lord Seeker Lambert van Reeves submitted a letter to the Chantry  -

____


Most Holy,

The Seekers are well aware of the part you played in the rebellion. You call me to the Grand Cathedral in the middle of the night on “urgent” business only to speak of trivial matters? And then, when I return to the White Spire, I discover chaos . . . and one of your agents in the midst of the apostates.

Did you think I would not notice? Did you believe yourself above repercussions for such acts? It was a dark day when the Chantry placed such an incapable woman upon the Sunburst Throne. I will not stand idle and watch you destroy what ages of tradition and righteousness have built.

In the twentieth year of the Divine Age, the Nevarran Accord was signed. The Seekers of Truth lowered our banner and agreed to serve as the Chantry’s right hand, and together we created the Circle of magi. With the Circle no more, I hereby declare the Accord null and void. Neither the Seekers of Truth nor the Templar Order recognize Chantry authority, and instead we will perform the Maker’s work as it was meant to be done, as we see fit.

Signed this day on the fortieth year of the Dragon Age,
Lord Seeker Lambert van Reeves

____

The Agent that he was refering to was Leliana

So she is agent of the Divine Justinia V not of The Inquisition or it branches Seekers of Truth or the Templar Order

Modifié par Hellkite, 26 septembre 2012 - 05:21 .

[Vexille]

I'm still upset by the whole Lelianna thing...

Lelianna meeting the Warden again

Warden: Lelianna?! I killed you!
Lelianna: You only wounded me! A mere Scratch!
Warden :I CUT YOUR HEAD OFF!
Lelianna: ... I got better...


Seriously, hand waving Lelianna alive was so incredibly lame

[Rawgrim]

Vexille wrote...

I'm still upset by the whole Lelianna thing...

Lelianna meeting the Warden again

Warden: Lelianna?! I killed you!
Lelianna: You only wounded me! A mere Scratch!
Warden :I CUT YOUR HEAD OFF!
Lelianna: ... I got better...


Seriously, hand waving Lelianna alive was so incredibly lame

I know. I never side with the Cult anyomore, just because I know its the "wrong choice" storywise.Same goes for killing Anders in Awakening.

[Nashimura]

Rawgrim wrote...

Vexille wrote...

I'm still upset by the whole Lelianna thing...

Lelianna meeting the Warden again

Warden: Lelianna?! I killed you!
Lelianna: You only wounded me! A mere Scratch!
Warden :I CUT YOUR HEAD OFF!
Lelianna: ... I got better...


Seriously, hand waving Lelianna alive was so incredibly lame

I know. I never side with the Cult anyomore, just because I know its the "wrong choice" storywise.Same goes for killing Anders in Awakening.

I can justify Anders with the whole demon thing - but yea Lelianna was a bad one, I wish they never made it possible...obviously they liked Lelianna after the game was released a lot more than when she was on paper. I suspect she will play a big part in 3. 

[septembervirgin]

The entire set of inconsistencies go down easier with the spoonful of questionable sugar: know that the entire Dragon Age series is a harsh parody of CRPG. Either that, or Thedas is just a relatively "solid" portion of the Fade.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Vexille wrote...

I'm still upset by the whole Lelianna thing...

Lelianna meeting the Warden again

Warden: Lelianna?! I killed you!
Lelianna: You only wounded me! A mere Scratch!
Warden :I CUT YOUR HEAD OFF!
Lelianna: ... You do relaise that was just a stock combat animation, right? It don't count..

FIXORED

[RogueWriter3201]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

What I wanna know is why doesn't she know where her lover is? That's not good relationship communication Leliana!

Because if there's one thing Leliana is about, it's healthy relationships.

She may not know where the Warden is, but she knows exactly where all their eyelashes are.

(*Comical Wah-Wah*) 

[Wulfram]

Could you use a jar of eyelashes as a phylactery?

[Aldandil]

deuce985 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

She's a Cylon.

Well, if she's anything like Tricia Helfer, that's one Cylon I can get behind.

Come to think of it...maybe she is a Cylon. Leliana seems to battle with her identity constantly. She doesn't really know who she is and you can help her find herself. You can even hardened her in DAO. Hmm. Did I romance a Cylon? She does sing too...I wonder if she hears the Cylon song!?

She's in the Chantry and commonly refers to God.

Maybe this explains why you can't kill her. She's a copy! Ha! Bioware, you sly foxes making a reference to Battlestar Galactica.

The next time I see a thread asking why can't they kill Leliana off, I'm going to answer with she's a Cylon copy. That's the only logical explanation.

Didn't her singing sound suspiciously similar to "All along the watchtower"?


Well, you know, without the electrical guitar and all medieval?


Maybe not...

[whykikyouwhy]

Aldandil wrote...

Didn't her singing sound suspiciously similar to "All along the watchtower"?

And now we can draw some parallels between the Final Five and the references to lyrium "singing."

To the OP...maybe Leliana's just a free agent. Or a friend of Red Jenny.

[Nerdage]

Wulfram wrote...

Could you use a jar of eyelashes as a phylactery?

Only if they're covered in blood...


Umm... I think I know what happened to the warden... 

[fchopin]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

What I wanna know is why doesn't she know where her lover is? That's not good relationship communication Leliana!

We don’t know who the lover is, the warden is infected and turned into a monster so she has a new lover, don’t know if it’s a guy or girl but maybe our character has a chance with her.

[revan11exile]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

What I wanna know is why doesn't she know where her lover is? That's not good relationship communication Leliana!

Because if there's one thing Leliana is about, it's healthy relationships.

She may not know where the Warden is, but she knows exactly where all their eyelashes are.

Strange you would think Leliana would know were her lover(The Warden)is i thought my Warden had a good relationship with her:crying: 

[revan11exile]

nerdage wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Could you use a jar of eyelashes as a phylactery?

Only if they're covered in blood...


Umm... I think I know what happened to the warden... 

 she would never do such a thing

[marshalleck]

Did she get her head reattached by that crazy guy in Kirkwall?

[revan11exile]

marshalleck wrote...

Did she get her head reattached by that crazy guy in Kirkwall?

I see what you did there:lol:because the Warden can get a decaption kill off her.And why do most people have an urge to kill Leliana i never killed her?

[SafetyShattered]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

What I wanna know is why doesn't she know where her lover is? That's not good relationship communication Leliana!

Because if there's one thing Leliana is about, it's healthy relationships.

She may not know where the Warden is, but she knows exactly where all their eyelashes are.

......that was just cruel. I want my Lely....

[Icinix]

revan11exile wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Did she get her head reattached by that crazy guy in Kirkwall?

I see what you did there:lol:because the Warden can get a decaption kill off her.And why do most people have an urge to kill Leliana i never killed her?

Because Morrigan approves.