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Please Bioware, No 'Acts' for Inquisition Story


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#26
upsettingshorts

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Edit: Quoting due to page flip:

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

The "Acts" as they were in DA:O were non-linear, were in different locations and allowed players to complete them as they wished, even leaving and returning later.


I wouldn't call what DA:O had acts per se.

They were more like tenuously linked* theme parks.  

*by the Grey Warden treaties 

 

Not to mention, upon going back, there was little progression. Sure, the Circle Tower and Orzammar had a couple linked quests, and there was some amusing town crier dialogue in the latter but for the most part once you pulled down the flag at the end of a particular zone you were done there. There wasn't a convincing sense of time having passed since you left.

But there's no reason to expect that given how DA:O works. DA2 on the other hand presents opportunities for that kind of thing but doesn't exploit it terribly often.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 septembre 2012 - 12:33 .


#27
hexaligned

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I would say DAO had acts as well, act1: Origin+Ostagar, Act2: gathering treaties, Act3: Landsmeet/Invasion of Denerim.
There just wasn't 2-3 year gaps in between them, which is what some people seem to really not like. Personally, that's one of the few things in DA2 that didn't irk me.

#28
upsettingshorts

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relhart wrote...

I would say DAO had acts as well, act1: Origin+Ostagar, Act2: gathering treaties, Act3: Landsmeet/Invasion of Denerim.
There just wasn't 2-3 year gaps in between them, which is what some people seem to really not like. Personally, that's one of the few things in DA2 that didn't irk me.


I considered putting that in the post, but DA:O never really referred to them as such, and when you put it that way "Act 2" is pretty much the entire game.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 septembre 2012 - 12:34 .


#29
TsaiMeLemoni

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I was fine with the idea of acts, but like others I just feel like it could have been implemented better.

#30
Fredward

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As long as they squeeze in some more of those art-thingies they had between the acts I don't really care if we don't have any. 'Course I also don't care if we DO have acts. Man I'm easy to please.

#31
Plaintiff

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

relhart wrote...

I would say DAO had acts as well, act1: Origin+Ostagar, Act2: gathering treaties, Act3: Landsmeet/Invasion of Denerim.
There just wasn't 2-3 year gaps in between them, which is what some people seem to really not like. Personally, that's one of the few things in DA2 that didn't irk me.


I considered putting that in the post, but DA:O never really referred to them as such, and when you put it that way "Act 2" is pretty much the entire game.  

If you subscribe to the 'three act method' of story structure, then it's usual for the second act to make up the bulk of any story. There's no rule that says the acts have to all be of equal length.

I don't think DA2 ever refers to the three sections as 'acts' either, at least not in-game.

#32
Overlord_Mephist

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I enjoyed the acts/timeskips in DA2, it made it feel far more immersive to me. It was like you were actually doing something and seeing the story progress in front of you. I liked both games but I'd prefer DA3 to have more of a DA2 feel.

#33
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*

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Did not have a problem with the fact that there were acts because the game had a timespan of about 7 years. The way they were done however fellt somewhat incomplete, messy and abrupt.

Combination of different styles to fill up the time that passed to start the next act did not feel quite right imho. Really liked the 'storybook' way of telling what happened in the years that led to the next storyline. Posted Image

#34
CELL55

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I agree. While I am glad that Bioware tried something new, I don't feel like it turned out too well. Da2's story felt way too disjointed, IMO. They tried something different, it didn't work that great, time to try something else.

#35
Renmiri1

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What ?

No I loved acts.. Made replay much quicker and easier!

#36
Cutlass Jack

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Acts and Time Jumps are not the same thing. Acts are fine so long as the game is incredibly clear and warns you to clean up your journal before moving forward. DA2 did this just fine. If you left something undone, you really weren't paying attention to the big warnings in the dialogue.

Timejumps are also fine...if you have enough development time to pull off things looking substantially different after the jump. That was the main issue with DA2. The jumps would have been incredible if they had time to do them convincingly. Visual changes in the town, in your companions, etc. Doubly so if those changes reflected big decisions you made at the end of each act.

With the uncomfortably short development time DA2 had, they should have restricted them to very minor timejumps. a month or two tops.

DA2 had alot of great ideas at the heart of it. However its main fault was not having enough development time to really sell those ideas properly.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 26 septembre 2012 - 02:09 .


#37
rolson00

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yeah no acts i agree

#38
Adanu

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I loved the concept of acts, but not the execution DA2 did. If you're going to pass time, do it in a way that feels natural, as well as give us a bit of control over what our PC does in the passing time.

#39
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Cutlass Jack wrote...

Acts and Time Jumps are not the same thing. Acts are fine so long as the game is incredibly clear and warns you to clean up your journal before moving forward. DA2 did this just fine. If you left something undone, you really weren't paying attention to the big warnings in the dialogue.

Timejumps are also fine...if you have enough development time to pull off things looking substantially different after the jump. That was the main issue with DA2. The jumps would have been incredible if they had time to do them convincingly. Visual changes in the town, in your companions, etc. Doubly so if those changes reflected big decisions you made at the end of each act.

With the uncomfortably short development time DA2 had, they should have restricted them to very minor timejumps. a month or two tops.

DA2 had alot of great ideas at the heart of it. However its main fault was not having enough development time to really sell those ideas properly.


Thanks Jack for phrasing my thoughts so perfectly Posted Image.

The setup of the game was really good, even the fact that most of the story took place in Kirkwall. The problem however was the scenery and the people did not change. Biggest dissapointment for me was that the decisions made did not reflect properly at the beginning of each act in the way that they could really change the course of the game. Sometimes it even fellt as if things were just cut out/left out.

#40
upsettingshorts

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sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Sometimes it even fellt as if things were just cut out/left out.


That's because they were, as BioWare only had 11 months to make it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 septembre 2012 - 02:24 .


#41
Knight of Dane

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

It's not a writers job to assume that we can fill out their holes.

It's a writers job to provide a story and a plot that doesn't leave big open holes open for interpretation. I have a fine imagination, but I shouldn't find myself in a position where I need to use it to do a writers job for them.


...are you new to the concept of roleplaying?  Ambiguity is your playground, go nuts.  Believe me there would be just as many (more?) people upset if those gaps were filled with on-rails, set-in-stone, potentially character breaking events.  Maybe different people, but just as loud.  

Knight of Dane wrote...

There is no reason given other than "Years passed while Anders plotted his scemes and Meredith was evul" for the time lapses.


This is where your imagination was supposed to come in.  You can come up with whatever you want in the intervening years as long as it isn't explicitly contradicted by the events of the game.  Is it the game's fault if it provides you a mostly blank canvas and you'd rather not paint anything?  Sort of, I suppose.  But it would be dishonest to claim the canvas isn't supposed to be there.

Knight of Dane wrote... 

If the acts had been used to make Hawke seem older, more experienced or just any kind of development it would be fine. But Hawke stays in his/her home. Isabela is still in the Hanging Man and Merrill still sits around her mirror.


I agree, simplifications aside, the acts would have been better had there been more reactivity, as I hoped there would be in my pre-launch post I linked. 

I'm not new to roleplaying or writing, I've been doing both actively since my early teens and am currently studying writing and games design.

And of course there would be just as many angry with rail roads, that's not what I'm demanding either, I'm demanding no acts at all, so that we, the players, can get to create our experiences ourselves.

As mentioned, the acts could have worked, but they didn't. So don't attempt them again. It can be as easy a way to progress stories as your suicidal shot. It needs to be done rigth and it isn't.

We need to know why the time skips are there. We need to be able to decide why when it's a RPG too. It could be as simple as Varric asking "So Hawkey, whatta ya gonna do nao?" at the end of act 1. You get three choises: "Imma go home and care for ma family," "Imma go adventurin'" or "Imma go get moar power and £$£$£$!"

Option one gives a small story that tells how Bethany/Carver gets handled, Hawke and Leandra perhaps go back to Ferelden for a time trying to find out if any of your cousins are still alive. Option 2 gives a small story telling of how you and your companions went on a trip to Antiva seeking out another treasure or something. In the third Hawke is seen going to Denerim where he gets, or tries to get, a audience with the king or queen.

Not because they need to be utterly important but just for the sake of giving the player a reason as to why so much time goes by without anything happening. The rest can then be up to the player to decide.
"Just because" is always a stab in the chest of the customers inteligence. Writers are supposed to tell us how and why.

#42
mopotter

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AdmiralDavidAnderson wrote...

Am I the only one that didn't like the fact Dragon Age 2 was split into Act 1, 2, 3. I didn't like that quests wouldn't carry over and that there was years in gaps between the story. I'd just like one long story with no acts please - Without years between different quests.

This is just my opinion though - I don't know if others agree with me.

Now with a poll social.bioware.com/3870366/polls/39819/


I liked the idea of it, a game spanning years was an interesting concept.  I don't think it worked out, and would prefer not to see it in the next game.  So, I agree.

#43
Knight of Dane

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Sometimes it even fellt as if things were just cut out/left out.


That's because they were, as BioWare only had 11 months to make it.

Indeed, here's hoping they are allow sufficient time to create a awesome game.
:wizard:

#44
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*

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Knight of Dane wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Sometimes it even fellt as if things were just cut out/left out.


That's because they were, as BioWare only had 11 months to make it.

Indeed, here's hoping they are allow sufficient time to create a awesome game.
:wizard:


Yeah...of course that must have been the case here..
Knight of Dane; crossing my fingers too on what you hope and needless loose ends and unfinished stories will be a long gone memory in DA3 Posted Image.

#45
Melca36

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I believe the developers have already said there would be no act system in Dragon Age 3 :wizard:

#46
AdmiralDavidAnderson

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Melca36 wrote...

I believe the developers have already said there would be no act system in Dragon Age 3 :wizard:


Source?

#47
Zeralos

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More fluidity to the story, i like it!
+1

#48
DarkKnightHolmes

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The time skip wasn't realistic enough in DA2 with almost everyone wearing the same clothes and looking like they aged no years.

#49
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Acts are fine, it's the random jumps in time that are jarring.

What the hell was my character doing the last x months/years? It creates a barrier between you and that Hawke person. It's not role-playing anymore.

#50
Applepie_Svk

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DA II was about power, but our protagonist never get one ...