55 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

Faerunner wrote...
No, I'm not metagaming on that one. Even before I knew how it ended (and to be honest, I didn't really care), I was not the least bit worried that Howe would get his because the Human Noble Origin constantly crams it down the player's throat that the Couslands are the single most well-liked, well-respected, well-loved, and well-off nobles in all of Fereldan. All you have to do is tell people your name and they act like Bryce was the Maker's Greatest Gift to Thedas since Andraste and treat you like the next Coming Of just because you're his kid. I figured all you had to do was tell other nobles and royals what happened to you and they would immediately take your side and restore the stolen lands and titles to the Cousland family's name (even if no one's there to reclaim it). The only reason you don't get revenge or recompense for a year is because of Loghain's stunt, but again: once he's gone, you're gold.

Well, that's mostly true, and it's very possible that the only reason you're not the son/daughter of a king is because Bryce supported Cailan in the Landsmeet after Maric's death, thus moving all the support for him to Cailan. There is no question that Bryce is very well-liked. I say mostly true though, because the nobility are still political animals and I don't remember any specific references to a Grey Warden's title and ownership rights after becoming a Warden. You can vow to get vengeance, but you can't vow to get Highever back. And as for the rest of the nobility, whether they had anything to do with it or not, there's blood in the water. You're bound to the Wardens now, not to Ferelden, and more importantly, they don't really know you. They love Bryce and Eleanor but you're an unknown.

On the bolded: Before the argument spiralled out of control, I was just commenting that I found it unbalanced that Alistair and Cousland go through the most similar emotional ordeal in the game (involving betrayal and slaughter of the people they love most thanks to a trusted ally), and yet on average I noticed way more HN Wardens belittle and deny Alistair than Wardens from other origins. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I always thought the Cousland of all people should understand what he's going through and why he wants revenge, and at least think twice before to denying his since they got theirs. I'll never make that mistake again.

There's a scene right before you enter Lothering when Alistair asks, "So, have you lost anyone close to you?" It's not that Alistair doesn't care that you're still in pain after whatever loss from whatever origin you're from, but having to remind him that yes, the last sight I had of my father was him bleeding to death on the cellar floor was kind of a slap in the face. I don't think that Alistair is uncaring, I just think that he believes that his pain is more important than your pain. There really is quite a bit of "it'll be all right, Alistair" with nothing similar coming from him. So, when it comes to the Landsmeet and his refusal to even consider the possibility that what's best for Ferelden and Thedas isn't what's best for him personally, I'm not all that surprised. He volunteered to join the Wardens, to defend everyone against the Blight, and to do whatever it takes to stop the Blight. He says they're not knights or heroes, but he does have an idealized version of what a Warden is. Maybe he doesn't really understand what he's promising when he promises it, but all the difficult decisions you've made together leading up to the Landsmeet should have given him more perspective.

[lambent templar]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

lambent templar wrote...

Its a shame that the recruit option is only limited to loghain, there are a lot of able warriors met on your travels.
Monica, hand on heart can you honestly say YOU would want howe in your team? The four pc's you take to slay the archdemon? Storyline aside its a game and he would not be a wise choice over a tank, healer and archer.
In terms of redemption there are more suitable candidates to force into servitude;jowan, loghain, jarvia, bhelen (if you side with harrowmount) hell even vaughns looking tempting to the body starved ranks of the wardens and ruck would make a nice kennel buddy for dog

Jowan not being in the party makes it poorer, too bad they had to cut him for time. Loghain is an option, and probably a safer one than Howe would be even without metagaming. Jarvia is convinced you are there to take her head regardless of how you play your Warden, so that's why she's a non-option. Bhelen would not care even if you did give him the choice, since he views you as an enemy and the throne you're giving Harrowmont as his.

Now, all of those are better choices than Howe (except Bhelen, and for largely the same reasons), too bad most of them are non-options. (As previously mentioned, Loghain is the exception.) Howe is in turn a better choice than Vaughn because he's more powerful in-game, and has actual combat experience story-line-wise. Not to mention that he shows some courage in attacking the Warden, who he knows full well has taken on an assassin he personally describes as "the very best." I don't recall Vaughn ever showing any courage. As for Ruck, I doubt he has much in the way of skills apart from smithing, which is helpful but not really conducive to shoving him at the spawn. I also don't know that he can really be saved at this point, or that he'd survive the Joining either way.

 Howe is not recruitable and fights just like Jarvia did, we are working on theory here.
Jarvias rogue skills would be useful as i hardly use Zevran and tend to focus on Leiliana being an archer, Granted Vaughn is a poor example but in my eyes they are cut from the same cloth- Greedy, self serving and treachorous.
Bhelen would make a great conversational addition to Oghren as would Branka, and her control rod would come in handy on more than one occasion.
As for Ruck, i can picture him painted green with a bright orange wig using electric attacks and somersaults, And if not a Blanka clone then a new kind of beserker who favours fist and tooth over weaponry.
I agree with your point regarding Jowan, Blood mage or not he could be extremelly useful and im sure he would adapt well as an arcane warrior.

[lambent templar]

Monica21 wrote...

Faerunner wrote...
No, I'm not metagaming on that one. Even before I knew how it ended (and to be honest, I didn't really care), I was not the least bit worried that Howe would get his because the Human Noble Origin constantly crams it down the player's throat that the Couslands are the single most well-liked, well-respected, well-loved, and well-off nobles in all of Fereldan. All you have to do is tell people your name and they act like Bryce was the Maker's Greatest Gift to Thedas since Andraste and treat you like the next Coming Of just because you're his kid. I figured all you had to do was tell other nobles and royals what happened to you and they would immediately take your side and restore the stolen lands and titles to the Cousland family's name (even if no one's there to reclaim it). The only reason you don't get revenge or recompense for a year is because of Loghain's stunt, but again: once he's gone, you're gold.

Well, that's mostly true, and it's very possible that the only reason you're not the son/daughter of a king is because Bryce supported Cailan in the Landsmeet after Maric's death, thus moving all the support for him to Cailan. There is no question that Bryce is very well-liked. I say mostly true though, because the nobility are still political animals and I don't remember any specific references to a Grey Warden's title and ownership rights after becoming a Warden. You can vow to get vengeance, but you can't vow to get Highever back. And as for the rest of the nobility, whether they had anything to do with it or not, there's blood in the water. You're bound to the Wardens now, not to Ferelden, and more importantly, they don't really know you. They love Bryce and Eleanor but you're an unknown.

On the bolded: Before the argument spiralled out of control, I was just commenting that I found it unbalanced that Alistair and Cousland go through the most similar emotional ordeal in the game (involving betrayal and slaughter of the people they love most thanks to a trusted ally), and yet on average I noticed way more HN Wardens belittle and deny Alistair than Wardens from other origins. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I always thought the Cousland of all people should understand what he's going through and why he wants revenge, and at least think twice before to denying his since they got theirs. I'll never make that mistake again.

There's a scene right before you enter Lothering when Alistair asks, "So, have you lost anyone close to you?" It's not that Alistair doesn't care that you're still in pain after whatever loss from whatever origin you're from, but having to remind him that yes, the last sight I had of my father was him bleeding to death on the cellar floor was kind of a slap in the face. I don't think that Alistair is uncaring, I just think that he believes that his pain is more important than your pain. There really is quite a bit of "it'll be all right, Alistair" with nothing similar coming from him. So, when it comes to the Landsmeet and his refusal to even consider the possibility that what's best for Ferelden and Thedas isn't what's best for him personally, I'm not all that surprised. He volunteered to join the Wardens, to defend everyone against the Blight, and to do whatever it takes to stop the Blight. He says they're not knights or heroes, but he does have an idealized version of what a Warden is. Maybe he doesn't really understand what he's promising when he promises it, but all the difficult decisions you've made together leading up to the Landsmeet should have given him more perspective.

It does come across that Alistairs grief seem more important than your HN's, Maybe because alistairs more vocal about his pain like a child thats just grazed their knee.
Alistair seems to need a lot of reassurance that everythings okay and that we will have revenge and that Duncan was such a good man to get him to like you, which relates back to an earlier point i made (maybe on another topic) that alistair has adopted me as a father figure which makes it 3 in total (eamon,duncan and myself) that guy needs medievil councelling.

[Fiacre]

Faerunner wrote...

All right, I see your point.

Thanks c: And I'm sorry if I came off as a bit agressive there, it wasn't my intention.


Re: Alistair's grief -- I find that question about having lost someone particularly bothersome if you talk with him after Lothering, and he at least knows that your brother may very well dead. And I'd be much more sympathetic if he simply hadn't known about Howe's attack rather than having forgotten about it. That's kind of not cool. But meh, I can see where he's coming from and I feel for him.

I just wish there were more options to tell him your opinion of Duncan, especially when he starts using him as an argument in the Landsmeet. Because Alistair. I hate the man. If the Darkspawn hadn't gotten him, I would have killed him after the Blight was over. Bringing him up is most certainly not going to change my mind. Seriously. (At least when I'm a HN. The others don't seem to have much reason to hate Duncan -- or, at least the characters of different origins that I played didn't. The way he recruits you during the HN origin, even if he does save you, is kind of... not nice.)

[filetemo]

If you save Loghain just because he's a decent fighter, you should try the joining ritual on the 30000 thiefs, mercs and warriors that you encountered beforehand

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

As was previously mentioned, they show no inclination to surrender. Also, there aren't thirty-thousand enemies in the game, much less human(oid) ones.

Edit: And the majority of them aren't liuetenant level either, so they're weaker than he is. (Which makes sense for storyline reasons too. He's spent basically his whole life at this.) And part of the reason Riordan suggests Loghain is he's a general of renown.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 03 octobre 2012 - 03:01 .