438 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering how ineffective the dialogue wheel was, why are they keeping it? The dialogue options almost never matched what Hawke actually said.

That was intenional it was meant to give a general idea of what Hawke would say.

The problem is when you don't even know what will be said, because the paraphrase has almost nothing to do with what Hawke verbally says. For example, when I chose for Hawke to say, "You're useless," he told Elthina, "Get out of my way!" The auto-lines also disconnected me from the protagonist.

I believe it was David Gaider who said a long time ago to sometimes think of it as the paraphrase being the first part of what is going to be said.

So in that case, "You're useless, get out of my way!"

A little dodgy.

[Lithuasil]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Please don't bring Skyrim into this. That game lacked so much..

Like what exactly?

Turn based combat and a ten-page character sheet.

[Linksys17]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Linksys17 wrote...

They wont because then they cant paraphrase with their silly dialogue wheel

Considering how ineffective the dialogue wheel was, why are they keeping it? The dialogue options almost never matched what Hawke actually said.

This is among one of many reasons why I despise this change from DAO
Even if they have to have their voiced protaganist can't I just see the real dialogue choices like in TW2?
I never really loved the dialogue wheel, I was ok with it in mass effect but in DA2 I really hated it.
I also don't need Bioware holding my hand telling me which option is good, witty or evil....
W/E its not like they will stop the're just gonna keep doing bs like this thank the maker/nine for Bethesda CDProjekt Obsidion ex... Bioware seems very lost.... RPG > HacknSlash & TPS.. take notes...
 

Modifié par Linksys17, 28 septembre 2012 - 02:39 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Icinix wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

It doesn't matter.  If that canon doesn't make it into the games - and it doesn't - then it's irrelevant with regard to gameplay.

Its starting to bleed through though.

Anderson, the Council, even Revan in TOR.

Not within a single game it doesn't.  And that's all that matters.

I don't see any value is having our gameplay choices carry through from one title to the next unless we're playing the same protagonist.  And outside of ME (which I think abandoned all pretense of being a roleplaying game with ME2), we don't.

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

That was intenional it was meant to give a general idea of what Hawke would say.

It was intentionally obfuscatory, so we wouldn't be able to choose the line most appropriate for our character design?

I doubt BioWare would admit that.

LPPrince wrote...

It worked for a game like Skyrim though, because the game wasn't trying to be as cinematic as possible, nor were
there any camera cuts to the Dragonborn's face to see his/her reactions to something said or done.

Skyrim is a totally different game than the Dragon Age titles. They're still RPGs, but completely different kinds of them. I liked the lack of voice in DAO though.

They're both supposed to be roleplaying games.  Either you get to control you character's personality, or you don't.

And in DA2, you don't.

LPPrince wrote...

I believe it was David Gaider who said a long time ago to sometimes think of it as the paraphrase being the first part of what is going to be said.

That wasn't David, but it didn't help regardless.

Knowing what will be said first doesn't help if you don't know what's going to come next.  If I select the paraphrase, "You're useless," I'm expecting either an insult of a denigration of someone's competence.  "Get out of my way!" is neither of those things; that's a command.  I didn't select a command.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 28 septembre 2012 - 04:06 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

BrotherWarth wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Please don't bring Skyrim into this. That game lacked so much..

You brought Skyrim into the discussion yourself.

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If you want a silent pc then go play Skyrim!!!

That was pages ago ! No need to bring it up again or ever..
Still sour Warth?

[leeboi2]

BrotherWarth wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

Play the game mute and read the subtitles. There's your optional voice.

Don't be a jerk. I want everyone else to be voiced. I want the PC to be silent so I can imagine my own voice coming out of his mouth,

You used the word 'jerk' so I'm guessing you're American? So yeah, from this 'role playing perspective' you menitoned earlier, an American accent coming out in a world full of English, French, Spanish and Welsh accents, that would make total sense...Real legit.

[Fiacre]

leeboi2 wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

Play the game mute and read the subtitles. There's your optional voice.

Don't be a jerk. I want everyone else to be voiced. I want the PC to be silent so I can imagine my own voice coming out of his mouth,

You used the word 'jerk' so I'm guessing you're American? So yeah, from this 'role playing perspective' you menitoned earlier, an American accent coming out in a world full of English, French, Spanish and Welsh accents, that would make total sense...Real legit.

lolwut

I'm certainly not American (not even living on the same continent) and I still use the word jerk.

And even then, IIRC, the elves and dwarves in DAO do use American accents. And really, the accent is beside the point and what he imagines for his PC is not something that needs to bother you. But it's a RPG and imagining your characters voice is legit RPing.

I don't see any value is having our gameplay choices carry through from
one title to the next unless we're playing the same protagonist.  And
outside of ME (which I think abandoned all pretense of being a
roleplaying game with ME2), we don't.

I do. If it's the same world than I want that world to be the way I lft it last time. If I married Anora and had Alsitair executed, I don't wantto have him prancing around as King. It'll throw me out of the game and would be terribly annoying. It'd also feel like my choices didn't matter at all, because hey, the guy still managed to get his hands on the crown despite all my actions to keep him from it. Some minor referencesto my choices by some NPCs may not be much of a consequence, but IMHO infintely superior to just having a set canon.

Modifié par Fiacre, 28 septembre 2012 - 03:02 .

[Jerrybnsn]

[quote]BrotherWarth wrote...

If you want a silent pc then go play Skyrim!!![/quote]
[/quote]

I read this and laughed so hard.  I think over 12 million gamers did!  Wouldn't Bioware like to be so lucky.

[Altered Idol]

I thought the addition of a voiced protagonist was actually really beneficial to the fluidity of conversations in DA2 compared to DA:O. Sure it wasn't a perfect system and the dialogue wheel could be refined and improved, but it was far more immersing to hear your character respond with a voice than a vacant stare. DA:O characters felt like mannequins, without any real depth to the character.

I think silent protagonists working better in RPG's without as much emphasis on character interaction and story telling. Games that focus more on tactics and action than dialogue and diplomacy. In games like Dragon Age and The Witcher, I think its important that it feels as we are engaging in a conversation, not just being talked at.

[badboy64]

Altered Idol wrote...

I thought the addition of a voiced protagonist was actually really beneficial to the fluidity of conversations in DA2 compared to DA:O. Sure it wasn't a perfect system and the dialogue wheel could be refined and improved, but it was far more immersing to hear your character respond with a voice than a vacant stare. DA:O characters felt like mannequins, without any real depth to the character.

I think silent protagonists working better in RPG's without as much emphasis on character interaction and story telling. Games that focus more on tactics and action than dialogue and diplomacy. In games like Dragon Age and The Witcher, I think its important that it feels as we are engaging in a conversation, not just being talked at.

I agree completely.:happy:

Modifié par badboy64, 28 septembre 2012 - 03:53 .

[QueenPurpleScrap]

I see nothing wrong with having the option to turn off the PC's voice along with the option to have the full text of my choices visible with mouse hover (or something comparable). The animations would be the same. You can adjust the volume level for background music, sound effects, and dialog. I don't see where this is a dealbreaker. I would not turn off the voice the first time I played either gender. Maybe not the first few times. I would like the option, though, to imagine the voice of my PC at some point.

[Sylvius the Mad]

leeboi2 wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

Play the game mute and read the subtitles. There's your optional voice.

Don't be a jerk. I want everyone else to be voiced. I want the PC to be silent so I can imagine my own voice coming out of his mouth,

You used the word 'jerk' so I'm guessing you're American? So yeah, from this 'role playing perspective' you menitoned earlier, an American accent coming out in a world full of English, French, Spanish and Welsh accents, that would make total sense...Real legit.

Forget his voice.  How about just some other voice we imagine?  When we design our characters, we design them such that some voices simply won't suit them.

Being tied to the one voice BioWare decided to use drastically limits our character creation.

[Sylvius the Mad]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Please don't bring Skyrim into this. That game lacked so much..

So did DA2.  They just lacked different things.

[Kenshen]

BrotherWarth wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

eroeru wrote...

aryon69 wrote...

I am a huge fan of a voiced PC and find that I replay games with a voiced PC a lot more than when it isn't. One thing I always thought would be cool (though admit I have no idea if it is even possible) is to be able to adjust the frequency of the voice actor. So you could have the range as low as a Barry White to a very high pitched voice. Have it as another slider bar on character creation.

This is an interesting idea indeed!

It would even work for playing as qunari type of character. I like this 

In practice the voice slider has offered mixed results. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It generally depends on the tone of the game. If the game is wacky like Saint's Row:The Third, it works. If the game is more serious, like one would expect Dragon Age to be, it could make for cartoonish voices. There's only so much an in-game voice modifier can do. Now if Bioware were to take the voice and modify it themselves to offer multiple voices, that would be a different story.

I was not aware that voice modulation had already been done in a game.  Yes it could make for some silly and cartoonish voices but is that really a bad thing?  I mean I have seen screen shots of faces people have made in both DA and ME that were purposely  made as ugly as possible just for the giggles.  IMO it adds a lot to replayability of a game.

[LinksOcarina]

LPPrince wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering how ineffective the dialogue wheel was, why are they keeping it? The dialogue options almost never matched what Hawke actually said.

That was intenional it was meant to give a general idea of what Hawke would say.

The problem is when you don't even know what will be said, because the paraphrase has almost nothing to do with what Hawke verbally says. For example, when I chose for Hawke to say, "You're useless," he told Elthina, "Get out of my way!" The auto-lines also disconnected me from the protagonist.

I believe it was David Gaider who said a long time ago to sometimes think of it as the paraphrase being the first part of what is going to be said.

So in that case, "You're useless, get out of my way!"

A little dodgy.

I'll be honest, when I have been playing Star Wars: The Old Republic as of late, I kind of see that to be the case, because the lines are paraphrased, yet they always seem to continue the thought from what choice you make.

[LinksOcarina]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Please don't bring Skyrim into this. That game lacked so much..

So did DA2.  They just lacked different things.

That are unrelated, for the most part.

[Shinobu]

lx_theo wrote...

They won't, because it costs a lot to implement it and they won't just have a button to disable a big chunk of their budget and effort.

You mean like the "gender" button?

[Sylvius the Mad]

lx_theo wrote...

They won't, because it costs a lot to implement it and they won't just have a button to disable a big chunk of their budget and effort.

I hope their reasoning isn't that poor.  Once they've built the feature, it's a sunk cost.  Whether people use the feature is irrelevant.

[davepissedatending]

I like the talking pc it was the only thing that dragon age 2 did better than Dao in my op and hawks voice was sick lol

[eroeru]

David Gaider wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

I know I'm not alone in preferring a silent PC. I just prefer it from a role-playing perspective. And maybe it's just because I'm not a game designer, but it seems like it wouldn't take much work to implement this feature. They could keep the facial movement of the PC speaking to avoid the problem Origins had with the Warden blankly staring at people.

What say you, Bioware?

You mean simply turn off the player's voice? So you see the lips moving, but you don't hear anything?

No, sorry, I really doubt we would ever offer that as an option. We would only offer options that we could honestly look at and say "yes, this is something we think looks good and is a viable alternative to what we've presented". This is not something to which we could say that.

Now why is it assumed that it'd need lips moving? You could just omit the talking animation entirely, after the line has been picked, exactly like in Origins. In DA2 and ME we also and obviously had the nicely-working "stare" moment where you would pick the line (thank god Bioware isn't using quick-time events). And if Hawke does something of cinematic importance, I guess players wouldn't mind lips moving.

How much work and effort would it take to make two variants - one without the talking bit and one with it?

The benefits of redeeming yourselves in eyes of an entire player-group are more than enough to outweigh the nonrelevant time of labor needed for this.

Modifié par eroeru, 04 octobre 2012 - 11:39 .

[Seth_Holloway]

leeboi2 wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

Play the game mute and read the subtitles. There's your optional voice.

Don't be a jerk. I want everyone else to be voiced. I want the PC to be silent so I can imagine my own voice coming out of his mouth,

You used the word 'jerk' so I'm guessing you're American? So yeah, from this 'role playing perspective' you menitoned earlier, an American accent coming out in a world full of English, French, Spanish and Welsh accents, that would make total sense...Real legit.

I didn't realise Jerk was an American word? Weird... 

Im Australian, and I assume my warden had an Auzzie accent? Why not? Morrigan does! well.. sort of lol.

[Novate]

yeah, I totally agree , please Bioware spend your resources not in creating more varied dungeons, or in creating a wonderfully crafted story, or in Character development.Rather it seems you got fans that wants you to spend most of your time in making sure there is an Non Voiced PC option.

Guess today's gamer don't care about the story or gameplay, they want an Non Voiced PC option especially with multiple threads, and 11 pages of comments. 
Personally, I would rather they focus their attention in making sure DA2 doesn't happen in DA3 , and the endings are varied and surprising, not like ME3. As long as they do that, I could care less if my PC is voiced or not.

Modifié par Novate, 04 octobre 2012 - 12:22 .