438 réponses à ce sujet

[Cultist]

Brockololly wrote...

Given the move to Frostbite 2, I wouldn't mind having conversations take place in first person view with a silent protagonist. Like Skyrim or something akin to the Deus Ex: Human Revolution conversation battles (minus the voiced PC). Give more emphasis and focus on the person you're talking to via more body language while keeping things from the POV of the PC.

I doubt that is on the table given BioWare's predilection for super cinematic cutscenes and camera movements and that first person POV might be costly, but first person view + silent PC would be great, IMO. Seems with Origins the problem people mostly bring up with the silent PC Warden was how they looked weird in cutscenes/conversations being silent- first person view for conversations solves this to some extent.

This was created with DA Toolset. By fans. Tell me about expensive cutscenes and camera movements.
Professional voices cannot be created with Toolset, so expenses will be high.

Modifié par Cultist, 26 septembre 2012 - 09:11 .

[Icinix]

gangly369 wrote...

If you don't want to hear your pc talk, then put on the subtitles and hit the mute button.

Yes - people keep saying that - but then it mutes everyone.

The second problem with that is for that to really work - the sub-title section would need to have a few more lines when displaying text as oposed to I think two that were used in DA2.

[Paul E Dangerously]

You know what the single most unifying fact about games with silent PCs is?

You rarely see the character's face during conversations. This is not the case with Bioware's games post-NWN.

Modifié par Sopa de Gato, 26 septembre 2012 - 09:18 .

[Leanansidhe]

simfamSP wrote...

A Warden-esque silent protagonist is great. No one can say they didn't grow attached to their Warden... well at least 80% can't.

I didn't.  To me, Origins was Alistair's story.  I was just along for the ride.

[lx_theo]

BrotherWarth wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

A game has a budget where they spend money on parts they want to take up the game. They are not going to spend a bunch of money on a part just to give people the option to turn it off. 

Spelled out enough for you?

Except you shot down that argument yourself. Putting time and effort into the character creator just to cover up your PCs face with a helmet. Or taking the time and effort to design dozens of helmets just to make a toggle to make them all invisible.
Your argument is one of degree, not logical and illogical.

lol. Okay, because you comparing apples and oranges is logical. Okay, be happy with your delusions.

[Icinix]

lx_theo wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

A game has a budget where they spend money on parts they want to take up the game. They are not going to spend a bunch of money on a part just to give people the option to turn it off. 

Spelled out enough for you?

Except you shot down that argument yourself. Putting time and effort into the character creator just to cover up your PCs face with a helmet. Or taking the time and effort to design dozens of helmets just to make a toggle to make them all invisible.
Your argument is one of degree, not logical and illogical.

lol. Okay, because you comparing apples and oranges is logical. Okay, be happy with your delusions.

No, its a fair comparison.

[lx_theo]

Icinix wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

A game has a budget where they spend money on parts they want to take up the game. They are not going to spend a bunch of money on a part just to give people the option to turn it off. 

Spelled out enough for you?

Except you shot down that argument yourself. Putting time and effort into the character creator just to cover up your PCs face with a helmet. Or taking the time and effort to design dozens of helmets just to make a toggle to make them all invisible.
Your argument is one of degree, not logical and illogical.

lol. Okay, because you comparing apples and oranges is logical. Okay, be happy with your delusions.

No, its a fair comparison.

Because the budget constraints of scene implementation and voice acting compare to those of hat designs and the character creator?

lol, okay

[Icinix]

lx_theo wrote...

Icinix wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

A game has a budget where they spend money on parts they want to take up the game. They are not going to spend a bunch of money on a part just to give people the option to turn it off. 

Spelled out enough for you?

Except you shot down that argument yourself. Putting time and effort into the character creator just to cover up your PCs face with a helmet. Or taking the time and effort to design dozens of helmets just to make a toggle to make them all invisible.
Your argument is one of degree, not logical and illogical.

lol. Okay, because you comparing apples and oranges is logical. Okay, be happy with your delusions.

No, its a fair comparison.

Because the budget constraints of scene implementation and voice acting compare to those of hat designs and the character creator?

lol, okay

You also can turn off the music and voice individually if you want.

You can also already skip dialogue if you so choose.

The ability to do it already exists in the game - we're just asking for a one click button in the audio menu that removes the players characteres voice as opposed to all voice.

..so um...

lol, okay.

[terdferguson123]

I have to wonder where people who make these types of posts are coming from. To implement this without it being incredibly weird, Bioware would basically have to remake the majority of the cut scenes, which would get expensive really fast. Think about it, look at DA2 cut scenes and notice how much more the face and facial expressions are emphasized over DA:O. This is something that you can do with a voiced PC, a non-voiced would focus less on the face and more on other things, like for example, many of origins cut scenes simply focused on the person you were talking to or a view from behind the shoulder of your player character.

If they were to implement it the way you suggested, just an option to keep the same cutscenes and have no dialogue sound would come across as being incredibly weird. It would not be like Origins at all, which is probably what you think it would be like.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 26 septembre 2012 - 09:58 .

[Ryzaki]

Cultist wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Given the move to Frostbite 2, I wouldn't mind having conversations take place in first person view with a silent protagonist. Like Skyrim or something akin to the Deus Ex: Human Revolution conversation battles (minus the voiced PC). Give more emphasis and focus on the person you're talking to via more body language while keeping things from the POV of the PC.

I doubt that is on the table given BioWare's predilection for super cinematic cutscenes and camera movements and that first person POV might be costly, but first person view + silent PC would be great, IMO. Seems with Origins the problem people mostly bring up with the silent PC Warden was how they looked weird in cutscenes/conversations being silent- first person view for conversations solves this to some extent.

This was created with DA Toolset. By fans. Tell me about expensive cutscenes and camera movements.
Professional voices cannot be created with Toolset, so expenses will be high.

Holy...

That is so awesome!

[PinkDiamondstl]

They are't going to mute the pc deal with it. And let this thread fall to page 2 to never be seen again.

[lx_theo]

BrotherWarth wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Because the budget constraints of scene implementation and voice acting compare to those of hat designs and the character creator?

lol, okay

You obviously have very limited knowledge of what goes into making games. Character creators take A LOT of time and money. Since DA3 uses a new engine that means that the character creator has to be redone from scratch or at the least with very minimal transitioning from the old engine.

A one time expense? Not to mention they are going to be bringing over any resources they can to keep the character creator having as many of the same options as before (for the same reason it had that in DA2 and Mass Effect, most characters in game were made with them).

Voice acting and such is an expense every single time.

Do you really think hats are the equivalent to voice acting? Because that sounds desperate.

Modifié par lx_theo, 26 septembre 2012 - 09:59 .

[David Gaider]

BrotherWarth wrote...
Gaider still didn't say it was off the table. And I don't think Gaider would be the decision maker on gameplay mechanics since he's the lead writer, not the project lead.

No, it's not my decision-- but I think I know what the answer would be, particularly as it affects dialogue and those are systems of which I have a lot of knowledge. If you prefer to look on that as wiggle room that leaves you hope... well, okay. Up to you.

Modifié par David Gaider, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:01 .

[lx_theo]

Icinix wrote...


You also can turn off the music and voice individually if you want.

You can also already skip dialogue if you so choose.

The ability to do it already exists in the game - we're just asking for a one click button in the audio menu that removes the players characteres voice as opposed to all voice.

..so um...

lol, okay.

Give me one of those with the intention of being implemented only so that people can cut it out entirely? 

None of those are.

Music and voice are meant for adjustments to sound levels. Skipping dialogue is so that you don;t have to go through it multiple times. I mean, really people? 

Modifié par lx_theo, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:03 .

[RogueWriter3201]

Everyone has a right to request a feature (or lack thereof) from the DA Team (despite the unrealistic nature of some requests) However, I could not diagree more with the OP. You have to look at the spoken dialogue for the PC from a cinematic and narrative perspective. When you are attempting, as a game writer and designer, to impart a moment of deep emotional or significant resonace, and you have a close up on your PC and another character, and you have said character pooring their heart out or raging and so forth, their face converying the epitome of emotion...then cut to the PC and he/she is just standing there looking like a dim light bulb, the impact is significantly lessoned or even lost. 

In Origins this was *barely* excusable, and only just was because of the fantastic writing and other characters. However, as Mark, Mike, and David have stated again and again...and again, the kind of story experience BioWare is trying to create just doesn't work as well and as robustly as it could with a silent protaganist.

Detractors always hold up Baldur's Gate and NWN and other BioWare titles with silent protaganists as examples of how it could/did work; however I would be willing to bet you anything that if BioWare had possessed the means, and budget, to have their player characters speak in all their games, incorporating the *massive* and varied amounts of dialogue, they would have. But they found a better way to do it starting with Mass Effect (true, not the best example to bring up now...), and said way allows them to still incorporate choice in dialogue and emotion without having a manaquin. Bottom line, silent PC is just not going to happen.

If you *really* want one that bad there are always the original BioWare titles and, possibly, Avellone's Eternity (I don't think he's confirmed a silent protaganist). While the Dragon Age forums are not the cesspool of higher ups ignoring fans that *other* parts of the BSN now are, I do think folks really need to start *listening* /*comprehending*/ and excepting it when Mark, Mike, and David say "We're not going to have a silent Protaganist or a silent Option." It just wouldn't mesh with the kind of epic cinematic RPG story their trying to tell.

Now, for the record (for those who bother to read my entire post before replying) I'm not posting this with the intent to debate. The simple fact is most if not all debates on the forums are pointless because their not really debates, merely two or more people trying to speak over each other with almost no one ever willing to admit they are/might be incorrect. As such, this is just my personal opinion. Not demanding anyone share it, just putting it out there.  

Modifié par glenboy24, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:08 .

[lx_theo]

BrotherWarth wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

A one time expense? Not to mention they are going to be bringing over any resources they can to keep the character creator having as many of the same options as before (for the same reason it had that in DA2 and Mass Effect, most characters in game were made with them).

Voice acting and such is an expense every single time.

Do you really think hats are the equivalent to voice acting? Because that sounds desperate.

Sure, just ignore everything I said.

DA2 used the same engine as Origins. The entire ME trilogy used the same engine. That's why the character creators were so similar. DA3 uses a different and much more complex engine. They can't just "bring over any resources" they feel like. If they want the same hair styles and skin textures they'll have to make them again and try to mimic what was in Origins/DA2 as best they can. So it's not a one-time expense. Nothing from Origins/DA2 was a one-time expense.

Yes, they can bring over reources. Unless you think stuff like models, textures, and such are unique to an engine's coding.

Is that ignoring everything you said? lol