22 réponses à ce sujet

[SiDeWaYz24]

So, back around 2000 or so I played through most of the first Baldur's Gate. i remember it having one of the best stories i had ever been involved in with a game. I stopped playing though and went to the second one (Young age, and no patience), and only ever got to around level 8-10. I am a huge fan of the Pause and Play tacitcal combat style. I played Dragon Age: Origins with every class pretty much, with many of them being repeats. So, I have this question:

I am going to be downloading the BGTutu mod, along with some of the fixes and removed party banter, and all that other stuff. Does playing BG1 in the BG2 engine give me th options to choose a Berserker out of the fighter class, or still only the same classes and weapon specializations. One thing I did not like about BG1 was the fact that as a fighter I could specialize into one weapon type (Long Sword) and could use around 5 different weapon types without penalty. I felt like they gave you too many options instead of a specific path. Also, if I can start BGTutu with the same wepaon specializations and classes; which class would you recommend to someone who is pretty much new to the game, but not the mechanics. I recently installed BG2 and 1 and have been tinkering around on 2, trying to figure out what class I like the most. These are the few i have come up with as being my choices so far.

Inquisitor: These Paladins have great inate resistances and immunities. How would you say these PC's play and what are their strengths and weaknesses?

Berserker: Seem like a Fighter, just upgraded. Not a huge fan of the Enrage; as its downside after seems pretty steep, so it would be something used to finish off a fight, rather than a fight starter skill. What would oyu say this PC's strengths and weaknesses are?

Barbarian: Seems like a fighter, but pretty much better in every way minus heavy armors and no specializing past normal. What would oyu say this PC's strengths and weaknesses are?

Also, I am curious as to how some of these attribute points effect your character.

Strength, endurance and Dexterity seem pretty obvious, while Intelegence, Wisdom and Charisma seems like they effect things under the scenes. Charisma for example increases the ability of a character to lead his party. Does that just give an inate bonus to my party? Or keep them from dispanding or having arguements with eachother?

Thanks guys, and I will probably have a few more questions a little bit later. This game series is in my opinion the best series of games ever. If only DA could keep true to this system, that series could overthrow this as a more modernized, but DA:O is the only similar one. And DA3 seems like it will be very similar to how DA2 was, shame.

[Piplodocus]

Slightly tricky to answer some of these as this is technically the no-spoilers section. However:

As far as I know all kits from BG2 are available in BG1 when played via Tutu, so you should be able to be a Berserker.

I usually play as a Paladin, and occasionally specifically as an Inquisitor and I find both very enjoyable. Playing as a Paladin does not restrict you too much in terms of what you get up to, you are only in danger of losing your class and powers if your reputation drops quite low, in which case your role-playing perhaps needs a little work :-) Having said that, there is a series of items in the games (keeping this as vague as possible) that people like to collect and in 2 you have to do something very un-Paladiny to get one of them, that always sticks in my craw somewhat.

Never played as Berserker or Barbarian so can't help you there.

Strength and Dexterity are probably the most important stats for anybody who's going to be in traditional combat. If you are a mage you really really want 18 Intelligence and I can't recall how important Wisdom is to Clerics but probably reasonably so. As far as I know the main use of Charisma is getting a discount when shopping, but if you are a thorough player money should not ever be a problem for you after the early stages of the game. I don't think (though I'd be impressed if I was wrong) that Charisma affects the party relationships at all - some people will just get on and some just won't. Also (and again I'm trying to be non-spoilery as far as possible), it might be that early in one of the games you might find something that means you can perhaps leave one of your stats on the low side...

[Grond0]

Berserkers are a great class. Most combats last less than 10 rounds, which means that they can be protected by their rage the entire time. The barbarian rage gives slightly fewer immunities, but the major difference I find is that the rage only lasts 5 rounds. My experience is that this makes them significantly more difficult to protect in BG1 (where the lack of armour is also more of an issue than in BG2).

At higher levels the barbarian class is stronger than the berserker as the physical resistance, speed and no backstabs all help and the 5 round limitation on rage can be overcome by using multiple rages (there's no cooldown period as with the berserker). However, getting to level 15 or so to get those advantages is much easier with a berserker than a barbarian.

[SiDeWaYz24]

Awesome, thanks for the replies guys. I am in the process of installing some mods. I am looking at this EasyTutu guide, but I can't find the TutuFixPack. I am only finding BG1 Tweakpacks and whatnot. Nothing specific to Tutu. Should I just scrap Tutu and work with Trilogy? I haven't seen much in terms of comparisson, so I don't knowq whow they stack up to eachother. What are the mods you guys are rolling with? Which would you suggest, and why?

Again, thanks a bunch guys!

EDIT:
Also, Roleplaying is part of this game type isn't it? Haha, I love RPing in RPGs as it gives the game even MORE immersion and atmosphere.

Modifié par SiDeWaYz24, 27 septembre 2012 - 12:57 .

[Matuse]

Most fixpack type items have been incorporated directly into TuTu already. They had a new release not all that long ago where (among other things) they implemented the fix to the took-forever-to-find Beregost save file corruption bug.

[Anakronist]

Am replaying it aswell atm, but now, as then, I can't see my protagonist being anything BUT a sorcerer/wizard... Just seems to be the most powerful "beings" in that universe, and also, I still remember, fondly, soloing SoA and ToB (until the end) with a sorc. Was a lot of fun, and those spell battles you can get into throughout the game are nothing short of extraordinary.

[Jianson]

Charisma has 2 functions:
* Discount at shops (best discount at 20+ Charisma and 20 Reputation)
* Along with party Reputation, it has an effect on a variable called 'Reaction'. Reaction (sometimes) has an effect on the people you talk to. They may offer better quest rewards, etc.

The charisma that´s being used is the one of the character highest up the order out of the characters that currently are in the area in question.

Modifié par Jianson, 13 novembre 2012 - 08:36 .

[Grimwald the Wise]

If you like roleplaying, then the BG1 NPC project is a must.

There are also a lot of kits available. Don't be confused by the name "Paladins of Faerun" as there are kits for everyone not just paladins.

Cavaliers are a good choice too. Their immunity to charm is extremely useful and the lack of archery skills might actually answer your complaint regarding use of too many weapons.

The mercenary kit from paladins of Faerun might also suit you. Your skill is reduced for weapons which are not those of your race, but increased for those which are. Thus if your character is an elf, a fighter can start as a grandmaster in long swords and have one star in longbows.
Similarly, a dwarf can start with grandmastery in axes and have a star in crossbows. No plate armour though. However, if you are thinking of dual-classing to a thief, that is not an issue.

[Amberion]

Charisma also affects party morale when low on health. With low morale, party members are more likely to panic and run away uncontrollably.

[Easye142]

I have a charisma of 20 from a magic item (BG2) must be why none of my party leaves anymore they stay to the death. Before they would take off, plus I killed some people while they where sleeping and that got them upset but did not leave.

By the way how do I tell how many charges a wand has left? For some reason it does not show on the wand its self or in the description??

Thanks,

[Jianson]

By the way how do I tell how many charges a wand has left? For some reason it does not show on the wand its self or in the description??

BG2 and Tutu: Equip the wand in a quickslot and check the little number on the quickslot icon


Vanilla BG1: See how much gold a vendor is prepared to buy the wand for. This works even with vendors who don't actually buy wands. 
I do not have the exact numbers now (and a quick internet search gave nothing) but I remember the cheapest and the most expensive:

Wand of Magic Missiles: 10 gp per charge
Wand of Monster Summoning: 125 gp per charge

All the others are between these. Fire is something like 75 or 100 per charge.

Modifié par Jianson, 15 novembre 2012 - 03:45 .

[Easye142]

Jianson wrote...

By the way how do I tell how many charges a wand has left? For some reason it does not show on the wand its self or in the description??

BG2 and Tutu: Equip the wand in a quickslot and check the little number on the quickslot icon


Vanilla BG1: See how much gold a vendor is prepared to buy the wand for. I do not have the exact numbers now (and a quick internet search gave nothing) but I remember the cheapest and the most expensive:

Wand of Magic Missiles: 10 gp per charge
Wand of Monster Summoning: 125 gp per charge

All the others are between these. Fire is something like 75 or 100 per charge.

Oh ok  I have seen the little number when I am targetting something so thought that might be it, but I don't see it in the inventory.  I think I have had them quicksloted and did not see it, not positive I will need to chack again next time I play.

I do have another question:  Can a wand be desrupted like a spell?  It seems sometimes I target somthing and it never works?  Normaly when things are getting crazy and I am clicking different orders maybe I am causing it?  Also is there a time period between one use to the next?

[Jianson]

Easye142 wrote...
I do have another question:  Can a wand be desrupted like a spell?  It seems sometimes I target somthing and it never works?  Normaly when things are getting crazy and I am clicking different orders maybe I am causing it?  Also is there a time period between one use to the next?

A wand can't be disrupted. A charge is used almost instantly, like a potion.

When things get crazy, maybe you get fooled by the 'cooldown' period of spell-equivalent actions? After a character has done a spell equivalent action (cast a spell, drunk a potion, used a charge, etc.) they have to wait a full round (6 seconds) before they can perform another spell equivalent action. During the cooldown period, they can still receive orders to do it but it won't happen until after the 6 seconds has passed.

Maybe you didn't wait the full 6 seconds, changed your mind and had them drink a potion, cast a spell, move around or fight instead?

Modifié par Jianson, 15 novembre 2012 - 03:54 .

[Easye142]

That's what it must be I did not see them fire the wand right away again so normally I will switch to a different type of attack. So one round to fire the wand or drink a potion then one more round before next order is carried out?

I know spells take different time to cast but it is still the one round before they can do something else also true?

[Jianson]

So one round to fire the wand or drink a potion then one more round before next order is carried out?

Not quite.
The wand gets fired quickly (that can't take more than 1/10 or maybe 2/10 of a round), then the character must wait one round after that before they can do another spell equivalent action. This time can be used to fight, move around, turn undead, sing bard song, etc. Doing things like this does not affect the cooldown time.

As I understand it (and it's consistent with my observations), all characters in a fight are on their own different timers when it comes to their spell equivalent actions. 

I know spells take different time to cast but it is still the one round before they can do something else also true?

Yes. Let's say a Mage casts a Skull Trap and then wants to drink a healing potion as fast as possible. (It's a good thing here to have auto-pause on 'spell cast' activated, so you can order the potion drinking as soon as the spell is cast.) Then just wait and do nothing with the character until the potion gets drunk.

Skull Trap has casting time 3 - that's 3/10 of a round, or 1.8 seconds. So the potion will be drunk 7.8 seconds after the character began chanting the Skull Trap. So you can do both things in less than two full rounds (but now you have the 6 seconds cooldown period after the potion to consider).

If you want to do things the other way around (potion first, then spell, as fast as possible), you will have to pause the game yourself when you see the 'Gulp!' text and then order the spell. This is slightly harder to pull off perfectly, so I think the Skull Trap will come out at a bit over 8 seconds after the order to drink the potion was clicked.

Modifié par Jianson, 15 novembre 2012 - 04:54 .

[silenceall]

Jianson wrote...

So one round to fire the wand or drink a potion then one more round before next order is carried out?

Not quite.
The wand gets fired quickly (that can't take more than 1/10 or maybe 2/10 of a round), then the character must wait one round after that before they can do another spell equivalent action. This time can be used to fight, move around, turn undead, sing bard song, etc. Doing things like this does not affect the cooldown time.

As I understand it (and it's consistent with my observations), all characters in a fight are on their own different timers when it comes to their spell equivalent actions. 

I know spells take different time to cast but it is still the one round before they can do something else also true?

Yes. Let's say a Mage casts a Skull Trap and then wants to drink a healing potion as fast as possible. (It's a good thing here to have auto-pause on 'spell cast' activated, so you can order the potion drinking as soon as the spell is cast.) Then just wait and do nothing with the character until the potion gets drunk.

Skull Trap has casting time 3 - that's 3/10 of a round, or 1.8 seconds. So the potion will be drunk 7.8 seconds after the character began chanting the Skull Trap. So you can do both things in less than two full rounds (but now you have the 6 seconds cooldown period after the potion to consider).

If you want to do things the other way around (potion first, then spell, as fast as possible), you will have to pause the game yourself when you see the 'Gulp!' text and then order the spell. This is slightly harder to pull off perfectly, so I think the Skull Trap will come out at a bit over 8 seconds after the order to drink the potion was clicked.

I'm far from an expert, but that's not exactly how I understand it to work, so I'd love some independent corroboration here...

My understanding and experience is as follows:
- Each character gets one spell-equivalent action per round.
- Spell-equivalent actions include special abilities, chugging, casting and item use.
- Each individual begins his first round of the combat situation based on when he is given a command and then how long it takes him to get in position to execute that command.  For instance, a PC given the order to enter melee doesn't begin his round until he is within striking distance of the selected target with his melee weapon, whereas a mage casting the skull trap will begin casting immediately (as long as he's within casting distance of the target location.)
- In addition to performing a spell-equivalent action, the character may move or attack in any given round.  This action may be before or after the spell-equivalent action.
(I think all of the above is what you've said, now the difference.)
- Once a spell-equivalent action is performed, the person must only wait until the end of the current 6-second round before beginning another spell-equivalent action.

I find that use of the autopause function (at round end and spell cast in particular) are invaluable in maximizing character productivity in each round.  To me, the easiest way is to do your spell-equivalent action first (say casting that Skull Trap), then upon auto-pause issuing the next command (i.e., attack with sling), then upon auto-pause:end of round issuing the next spell-eqivalent action command (i.e. magic missile), and so on...If you try to do the non-spell action first (i.e. attacking), it is very difficult at best to time the command of the spell-equivalent action to happen in that round and you may find your character standing around doing nothing until the beginning of the next round.

[silenceall]

SiDeWaYz24 wrote...

Inquisitor: These Paladins have great inate resistances and immunities. How would you say these PC's play and what are their strengths and weaknesses?

Berserker: Seem like a Fighter, just upgraded. Not a huge fan of the Enrage; as its downside after seems pretty steep, so it would be something used to finish off a fight, rather than a fight starter skill. What would oyu say this PC's strengths and weaknesses are?

Barbarian: Seems like a fighter, but pretty much better in every way minus heavy armors and no specializing past normal. What would oyu say this PC's strengths and weaknesses are?

Also, I am curious as to how some of these attribute points effect your character.

Strength, endurance and Dexterity seem pretty obvious, while Intelegence, Wisdom and Charisma seems like they effect things under the scenes. Charisma for example increases the ability of a character to lead his party. Does that just give an inate bonus to my party? Or keep them from dispanding or having arguements with eachother?

Inquisitor - I love this particular Paladin, but as someone else said, they're all good.

Berserker vs. Barbarian - I agree with the previous analysis, but would add that if you have true grandmastery, that tilts the scales back toward the Zerker.

Attributes - If you're talking about a fighter type (including Pals, Rangers, Zerkers, Barbies, etc.), yes you only ever need worry about S, C and D.  Maximizing these 3 (particularly C and D) is good for any character.  There is also a reason to also keep Intelligence at 11+ for front-liners, but I won't spoil any more than that for you...For mages and other characters that have to learn arcane spells (i.e. not sorcerers) you should maximize Intelligence.  For Clerics (and Druids I believe) you should maximize Wisdom to gain extra spell slots.  As previously indicated Charisma has limited use in the game.  Place your highest charisma character in the lead spot (even if it's not your PC) when buying items.  There are also items and spells that can increase Ch.

In-party conflicts - Conflicts with you are strictly based on the NPC's alignment vs. the party's reputation. Evil characters will leave if your rep gets too high and good will leave if it gets too low.  Conflicts between NPCs are based solely on their scripts.  That is, certain characters don't like each other no matter what you do and others get along just fine.  There are mods that limit both types of conflicts.

[Easye142]

Jianson and Silenceall this is all very good stuff for a noob like me. I was getting confused by why my characters where not doing what I wanted but I was expecting it to happen right after I un-paused the game. I was thinking it had to do with what you two are saying I just could not put it all together.

I am definitely going to look into the auto-pause at spell cast pause options.

This brings up another question is the clock pendulum in the corner swing 6 times per round? not sure if this is important or not?

[Jianson]

silenceall wrote...
My understanding and experience is as follows:
- Each character gets one spell-equivalent action per round.
- Once a spell-equivalent action is performed, the person must only wait until the end of the current 6-second round before beginning another spell-equivalent action.

This is absolutely correct! I just tested by having Viconia cast Invisibility Purge (casting time 8) and then drink a potion. She drunk the potion a little over a second after the spell was cast.

This means that:
a) characters are more efficient than I thought
long casting times are not as bad as I thought, provided you do not desperately need the spell effect early in the round, and you do not get disrupted

Modifié par Jianson, 16 novembre 2012 - 12:08 .

[silenceall]

Easye142 wrote...
This brings up another question is the clock pendulum in the corner swing 6 times per round? not sure if this is important or not?

THAT is an excellent question; one to which I do not know the answer, but it seems like there should be at least a correlation, if not exactly 1 swing per second.  I will try and test it tonight.  If it does correlate, that would certainly be a good way to time your theiving abilities.  (Autopause will still work during combat, but outside of combat you don't get the autopause.  Thief abilities like detect traps and detect illusions work once a round, so I end up waiting a good 8 seconds to make I've hit that beginning of a round so I'm sure I've found traps I think are there...)

[silenceall]

Ok just tested it. In my install, it's almost exactly 2.5 seconds for a full swing back and forth. This helps exactly nil. However, I seem to recall that you can change the speed of the game somewhere in the config file if you really want to...

[Grond0]

silenceall wrote...

SiDeWaYz24 wrote...
Berserker: Seem like a Fighter, just upgraded. Not a huge fan of the Enrage; as its downside after seems pretty steep, so it would be something used to finish off a fight, rather than a fight starter skill. What would oyu say this PC's strengths and weaknesses are?

Barbarian: Seems like a fighter, but pretty much better in every way minus heavy armors and no specializing past normal.

Berserker vs. Barbarian - I agree with the previous analysis, but would add that if you have true grandmastery, that tilts the scales back toward the Zerker.

If you're talking about BG1 the armour difference is considerable.  Plate armour has AC of 1 compared to AC 4 for splint.  In addition, however, you need to consider the different adjustments for different weapon types.  Including these plate is 1 better AC against blunt weapons, 5 better against piercing and 7 better against slashing. 

In addition the berserker rage provides an AC benefit of 2, but the barbarian rage gives an AC penalty of 2.  Although the berserker rage gives penalties during the cooldown period after expiring it lasts 10 rounds (rather than the 5 for barbarians) so most enemies will be dead before rage expires.  

That all means that berserkers are much better than barbarians as front line tanks in BG1 (or the early stages of BG2). 

[Grond0]

silenceall wrote...

Ok just tested it. In my install, it's almost exactly 2.5 seconds for a full swing back and forth. This helps exactly nil. However, I seem to recall that you can change the speed of the game somewhere in the config file if you really want to...

The standard frame rate for the game is 30, but you can change this between 1 and 60 in your config file (baldur.ini) or by running the config programme.