24 réponses à ce sujet

[deuce985]

I'm just curious. I've been looking over some market numbers right now and I'm seeing a trend in the popular games on the market right now.

Skyrim - Very open with near unlimited play variety and choice

CoD - Say what you will about the CoD games, they have an amazing amount of variety in play and customization(especially for a FPS game)

Borderlands 2 - Already surpassing ME3 in sales in some regions and the game is all about customization(I'm currently playing this game and loving it)

Assassin's Creed - Open and a lot of play variety

Diablo 3 - Customization, customization, and playing with buds!

Did Bioware realize this and it's partly why we're seeing companion customization coming back and possibly even more customization like dye armor colors? Look at almost any game that's seeing big commercial success, they all seem to give the player plenty of player agency.

I can only speak for myself but the more choice a game has, generally I favor those games more. Why is the industry so infatuated on cinematic design? Too many games right now feel like they play themselves and quite honestly, it seems Bioware games are starting to strip a lot of player agency away and make it feel more like Bioware's game.

As an example, Bioware said a low percentage of players played non-humans in DAO. But it's a choice that's there. It's a choice that reinforces the entire package, no matter how low the percentage is. When you start stripping a bunch of features out because you don't think they're as important to devote resources to, eventually the entire package seems thin. I think this is what happened to DA2 as it went overkill in streamlining.  I probably haven't touched 15% of Skyrims content but that's what keeps me going back to that game. Not only is the content almost endless, it allows me to play the game in almost any way I can imagine. Skyrim is streamlined in areas that people don't seem to care as much about and sitll making it accessible. It lost some of the pure RPG gameplay from Morrowind by making it more accessible but it still kept the massive amount of variety in how you play.

I'm just curious, do other people think the current market trend in gaming is largely based on player choice? Do you think it will influence DA3's design? 

Modifié par deuce985, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:25 .

[Maria Caliban]

deuce985 wrote...

Is Bioware paying attention to the popular games today to influence DA3's design?

Yes.

[Eveangaline]

I assumed companion customization was coming back because the majority of people preferred the origins method of companion armor to the da2 method

[King Cousland]

deuce985 wrote...

I'm just curious. I've been looking over some market numbers right now and I'm seeing a trend in the popular games on the market right now.

Skyrim - Very open with near unlimited play variety and choice

CoD - Say what you will about the CoD games, they have an amazing amount of variety in play and customization(especially for a FPS game)

Borderlands 2 - Already surpassing ME3 in sales in some regions and the game is all about customization(I'm currently playing this game and loving it)

Did Bioware realize this and it's partly why we're seeing companion customization coming back and possibly even more customization like dye armor colors? Look at almost any game that's seeing big commercial success, they all seem to give the play plenty of player agency.

I can only speak for myself but the more choice a game has, generally I favor those games more. Why is the industry so infatuated on cinematic design? Too many games right now feel like they play themselves and quite honestly, it seems Bioware games are starting to strip a lot of player agency away and make it feel more like Bioware's game.

As an example, Bioware said a low percentage of players played non-humans in DAO. But it's a choice that's there. It's a choice that reinforces the entire package, no matter how low the percentage is. I probably haven't touched 15% of Skyrims content but that's what keeps me going back to that game. Not only is the content almost endless, it allows me to play the game in almost any way I can imagine.

I'm just curious, do other people think the current market trend in gaming is largely based on player choice? Do you think it will influence DA3's design? 

 

Skyrim has practically no choice or consequence and CoD are some of the most unvaried games I've ever played. 

[deuce985]

CoD4 revolutionized FPS games. It might not look so special now because it's the same thing every year and every FPS game tries to copy their formula. Why did it revolutionize FPS games? Because it added depth to the gameplay by borrowing RPG elements like perks and a lvl up system. It's still popular today because no game does it better. You might get a bunch of a games coming out that copy the formula but they don't sell. Because they don't do it better than CoD.

Unvaried in what way? To other FPS games? It still has more variety than almost any online FPS game I can think of safe Battlefield 3. And those are the two most popular FPS games on the market. CoD is a CQC experience with a lot of customization. BF3 is an open warfare experience with a lot of its own customization. Both are the best at what they do in their genre and they both see massive sales numbers, hence why it's an established franchise.

Skyrim stripped a lot of what made Morrowind great in my eyes but I still love Skyrim. I think Skyrim allowed itself to be more accessible to people who don't want to juggle with all the nuances behind more traditional RPGs. My own friend mentioned this to me and she doesn't play RPGs. She said the reason she enjoyed Skyrim was because it was more accessible to her and the world is so open.

Modifié par deuce985, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[Dagr88]

I hope that the only thing developers will take from Skyrim are side-plot chain quests (Academy, Thief's guild, Companions...) + several missions from different members of those guilds.

Chantry Board, Blackstone Irregulars, Mage's Collective, Favors for Certain Interested Parties, The Trial of Crows, Crime Wave from DA:O were a jummy filler. Several of those quest chains I only discovered after 4th playthrough. Some content should be there for us to find it.

Modifié par Dagr88, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:37 .

[naughty99]

I greatly enjoyed Skyrim and think perhaps there are a couple of gameplay features that might be relevant to DA3, such as enhancing the replay value by providing greater character customization, lots more side quests and joinable factions, etc., but I don't see much in Borderlands 2 or COD that would translate, other than perhaps if there is a co-op multiplayer mode in DA3.

While Borderlands co-op can be fun to wander around and shoot monsters with friends, in my view, the game's design places too much emphasis on loot collection and was not very strong in terms of mechanics and game systems that facilitate actual role playing. I would certainly hope that DA3 provides a much better framework for RP.

Can't really comment on COD, as I've never tried it, but it's hard to imagine what, if anything, would translate to DA3.

Modifié par naughty99, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:37 .

[Maclimes]

I think they should take the idea of Diablo 3's "crafting-only companions" and do them up Bioware style, with real personality, goals, and stories.

[deuce985]

My point is players(generalizations, wee!) don't like to be restricted. They want to play how they see the game.

Stripping features like playable races might not be as bad by itself but when you compare it to other features, it might eventually end up being a big deal together. Say, stripping companion customization, playable races, and streamlined dialogue wheels. Step back and look at that. I think a lot of people would agree that adds into a big annoyance.

Bioware doesn't have to make DA3 something like Borderlands 2/Diablo 3 customization. That's not the point I'm making. I'm saying they can apply plenty of player agency in places it matters for Bioware games. Like giving us more options on the dialogue wheel(since they said they're not removing it), playable races, more control over our tones, etc.

Companion customization is a nice step forward to start. I'm eager to see what other "player agency" they bring back to us.

Modifié par deuce985, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:47 .

[Wozearly]

King Cousland wrote...

Skyrim has practically no choice or consequence and CoD are some of the most unvaried games I've ever played. 

I disagree about Skyrim.

The Elder Scrolls series has had player freedom as an absolutely core element since Daggerfall. Variety has been reduced over time through streamlining, but the freedom to make choices is far, far greater than Bioware's games. Particularly around how you do something, or whether you even do it at all - including avoiding the main quest line.

Those choices do not necessarily have a huge impact on the game world, but in honesty, different choices in Bioware games rarely lead to a substantially different game world either (although when they do, its always good).


OP - I would be very shocked if most people working in the games industry didn't at least have a passing interest in games. So they're going to see what is being done elsewhere both as developers and, I expect, as players in many cases as well. And EA's head office have a clear view on microtransactions and multiplayer / social elements, as they've made facepalmingly clear in recent weeks.

Naturally there'll be an influence...but my guess is its going to be an informal "that's a cool idea...actually, that'd work as a great way to improve our game / solve the problem we've also been up against", rather than a "Hey, Dragon's Dogma did this and it sold well, how do we replicate it so that our game will sell well".

Modifié par Wozearly, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:47 .

[deuce985]

I only used CoD because it's the best in the FPS genre outside Borderlands when it comes to customization and play variety...

People have different gaming tastes...DA3 could have all the player agency in the world and it might not ever align to a CoD player's personal taste. The only point I'm making is you can draw similarities between all the most popular games in the industry and their respective genres right now...

They all share variety...and yes, CoD might be dull compared to a Morrowind. When comparing it to other online FPS games though, it sits basically at the top by itself.

[EricHVela]

Dragon Age is Dragon Age. Other games are other games.

What made other games good or bad does not necessarily apply to DA.

Whether they're similar or not doesn't implicate a causation.

[deuce985]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Dragon Age is Dragon Age. Other games are other games.

What made other games good or bad does not necessarily apply to DA.

Whether they're similar or not doesn't implicate a causation.

Then let us look at what made DAO better than DA2 through our own eyes. I can tell you right now that one of the biggest reasons I enjoyed DAO more than DA2 - much more variety in almost everything you did...

I could articulate on this but I think it has been hammered down pretty hard on the forums...

[jackofalltrades456]

If they want to follow other games than they should look at Fallout: New Vegas. Bethesda received a lot of the same crap from Fallout 3 that seems to be vaguely similar to the criticism that a lot recent Bioware titles have been getting. ( Horrible endings, removal of tactical game for a more streamlined FPS style, inconsistencies in the storyline, barely matching up to the original game.) I think Obsidian and Bethesda did an excellent job mashing the original Fallout games and Fallout 3 into New Vegas.

I know there has already been talks about how they're going to combine both the best features of Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 together, but I'm still extremely skeptical about this statement. They've said the same thing when making Dragon Age 2! ( We're bring the best features over from Origins).

They seem to have almost instantly announced Dragon Age 2 features while either refuse to comment or clearly state no when Dragon Age:Origins feature are brought up. Hopefully, Dragon Age 3 with be what Fallout: New Vegas was to Fallout 3. Or it could just be Dragon age 2.5. I'm hoping for the former.

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 26 septembre 2012 - 11:08 .

[hoorayforicecream]

You'd be surprised what influences what. The camera tricks in one of the more recent Tony Hawk games was chiefly influenced by Street Fighter IV.

[mousestalker]

All the people at Bioware who have ever commented have been game lovers and game players. It's a fair bet that they know and are influenced by other games. I would be shocked if they weren't.

[Xewaka]

mousestalker wrote...
All the people at Bioware who have ever commented have been game lovers and game players. It's a fair bet that they know and are influenced by other games. I would be shocked if they weren't.

John Epler mentioned a drinking game which involved him mentioning S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I think they dropped it in the office after a couple liver failures.

Hoorayforicecream wrote...
You'd be surprised what influences what. The camera tricks in one of the more recent Tony Hawk games was chiefly influenced by Street Fighter  IV.

John Woo presents Stranglehold based its focus mode on Steve Fox's dodging (from Tekken).
Crosspolinization is videogames is more frequent than people think.

Modifié par Xewaka, 26 septembre 2012 - 11:45 .

[MerinTB]

Xewaka wrote...

mousestalker wrote...
All the people at Bioware who have ever commented have been game lovers and game players. It's a fair bet that they know and are influenced by other games. I would be shocked if they weren't.

John Epler mentioned a drinking game which involved him mentioning S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I think they dropped it in the office after a couple liver failures.

Man loves his S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

[Plaintiff]

No. They are completely ignorant of their competition.

[jokey javik]

deuce985 wrote...

CoD4 revolutionized FPS games. It might not look so special now because it's the same thing every year and every FPS game tries to copy their formula. Why did it revolutionize FPS games? Because it added depth to the gameplay by borrowing RPG elements like perks and a lvl up system. It's still popular today because no game does it better. You might get a bunch of a games coming out that copy the formula but they don't sell. Because they don't do it better than CoD.

Unvaried in what way? To other FPS games? It still has more variety than almost any online FPS game I can think of safe Battlefield 3. And those are the two most popular FPS games on the market. CoD is a CQC experience with a lot of customization. BF3 is an open warfare experience with a lot of its own customization. Both are the best at what they do in their genre and they both see massive sales numbers, hence why it's an established franchise.

Skyrim stripped a lot of what made Morrowind great in my eyes but I still love Skyrim. I think Skyrim allowed itself to be more accessible to people who don't want to juggle with all the nuances behind more traditional RPGs. My own friend mentioned this to me and she doesn't play RPGs. She said the reason she enjoyed Skyrim was because it was more accessible to her and the world is so open.

I got to admit I do not miss weapons repair and I like that player housing got expanded on which I think should be in da3 and I would even like to remove the item limit but that is part of the challenge after all.

[marshalleck]

They should take a lead from Dark Souls and include non-consensual PVP invasions during the single-player portion. God that would make this forum entertaining.

[berelinde]

Maclimes wrote...

I think they should take the idea of Diablo 3's "crafting-only companions" and do them up Bioware style, with real personality, goals, and stories.

And forget the part where you spend a ton of gold and crafting materials to get an item with six incompatible and pretty much useless random properties.

Actually, I kind of liked the way the did it with that weapon you got in Awakening. You could specify the properties you wanted.

[Morroian]

naughty99 wrote...

While Borderlands co-op can be fun to wander around and shoot monsters with friends, in my view, the game's design places too much emphasis on loot collection and was not very strong in terms of mechanics and game systems that facilitate actual role playing. 

That would be because its not a role playing game.

[jokey javik]

deuce985 wrote...

I only used CoD because it's the best in the FPS genre outside Borderlands when it comes to customization and play variety...

People have different gaming tastes...DA3 could have all the player agency in the world and it might not ever align to a CoD player's personal taste. The only point I'm making is you can draw similarities between all the most popular games in the industry and their respective genres right now...

They all share variety...and yes, CoD might be dull compared to a Morrowind. When comparing it to other online FPS games though, it sits basically at the top by itself.

I liked forge in halo and I heard it is going to be more varied hell if it wasn't for halo and kotor I would of never gotten an xbox in the first place now that I think about it those games opened are what created the trends we see in gaming today well kotor to a lesser extent now.

I see the ripple effects of cod in many games now as much as I may not like this I can not deny it so maybe we'll get lucky and da3 will inovate some new customization ideas into the industry .

(theres probably something where missing in rpgs some where we just have to find it).

[Morroian]

King Cousland wrote...

Skyrim has practically no choice or consequence and CoD are some of the most unvaried games I've ever played. 

Having role playing freedom and choice in how you build a character and what you do in the game is different from choice and consequence in story terms. Story choice and consequence is not fundamental to rpgs.