107 réponses à ce sujet

[catofnine]

fantasypisces wrote...
Yeah I got my Dex up to 30 for talents then stopped, will only raise it again when I need to for a new bow. But yes, otherwise, if I have not put anything in Dex, then it has all gone into cunning. So at level 8-9 my damage is 27 per arrow (average), with (as said above) 30 Dex and 26 cunning at level 8, (29 cunning when I leveled to nine).

So everyone is telling me my damage is low for my level. They then say to only up Dex and Cunning, which is all I have done. Sooo, because it is still low, am I maybe bugged? The bow I am using is 7.2 damage, best I have found so far for the level.

I wouldn't go as far to say your damage is low.  I'm sorry that I don't remember exactly what Leliana was doing at that level...just know that it wasn't particularly impressive.  I do remember her not really coming into her own until about L15 when I fought the high dragon.  She was lighting that boss up, and that's when I saw her actual numbers of 50-75.  Maybe be a little patient with your guy?  The other thing I could think of is that I abuse the living crap out of debuffs...I often use crippling shot to set up my other shots in addition to my pc rogue using her debuffs i.e. assassin's mark, below the belt.

Modifié par catofnine, 28 décembre 2009 - 12:54 .

[swk3000]

Rogues have enough skill points that I max out the Coercion and Combat Training lines easily. I have the Fomari Tome, so I have a bit of an advantage in that regard, however. I generally have no danger of failing the early Persuade checks.



Personally, I'd use the build I gave above, but drop the extra skill point into Coercion for the early Persuade checks. After the Joining, one of my Skill Points goes to Stealing (to unlock the highly profitable Crime Wave quests), and the rest max out Coercion. As for Talents, it would probably be either maxing out the Stealth line, or finishing off the Melee Archer line. That's me, though.

[aerathnor]

I'm currently doing a solo nightmare run on a Archery Rogue, indeed the first points I used were to get AoS at lvl 5, being that this is a solo run I leveled up my stealth next to 3rd rank combat stealth (you need to be level 12 for master) Granted I have put nothing into coercion and instead opted for crafting routes, AoS, combat stealth, and traps/grenades work wonders. Basically the curve for archer is 1-8:Nightmare 8-12:Hard, 12+ normal-easy.



One thing you may wish to review is what you target AoS on. Yellows it still does good damage but against any orange or boss character you're just waisting a load of stamina as they will not be hit hard. I solo'd Soldier's peak at lvl 9 and the Desire Demon at the end was hell just because of the fact that AoS only did like 75 damage to her.



The real trick to archery imo is picking targets, and strategic use of AoS. One more thing, the reason most people stack cunning is because they take bard as their spec. The 3rd bard song improves attack,damage, and crit% based on cunning so you can get away with a low Dex and use your cunning as your primary +attack stat. Basically the Lethality build is a way to give Longbows one primary stat to stack instead of two, not to mention cunning helps with locks, persuades, armor penetration and a whole lot more.

[fantasypisces]

Yeah I was stacking cunning because I was going to be bard/ranger.

I will be a bit more patient, was just frustrating having to dial down the difficulty.

Thanks everyone, getting ready to do the Fade so I won't be here for a bit while I try to rush through as fast as possible (hate that place after doing it three times hehe).

[swk3000]

Three times? I've done it more times than I can count. I know the place nearly by heart.

[sinosleep]

Fantasypisces are you using a bow that has rapid aim? It makes a MONUMENTAL difference in damage output. First thing I did when I got out of lothering was pick up a whitewood shortbow with rapidaim from the dalish. It only cost like 4 or 5 gold and it served me quite well right up until I bought farsong.

p.s I play on nightmare as well, so the archer can certainly stand up well in that difficulty. My group was composed of Alistair, Dog, and Sten. As for party damage it wasn't 45%, it was 40% at lvl 15, I was doing around 45 damage per regular hit. My end game damage was 38% at lvl 22.

Modifié par sinosleep, 28 décembre 2009 - 02:00 .

[fantasypisces]

I turned off Rapid Shot and it has made a world of difference. Running around right now with Wynne casting glyph of repulsion in doorways and I just Arrow of Slaying Crit arrow everything, sort of enjoyable as they bounce of the glyph.

[aerathnor]

Until one is a bastard and resists it

[sinosleep]

fantasypisces wrote...

I turned off Rapid Shot and it has made a world of difference. Running around right now with Wynne casting glyph of repulsion in doorways and I just Arrow of Slaying Crit arrow everything, sort of enjoyable as they bounce of the glyph.

Not rapid shot, I'm talking about the bow itself have rapid aim as an attribute.

[swk3000]

Someone mentioned that Rapid Shot disables Crits, so he's saying he turned it off. It's a general statement.

[fantasypisces]

Yeah what swk3000 said, I always thought it just reduced crit chance, me thinks someone needs to read the tooltips better. But anyway, ya it is a lot better, damage still feels a bit low, but things have perked up a bit. Will just wait and see.

And yes I plan to go get a rapid-aim bow

The problem was that one of my tactics apparently was to turn on rapid shot. Anytime I took control of another character my PC would flip it on and I wouldn't realize for a while. So I went in and disabled that tactic and things have been better.

But I still maintain my stance, if AoS was not available, Archer still wouldn't be that amazing

Modifié par fantasypisces, 28 décembre 2009 - 02:42 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

swk3000 wrote...

If you build your character right, you can get Arrow of Slaying at Level 5 (just completed the Joining). Here's how:

Character Creation: Human Noble Rogue. +5 Dexterity, Improved Combat Training, Pinning Shot, Deft Hands
Level 2: +3 Dexterity, Crippling Shot
Level 3: +3 Dexterity, Expert Combat Training, Critical Shot
Level 4: +3 Dexterity, Improved Tools
Level 5: +1 Dexterity, +3 Cunning, Master Combat Training, Arrow of Slaying, Melee Archer

That's just a sample build, of course, but it gives you some lockpicking abilities, gets you Arrow of Slaying as soon as possible, and starts out on building your Cunning score for when you pick up Lethality (your next three Level Ups should take Below the Belt, Deadly Strike, and Lethality). So you can actually go through most of the game with Arrow of Slaying, instead of the 20% you were going for. From there, you can start looking to get Stealth if you want it, and filling out your other Archer talents.

Yes, it is a good idea to get the 4th talent in a line as early as possible, but I'll suggest going for Scattering Shot rather than AoS. Multiple damage and stun really is very powerful in early stage.

Modifié par Hulk Hsieh, 28 décembre 2009 - 02:39 .

[Jsmith0730]

So wait.. DO pump Cun over Dex? 'cos I've heard all sorts of different things. You need Cun if you're going Bard, but then people say to still focus on Dex to make sure you hit/do damage... gah.

[fantasypisces]

Jsmith0730 wrote...

So wait.. DO pump Cun over Dex? 'cos I've heard all sorts of different things. You need Cun if you're going Bard, but then people say to still focus on Dex to make sure you hit/do damage... gah.

Yeah I'm getting a bit confused too, but since I am going bard I am doing the Cun and Dex thing...

[swk3000]

Honestly, I'd probably go the Cunning route myself. Longbows get half their damage from Strength on the 360, so Lethality gives a pretty solid boost, and still allows for the Swiss Army Knife functionality I've come to value on a Rogue.

[Jsmith0730]

So it just comes down to how much you want to hit/miss then I guess.

[swk3000]

I'm running a Dual Wield Rogue right now, and she's only got 26 Dexterity, and my Hit Rate is 85%. It's not that big a loss.

[aerathnor]

Jsmith0730 wrote...

So wait.. DO pump Cun over Dex? 'cos I've heard all sorts of different things. You need Cun if you're going Bard, but then people say to still focus on Dex to make sure you hit/do damage... gah.

Basically if you're not going bard then you need to balance the two. However, the third talent in the Bard line is a sustained song that increases your attack (your chance to hit), your damage, and your critical chance, the bonus to each is determined by your Cunning score. Since Dex is your main +attack stat prior to getting this ability most people pump their Dex up to around 36 so they can get all the abilities and use all the bows.

Once your Dex is high enough you pump into Cunning since with your bard song, your cunning score increases your Attack, Damage, Crit Chance, Armor Penetration, Persuation, and assuming you're a rogue, lockpicking/trap disarming. With Lethality it also replaces Strength as the stat that determines damage you do with melee and longbows.

So basically, setting yourself up as a Lethality archer with the 3rd Bard song makes cunning into a super stat that takes the place of both Dex and Strength and basically gives you all the benefits that you would get by pumping either of those minus the bonus to Physical resist that Dex and Strength give (cunning gives a bonus to mental resist so its not as if you're screwing yourself on all resists)

One very important thing to remember is that this is for a longbow build. Short bows get no contribution from strength and therefor none from your cunning score with Lethality.

[metallica1986]

Archery isn't awful. I personally find rogue archers better than mages, and they kill enemies before they can even get near. Yeah, it can be hard during low levels. During the early boss fights I used to switch between dual daggers and bows because I didn't have Master Archer or Arrow of Slaying yet. When you start getting the really good +dex/+crit gear and the right skills, everything would be so easy. I remember my archer dealing the same amount of damage as my 2H warrior (with lots of sustained abilities), and that's from long distance. And of course, almost nothing can beat a rogue's dps. I always have Leliana & Zevran with me, and Alistair as tank. With attack & crit bonus from Leliana, you will usually score a critical hit from your shots and Zevran's backstabs. Even on nightmare, you can take out Revenants in less than a minute. And the best thing about archers is that they have superior range. You can take out enemies from a distance where they can't even hit you

Here are some videos I made from my rogue archer. You can look at my profile for my gear and skills

Modifié par metallica1986, 28 décembre 2009 - 04:09 .

[sinosleep]

I disagree with pumping cun, even if you're going bard. Here's why

Siven80 wrote...

Song of Courage: gains 3 attack (+ 10% of cunning modifier ) , 2 Damage(+5% cunning modifier), Crit chance 3% (+10% cunning modifier).

So remember a modifer is the stat -10.
So 70 cunning Song of Courage would give you 9 Attack, 5 Damage and 9% Crit.
40 Cunning would give you 6 Attack, 3.5 Damage and 6%Crit.

IMO 30 cunning differnce isnt a huge increase, whereas putting those 30 into Dex will give an extra 15 attack (0.5attack per point) while only losing 1.5 damage from the song only, 3% crit from the song and ArPen fom cunning loss.

Depends what you want to gain really. Me, i will be going dex after so much Cunning.

Seems to me you get a far more beneficial bonus from pumping dex than you would for pumping cun as far as the song goes.

Modifié par sinosleep, 28 décembre 2009 - 04:07 .

[Jsmith0730]

Ahh, the third talent... THAT was the missing link, thanks for the heads up.

[aerathnor]

sinosleep wrote...

I disagree with pumping cun, even if you're going bard. Here's why

Seems to me you get a far more beneficial bonus from pumping dex than you would for pumping cun as far as the song goes.

You're missing the bonus damage you get from Lethality and the Armor Penetration bonus from cunning. Its not just the Bard song that makes it. but that is how cunning archers make up for a lack of attack bonus. The fact that it improves on damage on top of lethality and gives a crit bonus is just extra.

[fantasypisces]

In other news (after another level and fade bonuses) I'm sitting at 32ish cunning and improved tools and still can't unlock chests in the mages tower (which is a level 7 area, according to bioware) booooo, I want my elfroot and blank vellum! Hehe.

[swk3000]

All that means is you didn't spam side-quests. I head to Denerim and do as many side-quests there as I can before heading to the Circle Tower, and I'm always able to open those chests.

[sinosleep]

aerathnor wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

I disagree with pumping cun, even if you're going bard. Here's why

Seems to me you get a far more beneficial bonus from pumping dex than you would for pumping cun as far as the song goes.

You're missing the bonus damage you get from Lethality and the Armor Penetration bonus from cunning. Its not just the Bard song that makes it. but that is how cunning archers make up for a lack of attack bonus. The fact that it improves on damage on top of lethality and gives a crit bonus is just extra.

Why wouldn't you take lethality as a dex build? I took it. All it took was putting the extra point I didn't have to spend in lock picking, plus 2 points from the 2nd specialization that I never use any way. Going with the build I quoted (cun to 40 everything else into dex) you'd still get a benefit from it since strength wouldn't be going up past 20 any way.

Modifié par sinosleep, 28 décembre 2009 - 04:37 .