40 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

Given that one of the monthly questions a little while ago related to crafting, I do hope they're considering broadening and deepening the system for DA3 - a simple dependency or hierarchy system of crafting materials and breakdowns for items could do wonders for customisation, especialy if it's tied into appearance modification.

I think DA2 did something strange with its inventory, it populated the gameworld with items while having almost no gameplay systems that depended on them. It was like they preserved item collection for its own sake (because looting is so fundamental to perceptions of RPGs and the fantasy genre in particular) but the ways in which players could actually use things they found were so pared back. The player had attribute-based restrictions, class-restrictions, their companions couldn't have their armour adjusted, some had locked weapons, and junk was good for absolutely nothing.

There's also a nitpicky, bemusing question about the junk items that this thread highlights - why would anyone buy a moth-eaten scarf or tattered pants? Unless it's an incredibly straight-faced parody of traditional RPG looting, it seems a bit bizarre that they'd retain 'high-value' junk items (gems, diamonds, silver cups) alongside piles and piles of utter trash that no intrepid adventurer worthy of the title would ever go near.

[Maclimes]

From a crafting perspective, I sort of like DA2, for the simple stuff. It was handy to not have to run around harvesting Elfroot to make potions.

BUT, for the better items, it would be neat to actually need finite resources to craft.

[berelinde]

You know, I kept that darned Tome of Slumbering Elders through each of *three* playthroughs because I believed Marethari when she said it was worth more than coin. I kept thinking that it was part of some later quest that I somehow kept missing. And then I checked the wiki and felt like an idiot.

[Mr.House]

Skelter192 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Junk items exist so the PC can make some extra cash selling things they know are worthless. It also gets them in the habit of checking their environment so when you do have something important, they don't rush by it.

Replace it with money then? It's not like it would change anything.

In Witcher 2, yes Witcher, there is no junk loot because even something as simple as twine is used in crafting. Bioware should adopt a system like that. If you find say twine with enough of it in Witcher 2 we could make cloth and we could use it in crafting gear pretty much all base materials could be combined to make a higher tier crafting material. CDProjekt removed junk loot and made everything useful in some form. Sure you could sell everything off if you want but you could also craft something really early on in Chapter 1,2 or 3 and not have to worry about dying so often. I spent probably more time searching for materials in Dark Mode then I did in Origins and if Bioware really needs to use such cheap ways to get us to notice something then they need to find a better way to get us to listen.

TW2 had junk loot.

[Milan92]

Mr.House wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Junk items exist so the PC can make some extra cash selling things they know are worthless. It also gets them in the habit of checking their environment so when you do have something important, they don't rush by it.

Replace it with money then? It's not like it would change anything.

In Witcher 2, yes Witcher, there is no junk loot because even something as simple as twine is used in crafting. Bioware should adopt a system like that. If you find say twine with enough of it in Witcher 2 we could make cloth and we could use it in crafting gear pretty much all base materials could be combined to make a higher tier crafting material. CDProjekt removed junk loot and made everything useful in some form. Sure you could sell everything off if you want but you could also craft something really early on in Chapter 1,2 or 3 and not have to worry about dying so often. I spent probably more time searching for materials in Dark Mode then I did in Origins and if Bioware really needs to use such cheap ways to get us to notice something then they need to find a better way to get us to listen.

TW2 had junk loot.

Exactly. 

*Cough*

[naughty99]

Mr.House wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Junk items exist so the PC can make some extra cash selling things they know are worthless. It also gets them in the habit of checking their environment so when you do have something important, they don't rush by it.

Replace it with money then? It's not like it would change anything.

In Witcher 2, yes Witcher, there is no junk loot because even something as simple as twine is used in crafting. Bioware should adopt a system like that. If you find say twine with enough of it in Witcher 2 we could make cloth and we could use it in crafting gear pretty much all base materials could be combined to make a higher tier crafting material. CDProjekt removed junk loot and made everything useful in some form. Sure you could sell everything off if you want but you could also craft something really early on in Chapter 1,2 or 3 and not have to worry about dying so often. I spent probably more time searching for materials in Dark Mode then I did in Origins and if Bioware really needs to use such cheap ways to get us to notice something then they need to find a better way to get us to listen.

TW2 had junk loot.

Haven't played TW2 enough to test the crafting system, but in my view, having a bunch of items that serve absolutely no purpose, not even environmental clutter or crafting recipes, is a huge mistake in any game. If that's the case with these TW2 items, it's still a very bad design choice.  

This type of "junk" item does not enhance the exploration aspect of the game, nor does it improve the quality of the environments.

berelinde wrote...

You know, I kept that darned Tome of Slumbering Elders through each of *three* playthroughs because I believed Marethari when she said it was worth more than coin. I kept thinking that it was part of some later quest that I somehow kept missing. And then I checked the wiki and felt like an idiot.

Same here, it was a big let down 

Modifié par naughty99, 28 septembre 2012 - 01:38 .

[Lokanaiya]

At least make "junk," you know, actual junk, like the moth-eaten scarves and broken weapons. But special, unique books and gems and such should have some use, such as gifts, crafting, or extra skill points.

[Palipride47]

berelinde wrote...

You know, I kept that darned Tome of Slumbering Elders through each of *three* playthroughs because I believed Marethari when she said it was worth more than coin. I kept thinking that it was part of some later quest that I somehow kept missing. And then I checked the wiki and felt like an idiot.

Marethari- "This book has rare value, beyond price"

Hawke.- "Eh, whatever. Stupid Dalish think some ancient elf breathed on some cloth, its rare"  *sells for some silver*

That book could've granted attribute or talent points, or something. Then, if you take the tool from their clan so Merrill coudn't have it, there is no indication you just "gave it back." 
~~~~~

I agree with another's poster's assessment that Origins inventory system was superior.

What I did not enjoy about the crafting system is that I could not craft lyrium, stamina or health potions, but it was for the same reason they lengthened the cooldowns on healing and resurection spells (so you couldn't spam your mage to heal every 5 secs and require you to be tactical, in theory at least)

Modifié par Palipride47, 28 septembre 2012 - 03:04 .

[naughty99]

Maclimes wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

I'd suggest also that the ratio of junk-to-usable-items was upped so significantly because DA2 had no usable items other than what could be directly equipped (or drunk, for potions), and even then the proportion that the player could actually use was smaller still. There were no herbalism/poison/trap-making components, so what we could actually find around the environment was limited to weapons/armour/jewellery and literal junk. 

What this meant in practice was that almost all the loot that could be found in the gameworld was entirely useless, most of it was junk and of the remainder a significant amount couldn't be equipped by the player (or their companions) anyway. 

Good point. If you were going to loot something, there was a 99% chance it would be useless anyway. With companions unable to wear armor, class limitations on weapons, and the weird stat-enforced class restrictions on armor for Hawke, you can bet that almost all gear you found was useless.

There was no more crafting (well, not from lootable components), and no more gifts, so those are now out, too.

I understand that in DA2 you'll be able to equip found armor items on followers, but have they mentioned anything about gifts?

[naughty99]

Palipride47 wrote...

I agree with another's poster's assessment that Origins inventory system was superior.

What I did not enjoy about the crafting system is that I could not craft lyrium, stamina or health potions, but it was for the same reason they lengthened the cooldowns on healing and resurection spells (so you couldn't spam your mage to heal every 5 secs and require you to be tactical, in theory at least)

Yes, it did seem strange that every ruffian in the street has health/lyrium potions, etc., but you couldn't craft them. Some of the potions and bombs you could craft were interesting, but the process was more like merely expanding the inventory of a merchant's shop.

There wasn't really any feeling of crafting involved, as were were still "buying" the potions. And they were so expensive, since there is a finite amount of gold you can find in each Act, you had to choose whether to craft potions or save up to buy a knockback immunity ring, or some similar important and expensive item.

Modifié par naughty99, 01 octobre 2012 - 10:38 .

[Wulfram]

I think the reason you couldn't craft the basic potions was because it would be rather a waste of money when they generate extra ones so that you never run out for long.

edit:  Also, I hate crafting.

Modifié par Wulfram, 01 octobre 2012 - 10:44 .

[naughty99]

Wulfram wrote...

I think the reason you couldn't craft the basic potions was because it would be rather a waste of money when they generate extra ones so that you never run out for long.

There are lots of RPGs with alchemy where you can craft potions that you can also find in random loot.

Perhaps the issue is that each of the three Acts were structured in a linear way, with a maximum amount of gold you could find, and maximum XP?

[naughty99]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Instead of moth eaten scarves, I would like to collect soup broth and chewed pencils.

 as long as we can craft something out of them, sure, why not?

[Arthur Cousland]

I would like to see the return of npcs who collect items, similar to the emissaries at the Warden's camp.  It felt strange collecting various gems and herbs in Awakening and not have anything to do with them but dump the stash on the nearest merchant, and the same thing took place in DA2.  Rather than having so many "junk" items, I'd like to find items that can be used in crafting, or traded in for xp, or just given money instead.

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 11 octobre 2012 - 03:35 .

[naughty99]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

I would like to see the return of npcs who collect items, similar to the emissaries at the Warden's camp.  It felt strange collecting various gems and herbs in Awakening and not have anything to do with them but dump the stash on the nearest merchant, and the same thing took place in DA2.  Rather than having so many "junk" items, I'd like to find items that can be used in crafting, or traded in for xp, or just given money instead.

Sounds really interesting, although I wonder what kind of NPC would be collecting torn pantaloons or moth-eaten scarves?

It would be fun if you can also break some things down into raw materials, like pantaloons into cloth scraps for crafting a bandage or perhaps even useful for making certain kinds of armor, or smelt down a tarnished steel bracelet to make ore for smithing, etc.

Modifié par naughty99, 12 octobre 2012 - 08:27 .

[Blessed Silence]

Xerxes52 wrote...

Honestly if Bioware keeps junk items useless like they are in DA2, I would suggest they just scrap junk altogether and replace it with its equivalent in coin.

So instead of finding a moth eaten scarf in a barrel that later sells for 10 copper, we'd find 10 copper in the barrel.

Indeed.   Good idea.  Even in DA:O I have to look some things up to see if they're trash or might be used later for a quest.  Meh.