207 réponses à ce sujet

[Palipride47]

MiSS Provencale wrote...

For me, the trailers are supposed to represent the very image of the game here is not talking about commercial or attractive to sell. Not me when I watch a trailer is for pleasure. If I feel a certain emotion so I buy. And that's what happened with Mass Effect. Why I discovered BioWare games. Simply because it is one of the only studios video game development that offers customized at will his character, and you really feel about yourself. The trailers must reflect this aspect. I'm sick of seeing the big Mr. Muscle have featured in trailers! Women too can be heroes. I'm sure that if a survey is done, we will realize that many people play a female character.

And a female character without a catsuit, no less!

Filament wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

Sarcasm and text are so incompatible [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]

Oh... it wasn't sarcasm either. I just, words.

What I meant was that a trailer about how you can do IMO basic "RPG stuff" would not really pique my interest. I'd rather see teasers about the story or gameplay. And I do think having both genders of the protagonist in one trailer could be confusing to people who aren't attached to bioware like a barnacle and don't seek immediate clarification from the devs about any uncertainty they might have (like, say, me, regarding any game that isn't produced by bioware). So I rather like the idea of the trailer character being a female rogue.

Whoops....argh, reading comprehension is a tricky thing....

Modifié par Palipride47, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:20 .

[Palipride47]

*double post*

Modifié par Palipride47, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:20 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

oui_je_danse wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And the gender of the people in the trailer is utterly irrelvant.

If video games and video game trailers, marketing and media didn't mostly feature white men this might be vaguely true. Alas - the other key demographics would also appreciate being acknowledged and advertised to.

Which is again pointelss and a waste of resources just to serve someones vanity. Pople keep hiding between loaded words like "fairness", "inclusivity" and "equality", but we know that's not the real reason.

I never let a trailer stop me from enjoying the game regardless who was in the trailer.
I care about what's actually inside the game.

[Plaintiff]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

oui_je_danse wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And the gender of the people in the trailer is utterly irrelvant.

If video games and video game trailers, marketing and media didn't mostly feature white men this might be vaguely true. Alas - the other key demographics would also appreciate being acknowledged and advertised to.

Which is again pointelss and a waste of resources just to serve someones vanity. Pople keep hiding between loaded words like "fairness", "inclusivity" and "equality", but we know that's not the real reason.

I never let a trailer stop me from enjoying the game regardless who was in the trailer.
I care about what's actually inside the game.

And how are people supposed to know what's inside the game without playing it? Why should they give it a chance in the first place if the trailer indicates that it will be something they won't enjoy; that ignores them or perpetuates harmful stereotypes?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 29 septembre 2012 - 08:25 .

[Wynne]

Skelter192 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Of course not, but if they are going to spend practically double the VO money to have a female PC, it might be helpful to let the demographic that you are catering to with that choice, actually know that it's an option.

Aren't males still the larger demographic? Why wouldn't EA spend more marketing to them instead of women?

Females were 42% just a few years ago. Now the number has jumped to 47%. Feeling a little less alone now? Don't worry, that feeling will increase.

The gap is closing rapidly. Gamer guys have girlfriends, and gamer dads--like mine--have kids who grow up to be people who can buy things, and on top of that, some girls just see something on tv and go, "hey, that looks cool. I have a female friend who's a gamer. Maybe there's something to that and I should try it."

People are used to seeing tall, buff white males everywhere they look, and are so bored with it that they could hurl. So what makes us sit up and take notice is something like the FemShep trailer. A gorgeous woman kicking ass is hardly a bad thing, yes? It worked for Morrigan and Izzy. Most guys like to look at women, and so do most women; everyone's got their reasons. Balance it well by making her look tough and sexy but not like she's decked out in hooker wear, as they did with Lady Hawke, and everybody's happy (especially Mike!). 

But it's still very important for them to let people know they can make their own protagonist, no matter which direction they go with it all. If choice is so important, it should be center stage--in the CGI trailer as well, not just the gameplay ones. Even if it's just a flash of the other possibilities, it should be there.

The problem with showing that and then showing a white male human is that it blends in with every other game out there. Dark skin, red hair, a feminine shape... these are all possible tools to make a protagonist, and thus the game, stand out. (Preferably not together, because dark skin with bright red hair looks so fake, but you get my drift.) 

Modifié par Wynne, 29 septembre 2012 - 08:37 .

[fchopin]

I don't care what they use, but i don't want to see the same scene using both.

If they took turns on which one to use that is fine.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Which is again pointelss and a waste of resources just to serve someones vanity. Pople keep hiding between loaded words like "fairness", "inclusivity" and "equality", but we know that's not the real reason.

I never let a trailer stop me from enjoying the game regardless who was in the trailer.
I care about what's actually inside the game.

And how are people supposed to know what's inside the game without playing it? Why should they give it a chance in the first place if the trailer indicates that it will be something they won't enjoy; that ignores them or perpetuates harmful stereotypes?

GAMEPLAY TRAILER.
Also FAQ's and news.

Harmfull stereotype? Wut?.....WIUT?
At this point the only harmfull stereotype I see is poeple like you.

[FINE HERE]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Which is again pointelss and a waste of resources just to serve someones vanity. Pople keep hiding between loaded words like "fairness", "inclusivity" and "equality", but we know that's not the real reason.

I never let a trailer stop me from enjoying the game regardless who was in the trailer.
I care about what's actually inside the game.

And how are people supposed to know what's inside the game without playing it? Why should they give it a chance in the first place if the trailer indicates that it will be something they won't enjoy; that ignores them or perpetuates harmful stereotypes?

GAMEPLAY TRAILER.
Also FAQ's and news.

Harmfull stereotype? Wut?.....WIUT?
At this point the only harmfull stereotype I see is poeple like you.

And most video games have their own website where you can read all about the game. And some have demos.
If you're going to customize your character anyway, why would it matter what kinda PC the trailer shows?

[Jerrybnsn]

I wouldn't mind a trailer with a female protagonist. In fact, I'm looking forward to it.

http://t1.gstatic.co...IGnw18Iqfz0pRCw

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 29 septembre 2012 - 10:20 .

[Plaintiff]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Which is again pointelss and a waste of resources just to serve someones vanity. Pople keep hiding between loaded words like "fairness", "inclusivity" and "equality", but we know that's not the real reason.

I never let a trailer stop me from enjoying the game regardless who was in the trailer.
I care about what's actually inside the game.

And how are people supposed to know what's inside the game without playing it? Why should they give it a chance in the first place if the trailer indicates that it will be something they won't enjoy; that ignores them or perpetuates harmful stereotypes?

GAMEPLAY TRAILER.
Also FAQ's and news.

Harmfull stereotype? Wut?.....WIUT?
At this point the only harmfull stereotype I see is poeple like you.

Gameplay trailers often require the potential consumer to go out of their way to look for them. Cinematic trailers are the ones that show up in the cinema, or on TV.

Why would a potential female consumer go out of their way to look for a gameplay trailer if the cinematic has clearly stated "This game is not for you"?

[Plaintiff]

FINE HERE wrote...
And most video games have their own website where you can read all about the game. And some have demos.
If you're going to customize your character anyway, why would it matter what kinda PC the trailer shows?

Oh lord.

People will not look at those websites if the cinematic trailer, the one they're most likely to see, exhibits a game they probably won't like. They will not download a demo for a game that looks like it doesn't want their business.

They will never know that they can customise their character because, say it with me: the trailer does not provide that information.

[FINE HERE]

Plaintiff wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...
And most video games have their own website where you can read all about the game. And some have demos.
If you're going to customize your character anyway, why would it matter what kinda PC the trailer shows?

Oh lord.

People will not look at those websites if the cinematic trailer, the one they're most likely to see, exhibits a game they probably won't like. They will not download a demo for a game that looks like it doesn't want their business.

They will never know that they can customise their character because, say it with me: the trailer does not provide that information.

But those things are provided SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE GAME AND DECIDE IF THEY LIKE IT. If they look at only the trailer, that's their problem. But there are other mediums where people can get information about the game. If people are uninterested, or just too lazy, to look for said information, that's not the marketing department's fault. If I see something I'm even remotely curious in, I look up info on it. Even if I think it might suck. I don't only look at one trailer and go: Well, that's gonna be garbage!

[Plaintiff]

FINE HERE wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...
And most video games have their own website where you can read all about the game. And some have demos.
If you're going to customize your character anyway, why would it matter what kinda PC the trailer shows?

Oh lord.

People will not look at those websites if the cinematic trailer, the one they're most likely to see, exhibits a game they probably won't like. They will not download a demo for a game that looks like it doesn't want their business.

They will never know that they can customise their character because, say it with me: the trailer does not provide that information.

But those things are provided SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE GAME AND DECIDE IF THEY LIKE IT. If they look at only the trailer, that's their problem. But there are other mediums where people can get information about the game. If people are uninterested, or just too lazy, to look for said information, that's not the marketing department's fault. If I see something I'm even remotely curious in, I look up info on it. Even if I think it might suck. I don't only look at one trailer and go: Well, that's gonna be garbage!

Why should women, or anyone else for that matter, go out of their way to find further infornation about a game that appears not to cater to them? It's not "providing" information if you keep it tucked away in your own corner of the internet and make no effort to spread it around.

If the marketing department makes a trailer that fails to interest people, that absolutely is their fault. If the trailers don't convey accurate information about the game, that is again on the shoulders of the people that made the trailer.

[Momiji.mii]

Like many others that have posted before me in this thread, I'd love a trailer that shows both the female and the male PC. Customisation is one of the selling points of RPG, so it'd be a natural fit.

I'm not against separate trailers for the male/female PC, but the problems with that is that some places may chose to only showcase one of them, and I bet it isn't going to be the one with the female lead. :/

Having both of them in the same trailer would push the envelope for female PC and female gamers a long way in the right direction and it'd be true to the progressive spirit of Bioware games.

[fchopin]

Momiji.mii wrote...

Like many others that have posted before me in this thread, I'd love a trailer that shows both the female and the male PC. Customisation is one of the selling points of RPG, so it'd be a natural fit.

I'm not against separate trailers for the male/female PC, but the problems with that is that some places may chose to only showcase one of them, and I bet it isn't going to be the one with the female lead. :/

Having both of them in the same trailer would push the envelope for female PC and female gamers a long way in the right direction and it'd be true to the progressive spirit of Bioware games.

Ok, i changed my mind and think showing both is the better way or at least show the customisation that both are possible.

[GGW KillerTiger]

thats1evildude wrote...

I hope it's accompanied by a bunch of morons whining about her hair colour again. That s**t was hilarious.

+1

[Fast Jimmy]

A trailer is for people who have never played the DA games before, possibly never played an RPG for. For people who are huge fans of the game, or who have played the games in the past, the fact that the trailer is on TV/online/etc. is enough, since it says 'the next dragon age game is coming out.' If they liked or played the previous games, that will be enough to get them to look into it more.

So essentially, everyone on this forum is not the target demographic for a trailer. If all the trailer included was the last 1.8 seconds (Dragon Age 3 - October 2013), then it would serve its purpose for everyone who is reading what I am posting now.

Covering the fact that you can play multiple classes, multiple play styles, multiple genders and (hopefully!) multiple races/origins is NOT something your average non-RPG player or your average non-video game player is aware of. And just because someone has never played a video game or RPG before doesn't mean they can't enjoy one, it just means they haven't seen something that has caught their interest.

I'm not advocating separate male/female protagonist trailers, like a male Shep and a femShep trailer. Because Shepherd's different classes and backgrounds still felt pretty similar, just different versions of an Alliance soldier. Where DA shines is the ability to make a character that is widely divergent, that feels like very different people. So showcasing that and not even HAVING a default protagonist, of EITHER gender, would be a smart way to have the trailer, as I outlined it earlier.

Showcasing the choice mechanic for the DA games, one of its biggest draws to date, is what the trailer should try and capture, not a story that people new to the series won't even get.

[MiSS Provencale]

Assassin's Creed Ubisoft in this case, we prove that they know how many trailers. I think Bioware can give us a trailer with a man and a woman with a trailer. I know that after this is a matter of money, but are trailers that make you want to buy. And as many people say they would be interesting to make trailers with other races.

[rager79]

I have no idea why they don't already show both male/female main characters in the trailer.

After all, how many guys play with a female character anyway!

Errr... that did not sound right... *cough*

[Il Divo]

MiSS Provencale wrote...

Assassin's Creed Ubisoft in this case, we prove that they know how many trailers. I think Bioware can give us a trailer with a man and a woman with a trailer. I know that after this is a matter of money, but are trailers that make you want to buy. And as many people say they would be interesting to make trailers with other races.

The AC guys do put out beautiful trailers.

[Il Divo]

Plaintiff wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...
And most video games have their own website where you can read all about the game. And some have demos.
If you're going to customize your character anyway, why would it matter what kinda PC the trailer shows?

Oh lord.

People will not look at those websites if the cinematic trailer, the one they're most likely to see, exhibits a game they probably won't like. They will not download a demo for a game that looks like it doesn't want their business.

They will never know that they can customise their character because, say it with me: the trailer does not provide that information.

The first trailer I ever saw of KotOR (one of my favorite games) gave no indication that there was interactive dialogue. Sure, there were taglines like "Choose your path", but that could have been as simple as choosing force powers. A trailer's job is not simply to convey accurate information, but to generate interest to learn more. Look at Dead Island's trailer, one I consider the best ever made. By all accounts, the game plays nothing like that heart-wrenching video. At the same time, I don't think a cinematic trailer of the dialogue choices in KotOR would have worked. What works for generating interest and conveying information aren't always the same thing. Showing off the DA:O auto-attack for example would make for lousy marketing.

Edit: That said, I don't mind the idea of a trailer with a female protagonist.

Modifié par Il Divo, 29 septembre 2012 - 03:00 .

[FINE HERE]

Plaintiff wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...
And most video games have their own website where you can read all about the game. And some have demos.
If you're going to customize your character anyway, why would it matter what kinda PC the trailer shows?

Oh lord.

People will not look at those websites if the cinematic trailer, the one they're most likely to see, exhibits a game they probably won't like. They will not download a demo for a game that looks like it doesn't want their business.

They will never know that they can customise their character because, say it with me: the trailer does not provide that information.

But those things are provided SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE GAME AND DECIDE IF THEY LIKE IT. If they look at only the trailer, that's their problem. But there are other mediums where people can get information about the game. If people are uninterested, or just too lazy, to look for said information, that's not the marketing department's fault. If I see something I'm even remotely curious in, I look up info on it. Even if I think it might suck. I don't only look at one trailer and go: Well, that's gonna be garbage!

Why should women, or anyone else for that matter, go out of their way to find further infornation about a game that appears not to cater to them? It's not "providing" information if you keep it tucked away in your own corner of the internet and make no effort to spread it around.

If the marketing department makes a trailer that fails to interest people, that absolutely is their fault. If the trailers don't convey accurate information about the game, that is again on the shoulders of the people that made the trailer.

I'm sorry, is your argument that a women wouldn't be interested or buy the game unless she saw in the trailer a female PC character? Because, speaking as a woman, that is stupid. Sure, because I already know about the DA series, I'd expect to be able to play as either gender, and new players might not, but it's not the only selling point the game has. I've played plenty of games were you're forced to play as a male character and I enjoyed them all the same. Mass Effect, didn't it not market in trailers femShep until the third game? Women still played it. I still played it. I understand that it would be nicer to see the game show that, but it's not the selling point.
Also, I should add in here, that I'm all for showing both genders(and other races, if it's an available option) as a slight segment or throughout the whole trailer. I just don't think it's the only thing stopping females(or males) from getting interested in the game.

Il Divo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...
And most video games have their own website where you can read all about the game. And some have demos.
If you're going to customize your character anyway, why would it matter what kinda PC the trailer shows?

Oh lord.

People will not look at those websites if the cinematic trailer, the one they're most likely to see, exhibits a game they probably won't like. They will not download a demo for a game that looks like it doesn't want their business.

They will never know that they can customise their character because, say it with me: the trailer does not provide that information.

The first trailer I ever saw of KotOR (one of my favorite games) gave no indication that there was interactive dialogue. Sure, there were taglines like "Choose your path", but that could have been as simple as choosing force powers. A trailer's job is not simply to convey accurate information, but to generate interest to learn more. Look at Dead Island's trailer, one I consider the best ever made. By all accounts, the game plays nothing like that heart-wrenching video. At the same time, I don't think a cinematic trailer of the dialogue choices in KotOR would have worked. What works for generating interest and conveying information aren't always the same thing. Showing off the DA:O auto-attack for example would make for lousy marketing.

Edit: That said, I don't mind the idea of a trailer with a female protagonist.

Yay. Thank you for saying what I apparently couldn't.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
GAMEPLAY TRAILER.
Also FAQ's and news.

Harmfull stereotype? Wut?.....WIUT?
At this point the only harmfull stereotype I see is poeple like you.

Gameplay trailers often require the potential consumer to go out of their way to look for them. Cinematic trailers are the ones that show up in the cinema, or on TV.

Why would a potential female consumer go out of their way to look for a gameplay trailer if the cinematic has clearly stated "This game is not for you"?

Nope.
Plenty of trailers have gameplay footage in them. And again, do you base all your purchases just on the trailer, or do you inform yourself beforehand? CGI trailers are pointless. Utterly pointless.


See,  I DISPISE people who make such a big deal out of the gender of the trailer character.
Why stop there? Let's have a trailer for every race too. And every sexual orinetation. And religious one.
I DEMAND a trialer with a black man praying in the Church.

[Annihilator27]

thats1evildude wrote...

I hope it's accompanied by a bunch of morons whining about her hair colour again. That s**t was hilarious.

Yes!!!! That was f****** hilarious.That was a 2 part vote system for Femshep wasnt it?

[Fiacre]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
GAMEPLAY TRAILER.
Also FAQ's and news.

Harmfull stereotype? Wut?.....WIUT?
At this point the only harmfull stereotype I see is poeple like you.

Gameplay trailers often require the potential consumer to go out of their way to look for them. Cinematic trailers are the ones that show up in the cinema, or on TV.

Why would a potential female consumer go out of their way to look for a gameplay trailer if the cinematic has clearly stated "This game is not for you"?

Nope.
Plenty of trailers have gameplay footage in them. And again, do you base all your purchases just on the trailer, or do you inform yourself beforehand? CGI trailers are pointless. Utterly pointless.


See,  I DISPISE people who make such a big deal out of the gender of the trailer character.
Why stop there? Let's have a trailer for every race too. And every sexual orinetation. And religious one.
I DEMAND a trialer with a black man praying in the Church.

For someone who thinks CGI trailers are pointless (which you are free to think, while others are free to disagree), you sure seem to have some strong feelings regarding them.

If they're so unnecessary, why not leave people who actually care about them to worry what's in them?