207 réponses à ce sujet

[Wynne]

 

Dagr88 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...
I hope it's accompanied by a bunch of m_____ whining about her hair colour again. That s**t was hilarious.

Yep. That might be a problem... A headgear which hides hair and face would be advisable.

It wasn't about hair color, wise guys. It was about the way the whole contest was conducted and the options that were presented and how they reflected on a badass military character established over 2 games. The world has enough fake blondes in Hollywood; it can tolerate a single video game redhead to make up for Lindsay Lohan jumping in a vat of bleach and bronzer.  

FINE HERE wrote...

But those things are provided SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE GAME AND DECIDE IF THEY LIKE IT. If they look at only the trailer, that's their problem. But there are other mediums where people can get information about the game. If people are uninterested, or just too lazy, to look for said information, that's not the marketing department's fault. If I see something I'm even remotely curious in, I look up info on it. Even if I think it might suck. I don't only look at one trailer and go: Well, that's gonna be garbage!

It's exactly that kind of attitude that would make you an awful marketer. What that looks like to me is, "Well, if you're not going to look up the information you want to know, I'm not going to give it to you easily! You should be willing to search for it, to the ends of the earth if you have to, because my game is special and you should know that!" Sure, maybe it is. But no one is psychic, and it's a marketer's job to communicate that "specialness" to the consumer, period. None of the people in marketing that I know would take the attitude you took. If they have different ideas about how to market their games than mine, it's certainly not based on "it's the consumer's job to know what's in my product." Quite the opposite--it's the marketer's job to, well, market something.

If there are a hundred games released this year, and I'm only going to buy about ten of them, why would I not only look at 100 trailers, but also go reading every single magazine article and website about every single one of them to glean all those little details that might pique my interest? I won't. I'll stick to the genres I like. Maybe I'll miss something, but I'll also miss a whole lot of crap that would bore me. If the God of War franchise all of a sudden let you play as Athena, or Bloodrayne suddenly became something other than female exploitation, maybe I'd sit up and take notice, but otherwise, it's just not likely that I'll care. So if the trailer for the next game in either series showed Kratos or bouncing vampire cleavage instead of anything vaguely up my alley why would I bother? Why should I, when there are other games out there which I know have female characters I can respect and appreciate? (Hell, that includes Isabela. She may be Ms. Fanservice, but she's also a pirate captain. And that's cool.)

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

See,  I DESPISE people who make such a big deal out of the gender of the trailer character. 
Why stop there? Let's have a trailer for every race too. And every sexual orinetation. And religious one.
I DEMAND a trialer with a black man praying in the Church.

 Noted, I'm despised. To be frank, I find that kind of attitude both arrogant and ignorant. You cannot compare a gender, meaning half the planet, with all the different skin colors and ethnicities on the planet and other much smaller percentages. (Although, considering the game lets you customize, showing that would not necessarily be a bad thing either.) I don't expect games to cater to my Scottish or Native American heritage, but it is hardly insanity to consider putting a female player character in a trailer, let alone a female alongside a male.

Black men received the right to vote in America in 1869, women in 1920. Black men received the right to vote in Canada in 1837; women in 1919. Women are the ones who are behind. People could accept that dark-skinned men were people with the minds of adults and valid opinions before they could accept that people with breasts were. 

To this day, the vast majority of women and men have at least a few skewed ideas about each other. Society is inherently unbalanced by a history of prejudice and stereotypes that have left their mark on the way all of us think. The only way that will truly change is if women are acknowledged by the population at large, and catered to by the industries they are customers of as much as men are.

Women now represent, according to the ESA, 47% of gamers (up from 42% just a few years back). The average male gamer likes to look at women, the average female gamer finds it interesting and encouraging to see someone of her own gender in a trailer, so can you give me one single good reason why there shouldn't be a woman up there? 

Aside from that, what Fiacre said.

Modifié par Wynne, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:53 .

[Fidget6]

.

Modifié par Fidget6, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:50 .

[MiSS Provencale]

As I often say, developers are no longer deny the obvious that half of the players are women. rpg are immersive and must adapt to male as female. For example I do not see myself playing the Witcher 2 simply because que'on can not custom character. Assassin's Creed alone makes me want to play a man as this game is so good and beautiful. I know it's stupid but it's like her!

[Morty Smith]

I also want a trailer that apeases to black people, asian people, kid´s who aren´t even of legal age to play the games, their mom´s and of course mittens.

[MiSS Provencale]

Why not!

[Plaintiff]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
GAMEPLAY TRAILER.
Also FAQ's and news.

Harmfull stereotype? Wut?.....WIUT?
At this point the only harmfull stereotype I see is poeple like you.

Gameplay trailers often require the potential consumer to go out of their way to look for them. Cinematic trailers are the ones that show up in the cinema, or on TV.

Why would a potential female consumer go out of their way to look for a gameplay trailer if the cinematic has clearly stated "This game is not for you"?

Nope.
Plenty of trailers have gameplay footage in them. And again, do you base all your purchases just on the trailer, or do you inform yourself beforehand? CGI trailers are pointless. Utterly pointless.


See,  I DISPISE people who make such a big deal out of the gender of the trailer character.
Why stop there? Let's have a trailer for every race too. And every sexual orinetation. And religious one.
I DEMAND a trialer with a black man praying in the Church.

I don't bother to seek further information about a game if its initial trailer has not iqued my interest.

I think the race and sexual orientation of the audience should be considered when making and marketing games.

At no point did I say everybody needs their own, seaprate trailer. The game companies could easily make one trailer that showcases several individuals to represent the multidimensional demographic they cater to, and it would not cost them any extra money, time or effort than it does to create a trailer that only shows a straight, white, male protagonist. The suggestion is not even slightly unreasonable.

You have no right to say that it isn't a "big deal". Obviously it is for quite a few people. I only assume from your complete lack of empathy and sense that you have no idea how it feels to have your demographic summarily ignored.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 01 octobre 2012 - 09:19 .

[Plaintiff]

FINE HERE wrote...

I'm sorry, is your argument that a women wouldn't be interested or buy the game unless she saw in the trailer a female PC character?

No. My argument is that showcasing a strong female character in the trailer for DA3 will be helpful for attracting new female gamers. It's not a "chick" thing, it's a people thing. People like to see themselves represented and straight white males get a damn sight more representation than everyone else, in video games and all other media.
 

Because, speaking as a woman, that is stupid. Sure, because I already know about the DA series, I'd expect to be able to play as either gender, and new players might not, but it's not the only selling point the game has. I've played plenty of games were you're forced to play as a male character and I enjoyed them all the same. Mass Effect, didn't it not market in trailers femShep until the third game? Women still played it. I still played it. I understand that it would be nicer to see the game show that, but it's not the selling point.

I'm a gay male. I still manage to play and enjoy games despite the fact that gay male characters are even rarer than decent female characters, but that doesn't mean that I'm happy about their absence from gaming generally, or that I don't think the situation could be improved.

It's not the selling point now, no, but it could be and I'd go so far as to say that it should be. A large chunk of gamers are women, and the gaming industry has come under fire more than once (and rightfully so) because its products tend to a) ignore women or exploit them. I'd also like to see racial and sexual minorities represented more fairly, come to that. But we must walk before we run, yes?

Dragon Age and other RPGs allow you to create whatever kind of character you want, but their trailers don't typically emphasize this, and instead opt to show you a homogenized, straight, white, male protagonist, which mens they don't differentiate themselves from the games where playing a straight white guy is your only option. DA:O's trailer featured Morrigan and Leliana, and that was pretty awesome, but the overall trend remains unchanged.

Also, I should add in here, that I'm all for showing both genders(and other races, if it's an available option) as a slight segment or throughout the whole trailer. I just don't think it's the only thing stopping females(or males) from getting interested in the game.

Well, no, it's probably not the only reason. There are any number of factors that might prevent someone from purchasing a given game. But we can reduce those factors by making gaming in general more inclusive for everybody.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 01 octobre 2012 - 09:36 .

[Kidd]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

do you base all your purchases just on the trailer, or do you inform yourself beforehand?

All right, humour me for a moment. Take a look at this trailer, will you? This is an extreme example, yes, but it should serve to show how this works. If that trailer came up in your face, from TV or a youtube playlist you stumbled upon or however it happened (perhaps having been linked to it from a user at the BSN), would you look up more information or trailers about the game for anything but titillation? I'm guessing if you aren't interested in gawking at polygon models with extremely bouncy breasts, you'd not give this game a single google after seeing this trailer.

Even so, Dead Or Alive Xtreme 2 is one of my most played games on the 360. It is an amazing and unique gaming experience that cannot be had elsewhere. It's incredibly niche however, and I can see why they'd air trailers like this in attempts to sell better. I could go on for a bit about how the game plays and whatnot, but it's not particularly relevant - would you google to find out after seeing said trailer, however?

[syllogi]

Kroitz wrote...

I also want a trailer that apeases to black people, asian people, kid´s who aren´t even of legal age to play the games, their mom´s and of course mittens.

I am a mother and of mixed race, and, I know this is shocking, but sit down...I'm also a consumer, and a gamer.  I purchase more than a dozen video games per year, on average, some years a lot more than that.  My money is as good as that of white male gamers aged 18-34.  I also buy games for my underaged child, so yeah, his voice as a consumer is heard too.

There's something really bizarre and messed up at work when someone thinks comparing marketing to black people, asians, children and mothers, is comparable to marketing to inanimate objects.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...
At no point did I say everybody needs their own, seaprate trailer. The game companies could easily make one trailer that showcases several individuals to represent the multidimensional demographic they cater to, and it would not cost them any extra money, time or effort than it does to create a trailer that only shows a straight, white, male protagonist. The suggestion is not even slightly unreasonable.

You have no right to say that it isn't a "big deal". Obviously it is for quite a few people. I only assume from your complete lack of empathy and sense that you have no idea how it feels to have your demographic summarily ignored.

You know what would make the traielr even cheaper and easier to make?
Not showign the PC at all.


And guess what?
I can say it's not a big deal. I have said it before. I said it now. And I will say it in the future.

KidDaBeauty
Even so, Dead Or Alive Xtreme 2 is one of my most played games on the
360. It is an amazing and unique gaming experience that cannot be had
elsewhere. It's incredibly niche however, and I can see why they'd air
trailers like this in attempts to sell better. I could go on for a bit
about how the game plays and whatnot, but it's not particularly relevant
- would you google to find out after seeing said trailer, however?

Nope. But that's because I already know about DoA.
Dunno. I might check it out if I feel a craving for a beat-em-up. But I already play mugen and several other such games, so that craving is satisfied.

Of course, if you dont' have an interest in a specific genre, no trailer will get you to purchase anyway, no matter how pretty.

[Kidd]

Dead Or Alive Xtreme 2 isn't a fighting game, it's a vacation simulator with strong dress-up features and somewhat shallow interpersonal relationships I believe the point is proven even if you didn't respond at all similarly to how I thought you would, though.

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:12 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

I haven't actually checked the trailer at all.

Thought it was just another game in the DoA series.

[Russalka]

Darling, darling, a business without advertising is like winking at a girl in the dark. You know you're doing it, but nobody else does.

[Nerdage]

Honestly, I'd prefer it if the trailer(s) didn't feature the protagonist at all, if they showed the state of the world instead; like how the SWTOR trailers showed the empire's return and the prelude to the treaty, because that's cool stuff to *see* rather than just hear or read about.

So if there was a trailer that showed some of the things Varric mentions at the end of DA2, like the templars splitting from the chantry or what have you, that could be cool.

But if the PC has to be in them then I guess it may as well be female this time, no need to make it 3 of 3 male. As for having both genders of PC in one trailer, or even in the marketing as a whole... seems like that would just confuse things.

[NRieh]

I'm afraid that only wat to get an "official" female protagonist face on a cover and in promos - to make some glamour and oversexualised "icon". The way it happened in ME3 - was just ugly and stupid. She did not have same "default" face through the series - and of a sudden we see some painted gurl in action and on covers. Anyway - she was not even close to my custom Shep, so it's not big difference between her and ShepLoo for me. Just another random face.

Probably, best thing they can do - show as little of Hero in trailers as it's possible, or do not show him (or her) at all. Because anyway huge part of players will make a custom character. There's no way to see "your" Hero in a trailer so far. So - every other model will still be a stranger, who cares about his(her) gender and class?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Wynne wrote...
Noted, I'm despised. To be frank, I find that kind of attitude both arrogant and ignorant. You cannot compare a gender, meaning half the planet, with all the different skin colors and ethnicities on the planet and other much smaller percentages.

I can't? Why not?
If percentage is your reason for not including something, then the same argument can be used for not including LG romances. After all, they are a much smaller percentage.

Either everyone or no one.

To this day, the vast majority of women and men have at least a few skewed ideas about each other. Society is inherently unbalanced by a history of prejudice and stereotypes that have left their mark on the way all of us think. The only way that will truly change is if women are acknowledged by the population at large, and catered to by the industries they are customers of as much as men are.

Yeah, yeah...your skewed political agenda (funny how positive things coming from discrimination for women and negative from men are always forgotten..) concernes me not

[Kidd]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yeah, yeah...your skewed political agenda (funny how positive things coming from discrimination for women and negative from men are always forgotten..) concernes me not

Please don't assume such things. It's not very polite to imply people do not care for the equality of men.

Frankly, most injustices toward men seem to be fixable by elevating the women anyway. Men can cry when crying is no longer associated with feminine weakness, men can keep parental rights more easily in custody battles when women aren't considered to be nurturing mothers by nature, and men can get the right to stay out of the draft when we drop the notion how women are ill suited for military life - or perhaps we're all drafted with no excuses, but at least that's equality.

As for "positive things" to come out of discrimination, I have a hard time believing there is such a thing from the view of society at large.

[Chaoswind]

Ok ok this took a turn for the worse and I may make it worse still... But it can't be helped.

Why should the trailers catter to females, are you implying that you need a 45 second short movie to validate your status as a gamer?

The best use of the resources would be to make a single trailer that caters to both genders.

Is sad how many women seem to think that the world should validate and give 2 ****s about their existence, bioware has their own marketing department and they are more than capable of deciding what kind of trailers they need to increase the impact and maximize revenue.

[Quicksilver26]

Chaoswind wrote...

Ok ok this took a turn for the worse and I may make it worse still... But it can't be helped.

Why should the trailers catter to females, are you implying that you need a 45 second short movie to validate your status as a gamer?

The best use of the resources would be to make a single trailer that caters to both genders.

Is sad how many women seem to think that the world should validate and give 2 ****s about their existence, bioware has their own marketing department and they are more than capable of deciding what kind of trailers they need to increase the impact and maximize revenue.

that was the OP point in the frist place 

[Chaoswind]

Then that was lost in the sea of flames and gender power fight

[Abraham_uk]

I don't see any reason not to have a female in a trailer.
But I won't be too bothered if they don't do it.

It's a nice way of letting potential customers know that there is the option to play a female.
This can be done without overly pandering to a female demographic.
To be perfectly honest, I don't really see where Bioware has ever overly pandered to a female demographic.
Bioware games have always been a lot more masculine in appeal.

Having females as equal counterparts is a very nice feature in most western RPG's.
Having this representated in trailers, is also very nice.

I'm quite glad that we even get the choice to play as a female character.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 01 octobre 2012 - 03:45 .

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Atalanta wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
This isn't about sales and marketing. To the fans here, it's about representaiton. So fine, EA is footing the bill for this anyway. Petition for a lady trailer. As far as her sexual orientation and race, well, you guys can settle that later. 

I don't know, I think it can be about both. I want more women to play video games

I don't.

[Lotion Soronarr]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yeah, yeah...your skewed political agenda (funny how positive things coming from discrimination for women and negative from men are always forgotten..) concernes me not

Please don't assume such things. It's not very polite to imply people do not care for the equality of men.

Frankly, most injustices toward men seem to be fixable by elevating the women anyway. Men can cry when crying is no longer associated with feminine weakness, men can keep parental rights more easily in custody battles when women aren't considered to be nurturing mothers by nature, and men can get the right to stay out of the draft when we drop the notion how women are ill suited for military life - or perhaps we're all drafted with no excuses, but at least that's equality.

As for "positive things" to come out of discrimination, I have a hard time believing there is such a thing from the view of society at large.

Oh no?

It's "women and children first" no?
Men have trought history been expendalbe.
Women were precious and to be protected, men were given the deadliest jobs. That's the prime reason why men were warriors (tough the physical advantage helped).

If a woman slaps a man on TV, whats your first reaction? Probably "he must have earned it"
If a man slaps a woman on TV, what's your first reaction? Probably "that bastard, how can he?"

Don't speak of compeltely equality.
It doesn't exist. It will never happen. and frankly I don't even see a need for it. Men and women aren't compeltey the same and I dont' see why they should be treated compeltely the same, in every last detail.


But that's neither here nor there and it's off-topic.

[scootermcgaffin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yeah, yeah...your skewed political agenda (funny how positive things coming from discrimination for women and negative from men are always forgotten..) concernes me not

Please don't assume such things. It's not very polite to imply people do not care for the equality of men.

Frankly, most injustices toward men seem to be fixable by elevating the women anyway. Men can cry when crying is no longer associated with feminine weakness, men can keep parental rights more easily in custody battles when women aren't considered to be nurturing mothers by nature, and men can get the right to stay out of the draft when we drop the notion how women are ill suited for military life - or perhaps we're all drafted with no excuses, but at least that's equality.

As for "positive things" to come out of discrimination, I have a hard time believing there is such a thing from the view of society at large.

Oh no?

It's "women and children first" no?
Men have trought history been expendalbe.
Women were precious and to be protected, men were given the deadliest jobs. That's the prime reason why men were warriors (tough the physical advantage helped).

If a woman slaps a man on TV, whats your first reaction? Probably "he must have earned it"
If a man slaps a woman on TV, what's your first reaction? Probably "that bastard, how can he?"

Don't speak of compeltely equality.
It doesn't exist. It will never happen. and frankly I don't even see a need for it. Men and women aren't compeltey the same and I dont' see why they should be treated compeltely the same, in every last detail.


But that's neither here nor there and it's off-topic.

...yeah, you're right. It's so tough to be a dude.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Tell that to the millions that died doing all the deadliest jobs over the course of history.

And lay off the sarcasm.
Comparing the hardships of men and women is irrelevant, as that was not the point.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 01 octobre 2012 - 09:30 .