339 réponses à ce sujet

[ryanshowseason3]

I know of two ways to end the debate on whether it is biotic or not...

Martial Biotic Amp
Adaptive War Amp

Both increase *only* biotic damage. Not power or tech damage.

Kai leng's version may be special and not the same "model" being used by us in MP.

It can be tested one way or the other through those gears though.

[CronicleChicken]

I think that the game needs a "true" damage system. The game can't just magically take my shields down or magically know that I am cloaked when I'm in cover and can't see them and they can't "see" me. They have guns. We have guns. Phantoms have phase disruptors that doesn't take away from their barriers, neither should we. If our phase disruptor consumes our barriers, it should consume theirs.

Just saying...

Modifié par CronicleChicken, 28 septembre 2012 - 02:15 .

[DS Monkfish]

I like this idea very much. It's pretty much the only thing that would make me consider a shadow build other than my current pure melee setup.

I loathe ES, never spec into it, can't stand playing with anyone spamming it - and that's why I leave any lobby with another Shadow. Just in case.

[Richter Harken]

DeathIsHere wrote...

While Kai Leng may not be a biotic, he's implanted with Reaper technology due to Cerberus and used a somewhat biotic-ish barrier on Thessia. It's fair enough to assume he's got a bit of biotic capabilities thanks to Cerberus and the Phantom palm blaster would be one of them.

The phantom hand blaster is not phase disruptor, it's a built-in paladin pistol (or at least behaves like one).
It does not make beams, explosions, area damage and knockback or drain the phantom's barrier. It goes pew pew damage in volleys of 4 to 3 shots (Hers didn't get nerfed XD).

Modifié par Richter Harken, 28 septembre 2012 - 02:22 .

[Richter Harken]

ryanshowseason3 wrote...

I know of two ways to end the debate on whether it is biotic or not...

Martial Biotic Amp
Adaptive War Amp

Both increase *only* biotic damage. Not power or tech damage.

Kai leng's version may be special and not the same "model" being used by us in MP.

It can be tested one way or the other through those gears though.

According to Narida's class builder, Phase Disruptor is affected by Martial Biotic Amp and Adaptative War Amp, and not affected by the Engineering Kit, which would classify it a a biotic power with 100% certainty. I'm too lazy to test it myself though.

Modifié par Richter Harken, 28 septembre 2012 - 02:26 .

[ryanshowseason3]

Richter Harken wrote...

ryanshowseason3 wrote...

I know of two ways to end the debate on whether it is biotic or not...

Martial Biotic Amp
Adaptive War Amp

Both increase *only* biotic damage. Not power or tech damage.

Kai leng's version may be special and not the same "model" being used by us in MP.

It can be tested one way or the other through those gears though.

According to Narida's class builder, Phase Disruptor is affected by Martial Biotic Amp and Adaptative War Amp, and not affected by the Engineering Kit, which would classify it a a biotic power with 100% certainty. I have not tested it myself though.

Thanks for the input, Narida's though isn't equivalent to the game. Whoever made it is just as likely to fall into the assumptions we made on both sides of the argument. At least I don't think that builder is based on live gameplay data.

Unfortunately I lack the slayer to test this in game.

[DeathIsHere]

ryanshowseason3 wrote...

I know of two ways to end the debate on whether it is biotic or not...

Martial Biotic Amp
Adaptive War Amp

Both increase *only* biotic damage. Not power or tech damage.

Kai leng's version may be special and not the same "model" being used by us in MP.

It can be tested one way or the other through those gears though.

I'm fairly certain as far as damage and such is concerned, PD isn't considered a biotic power. That part of this topic is correct. I've done a bit of checking around, it doesn't give Biotic Kill medals so it's not considered Biotic damage-wise. I still believe that in the grand scope of things it's a biotic power, in the same sense that Arc Grenades are a tech power. It just makes sense. Even if it wasn't and was a strictly combat power no matter what, I don't think it synergizes with the Shadow's style. The shield drain portion of Shadow Strike is very situational compared to Biotic Charge so you'd be depleting your shields with no way to get them back quickly, nine times out of ten. Add that with the fact that in cloak you don't regen shields and the mechanic for the power itself could possibly cause problems with Cloak (If it doesn't have a cooldown, how does it interact with cloak? Will it count as a power and break or will it do what grenades do and just leave you in cloak?) and it just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Let the spammers spam. When it comes time for them to stop spamming and try something else, they'll regret spending so much time doing it and that's all we can hope for. The Shadow has so much to offer as it is, with ES giving it crowd control and SS/Melee giving it heavy damage dealing single powers. The Shadow is a very fun class and I personally don't think a Phase Disruptor would fit well with it. If we HAD to change ES to something else, give the Shadow Arc Grenades. They accomplish the same goal with less spammability. I'd gripe because it's less unique, but it'd be better than a phase disruptor imo.

[Richter Harken]

ryanshowseason3 wrote...
Thanks for the input, Narida's though isn't equivalent to the game. Whoever made it is just as likely to fall into the assumptions we made on both sides of the argument. At least I don't think that builder is based on live gameplay data.

Unfortunately I lack the slayer to test this in game.

I think it's based on the tests and information that get posted here on the forums, so yeah it's possible that she's mistaken.

[bunnylover]

Slash and Shockwave haters gonna hate. The community has spoken in your poll. Valiant effort, sir, but how long until you give up?

[bunnylover]

Air Quotes wrote...
LOL. 70 people. Community.

Watching you hang on is cute.  Good luck LOLing your way to defeat.  
I think that the reason that you and many others hate the slashes so much is because there are so many people that do just spam it.  Sure, it can be used that way, but I know that you're good at this game so you probably know more than others the true power that lies in these moves when used in team play.  These moves are detonators, intended to keep power combos constantly firing.  Maybe that's more true with Shockwave, but it can be true with the slashes as well.  I admit that their long animations make them more suitable for camping strategies. Not that anything's wrong with camping though.  Demolisher + Shadow = awesome camp.  Justicar/Fury + Slayer = awesome camp.  

A Shadow can be the ultimate spawn destroying, sneaky murderer with Electric Slash and a power-combo aware team.  A Slayer can be the 2nd best Biotic detonator (What's up, NovaGuard?), when he chooses targets effectively for maximum biotic detonations and doesn't charge into groups of enemies.

Don't let people who suck at this game, skew you, a good player, towards disolving some of the mechanics and strategies that Bioware built in to the game purposefully.  Sucky players will always suck, but informed players that understand the way that the game works and can still use this power effectively want it.  

Modifié par bunnylover, 28 septembre 2012 - 04:11 .

[ryanshowseason3]

Air Quotes wrote...

And you people still don't get what this topic is about.

Phase/Tech, drain shields or not, that's ANOTHER discussion. The question is what is more fun, cool and dynamic? Some boring ES or a palm blaster?

Air Quotes wrote...

ryanshowseason3 wrote...

biotic power for a non biotic...

It's NOT a biotic power. READ the previous posts.

Well then follow your own advice and don't continue the discussion yourself. But its part of the discussion, if its a biotic power it just seems stupid to put it on a non biotic character. Might as well put vorcha's bloodlust power on a geth, or hunter mode on a krogan.

I think a lot of people have it right though when they say you'd be left defenseless. The shield drain mechanic isn't as universal as charge, and you'd have to shoot at things that didn't have shields since you wouldn't want to remove the shields from whatever you were intending on draining them from.

So practicality is questionable.

Sure its cool but an elcor with gundam armor and 8 gatling guns attached to their back would be cool too. The rule of cool is not a good enough reason to do something. Palm blaster on shadow as it stands is either situational or suicidal. As much as I hate the power ES can be used much more often than PD on this character. Doing this would be the embodiement of the phrase YOLO. (which I hate)

Also please show me one time one of these polls has changed something like a character's loadout. I may be proven wrong but I think BW is pretty sure they are not changing a character's loadout at the whim of any amount of players.

[DeathIsHere]

Air Quotes wrote...

And you people still don't get what this topic is about.

Phase/Tech, drain shields or not, that's ANOTHER discussion. The question is what is more fun, cool and dynamic? Some boring ES or a palm blaster?

Who's to say a palm blaster wouldn't be boring? And actually, who are you to say ES is boring? You're basing this off spammers and you're trying to gimp the entire class because you don't find spamming fun. Good, I'm glad to hear you don't find spamming fun. But I find ES fun, cool, and dynamic, and apparently so does 59% of the people who have seen this topic.

[Silasqtx]

Brutally Thumbs down. ITS ONLY MINE, MINE MINEEEE (N7 Slayer quote)

Modifié par Silasqtx, 28 septembre 2012 - 05:50 .

[SimulatedSnowman]

I agree that Electric Slash doesn't really fit in with the Shadow. When I use the Shadow, I play like a mid level assassin. I kill Pyros and Engineers and Marauders all day long, and I try to stay away from getting mired down in fighting swarms or big bosses. Electric slash is a crowd control power, and due to it's long animation, is not something I'll ever do while in a fight. Phase Distruptor does seem to be more synergistic for my playstyle. I can imagine cloaking, PD, and then shadow slash, and then PD, cloak and so on until all the things die.

However I don't think that switching powers means "fun and dynamic gameplay". I gave an example of how I'd play, but that's not everyone. Some people want to have electric slash and like that you can spam it from cover, or that it does a good job of stopping low level badguys at a distance. It lends to different ways to play the class, which is more dynamic in my mind. Cool idea though.

[Silasqtx]

Air Quotes wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

Brutally Thumbs down. ITS MINE, MINE AND MINE ONLY (N7 Slayer quote)

One more dude who didn't read before posting. 

I did read your post, but what your top scientists didn't forsee is that I stand by my judgement.

To balance the Shadow you need to balance the Slayer too. Considering THE class skill (TC for Shadow, BC for Slayer) there are two powers to pick which are (surprise surprise) the ability that makes each class unique. Since both of them have this idiotic kung-fu panda move that grasps the uselessness of a labradoodle in combat and the annoying-ness (pardon my french) of a 7 yo german Kid yelling at his mother, you have TWO choices:

They both get PD replacing the Slash (similar to what you proposed in the OP) and get a new ability (I'd vote for this)

They stay where they are because adding PD to the shadow would ruin the Slayer (cmon, TC + Assassination (ups) and PD? Overpowered).

Im surprised no one said to fasten up the shadow strike animation, it's so slow that sometimes you get killed by "the same old Geth Turret" before you even land one blow.

[Learn To Love Yourself]

Silasqtx wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

Brutally Thumbs down. ITS MINE, MINE AND MINE ONLY (N7 Slayer quote)

One more dude who didn't read before posting. 

I did read your post, but what your top scientists didn't forsee is that I stand by my judgement.

To balance the Shadow you need to balance the Slayer too. Considering THE class skill (TC for Shadow, BC for Slayer) there are two powers to pick which are (surprise surprise) the ability that makes each class unique. Since both of them have this idiotic kung-fu panda move that grasps the uselessness of a labradoodle in combat and the annoying-ness (pardon my french) of a 7 yo german Kid yelling at his mother, you have TWO choices:

They both get PD replacing the Slash (similar to what you proposed in the OP) and get a new ability (I'd vote for this)

They stay where they are because adding PD to the shadow would ruin the Slayer (cmon, TC + Assassination (ups) and PD? Overpowered).

Im surprised no one said to fasten up the shadow strike animation, it's so slow that sometimes you get killed by "the same old Geth Turret" before you even land one blow.

But the Slayer has BC which refills your barriers.  I would still play the Slayer over the Shadow in many cases, but I do think PD would be cool on the Shadow, even if it were at a different level of damage, as AQ has mentioned earlier.

[Silasqtx]

Jack Crapper wrote...

But the Slayer has BC which refills your barriers.  I would still play the Slayer over the Shadow in many cases, but I do think PD would be cool on the Shadow, even if it were at a different level of damage, as AQ has mentioned earlier.

You're missing my point. I'd love to see a PD on a Shadow, but not if all stays the same. It wouldn't be fair to us Slayer users.

Ditching Slash for PD for BOTH of them (meaning Shadow is the new God, with TC, SS and PD) and the Slayer with a brand new ability (maybe something not so overpowered, like dark channel *cough*)

Modifié par Silasqtx, 28 septembre 2012 - 06:21 .

[Silasqtx]

Air Quotes wrote...

Shadows PD could COMPLETELY different. It could be like Phantoms PD. It could be something entirely new. The point is that ES scuks and doen't FIT her style. (yeah, yeah it's my opinion) 

God I hope not like Phantom's PD xD
Oh you're not the only one. I think the same of the Slayer's Slash.

[DeathScepter]

Air Quotes wrote...



Please get rid of Electric Slash and give Shadow a Phase Disruptor.

Reason Nr.1:
She already has a palm blaster thingy that is not utilized  

Reason Nr.2 and most important:

Gameplay! Electric Slash ruins the flow and the dynamic nature of the Shadow as a CQC character. It's generic, slow, boring and unexciting to use! And it's annoying too. It's powerful, yes, but it just screams "spam me while hiding behind a wall till the end of time". And people do that. I had lots of matches were players did NOTHING else but spammed ES behind walls. It's no risk power with big reward. 

Phase Disruptor however would be a much more fun power that would involve shields management, proper positioning and use of Shadow Strike. It would provide balance between risk and reward.

Phase Disruptor just SUITS the Shadow as it suits the Phantom. 

Please make it happen Bioware. Pretty please?  

Poll here: 

social.bioware.com/3772456/polls/39869/


 

she is quite pretty.

I was thinking that we have a playable Cerberus Phantom. Basicly A Biotic Inflirator.