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[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Use templars to fuel powerful blood magic spells to defeat the enemy.

Strictly speaking, we should be able to do that anyway. I mean, if they're the enemy, they'll be dead regardless, so their blood should be a freely usable resource, yes? Just so long as we don't kill anyone who's actually surrendered.

Blood magic is a necessity. Fueling powerful spells with living templars could allow the rebels to accomplish grandiose spells. Mind control is also an effective way to make a templar surrender. I'm sure the lyrium withdrawal would be a factor for their mental health, depending on their access to it, but blood magic should work regardless.

[brushyourteeth]

Xilizhra wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, we're in the "Evil for the hell of it" thread, so I figured why not?

Use templars to fuel powerful blood magic spells to defeat the enemy.

I had a dream about that once. It was horrifying. 

Which end were you on?

I was an apostate. Traveling through a village on my escape from the Templars. There was a demon constantly whispering, wanting me to join with it. It raised the dead in the graveyard outside the little Chantry. Corpses were eating innocent villagers. Not just attacking - eating.

The Templars arrived. I couldn't just let the corpses destroy the village. I made a choice. I felt the Templars' lives drain out of their bodies when I used their blood to kill the corpses. But the villagers didn't understand. They thought I was a monster. I felt like a monster. The Templars' blood wasn't enough - there were too many corpses still living. So I drained the life from the few villagers around me who were already mortally wounded. I heard them screaming. It was awful.

In the end, I was so weak, and almost everyone in the village was dead. There was a flash of light, and this awful laughter. I think I finally became an abomination. And then I woke up sweating.

It was probably the worst dream I've ever had. And it didn't happen in DA-style graphics. It was so real. The corpses, the blood, the eating. I felt hot and sticky every time I chose another victim, like I'd had a bucket of fresh blood poured over me. The power was incredible, but it didn't feel right. I was trading their life for mine. And even though I did it to save them, I also killed them.

Yeah. Traumatic. So much for bedtime. 

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 28 septembre 2012 - 05:32 .

[TEWR]

Xilizhra wrote...

I think your sentence there is clinically schizophrenic. Not you, just that sentence. It makes... no sense no matter how I try to parse it. Is slavery somehow necessary to have a life worth living

I think that's generally the point Bioware wanted to convey. That the Qunari are so confusing in their ideology that some of what they say seems to contradict itself, yet nonetheless is true. Qunari and confusion go hand in hand like Sandal and pie.

Look at Sten. He enjoys his life as a soldier, not just because he's good at it and that's where he was sent, but also because of the brothers he's made in such a life.

And then look at the story he tells of the people who would venture out into the cold and harsh wilderness just to find any trace of their lost friend(s) -- killed by Tal-Vashoth.

Xilizhra wrote...

So do Andrastian mages who become Grey Wardens, and they don't have to become ideological enforcers, forcing the same state they were in upon every mage they come across.

They did, once upon a time.

Xilizhra wrote...

If the darkspawn don't count, inherently possessing little to no free will, the Qun is the most perfect evil we've ever seen on Thedas.

I don't even count the Darkspawn as evil myself, Disciplehood or no. And I just... can't see the Qun as evil.

Xilizhra wrote...

There is no compromise. If Justinia would try to keep the mages under any sort of Chantry control whatsoever, her aid is of no use in the long run. Also, **** the Divine

I suppose it depends on just what she's willing to do, now that her own Templars and the majority of her Seekers have broken away from her. Perhaps she's seen how the Order is flawed and how the Chantry control of the Mages isn't a good thing.

Maybe she's even willing to make it so that the Chantry doesn't have complete control.

We know very little about what she'll do now, going forward. Only what she wanted to do before things fell apart.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 septembre 2012 - 05:34 .

[Xilizhra]

Blood magic is a necessity. Fueling powerful spells with living templars could allow the rebels to accomplish grandiose spells. Mind control is also an effective way to make a templar surrender. I'm sure the lyrium withdrawal would be a factor for their mental health, depending on their access to it, but blood magic should work regardless.

How would these grandiose spells be implemented in-game, though? As special events? Would they be class-dependent?

I was an apostate. Traveling through a village on my escape from the Templars. There was a demon constantly whispering, wanting me to join with it. It raised the dead in the graveyard outside the little Chantry. Corpses were eating innocent villagers. Not just attacking - eating.

The Templars arrived. I couldn't just let the corpses destroy the village. I made a choice. I felt the Templars' lives drain out of their bodies when I used their blood to kill the corpses. But the villagers didn't understand. They thought I was a monster. I felt like a monster. The Templars' blood wasn't enough - there were too many corpses still living. So I drained the life from the few villagers around me who were already mortally wounded. I heard them screaming. It was awful.

In the end, I was so weak, and almost everyone in the village was dead. There was a flash of light, and this awful laughter. I think I finally became an abomination. And then I woke up sweating.

It was probably the worst dream I've ever had. And it didn't happen in DA-style graphics. It was so real. The corpses, the blood, the eating. I felt hot and sticky every time I chose another victim, like I'd had a bucket of fresh blood poured over me. The power was incredible, but it didn't feel right. I was trading their life for mine. And even though I did it to save them, I also killed them.

Rest assured, I seriously doubt you'd need that much blood to kill a few corpses in reality.

[LobselVith8]

Eveangaline wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Use templars to fuel powerful blood magic spells to defeat the enemy.

Curse all templars to have mage children or nieces and nephews.

Sandal's prophecy is already taking care of that. :happy:

[Xilizhra]

I think that's generally the point Bioware wanted to convey. That the Qunari are so confusing in their ideology that some of what they say seems to contradict itself, yet nonetheless is true. Qunari and confusion go hand in hand like Sandal and pie.

Look at Sten. He enjoys his life as a soldier, not just because he's good at it and that's where he was sent, but also because of the brothers he's made in such a life.

And then look at the story he tells of the people who would venture out into the cold and harsh wilderness just to find any trace of their lost friend(s) -- killed by Tal-Vashoth.

There are those who find happiness in slavery/conformity, true. Ultimately, this is less important than the lot of those unjustly oppressed.

They did, once upon a time.

Despite being riddled with flaws, Andrastian society changes. The Qun does not.

I don't even count the Darkspawn as evil myself, Disciplehood or no. And I just... can't see the Qun as evil.

The Qun is as evil as any magister or templar, arguably worse in some ways. It mandates bloody conquest as a means of conversion and hideous tortures to be inflicted upon all mages.

Maybe she's even willing to make it so that the Chantry doesn't have complete control.

The Chantry shouldn't have any control.

[TEWR]

Yeah. Traumatic. So much for bedtime.

That does sound pretty horrifying, actually.

Though I wonder if you would've been able to use the blood of the corpses -- in this case, the demonic ichor that smells of sulphur -- to power your spells instead of the villagers.

[brushyourteeth]

Xilizhra wrote...

I was an apostate. Traveling through a village on my escape from the Templars. There was a demon constantly whispering, wanting me to join with it. It raised the dead in the graveyard outside the little Chantry. Corpses were eating innocent villagers. Not just attacking - eating.

The Templars arrived. I couldn't just let the corpses destroy the village. I made a choice. I felt the Templars' lives drain out of their bodies when I used their blood to kill the corpses. But the villagers didn't understand. They thought I was a monster. I felt like a monster. The Templars' blood wasn't enough - there were too many corpses still living. So I drained the life from the few villagers around me who were already mortally wounded. I heard them screaming. It was awful.

In the end, I was so weak, and almost everyone in the village was dead. There was a flash of light, and this awful laughter. I think I finally became an abomination. And then I woke up sweating.

It was probably the worst dream I've ever had. And it didn't happen in DA-style graphics. It was so real. The corpses, the blood, the eating. I felt hot and sticky every time I chose another victim, like I'd had a bucket of fresh blood poured over me. The power was incredible, but it didn't feel right. I was trading their life for mine. And even though I did it to save them, I also killed them.

Rest assured, I seriously doubt you'd need that much blood to kill a few corpses in reality.

In reality, I won't have to worry about zombies or blood magic. But thanks for the kind reassurance anyway. 

[Xilizhra]

I meant, in the reality of Thedas. Truth be told, I envy your ability to remember your dreams.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Blood magic is a necessity. Fueling powerful spells with living templars could allow the rebels to accomplish grandiose spells. Mind control is also an effective way to make a templar surrender. I'm sure the lyrium withdrawal would be a factor for their mental health, depending on their access to it, but blood magic should work regardless.

How would these grandiose spells be implemented in-game, though? As special events? Would they be class-dependent?

Special events to deal with an army of templars for the epic scenes (by using their blood for fuel), while mind control could be used to deal with occasional templars and Seekers. The templars have the Rite of Tranquility, and the mages have blood magic. No capitulation to the enemy. No appeasement deals with the Divine.

[brushyourteeth]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yeah. Traumatic. So much for bedtime.

That does sound pretty horrifying, actually.

Though I wonder if you would've been able to use the blood of the corpses -- in this case, the demonic ichor that smells of sulphur -- to power your spells instead of the villagers.

No telling. I guess it would depend on whether that counts as blood or if blood magic could use a different substance. Couldn't tell you.

Interestingly, I think that means I wasn't in Ferelden. 'Cause I think they usually choose to burn their dead. Which is probably smart, now that I think of it.

Anyway, thanks for the empathy - it's appreciated. 

[brushyourteeth]

Xilizhra wrote...

I meant, in the reality of Thedas. Truth be told, I envy your ability to remember your dreams.

Haha. My bad!

I remember that one. You would too. Yikes.

[Xilizhra]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Blood magic is a necessity. Fueling powerful spells with living templars could allow the rebels to accomplish grandiose spells. Mind control is also an effective way to make a templar surrender. I'm sure the lyrium withdrawal would be a factor for their mental health, depending on their access to it, but blood magic should work regardless.

How would these grandiose spells be implemented in-game, though? As special events? Would they be class-dependent?

Special events to deal with an army of templars for the epic scenes (by using their blood for fuel), while mind control could be used to deal with occasional templars and Seekers. The templars have the Rite of Tranquility, and the mages have blood magic. No capitulation to the enemy. No appeasement deals with the Divine.

Hmmm. I don't know if this'd be a protagonist-used thing... I can see it happening if you encourage and/or allow the mage rebellion to use blood magic, though. A means of expanding one's options, at any rate; the use of mind control could be a personal thing, though, if you happen to be a blood mage (if it can be like Dominate in VtM Bloodlines, it'll be awesome).

[brushyourteeth]

D-Gaid's has said that he'd like blood magic mind control to be a bigger part of DAIII if it's offered as a specialization (and you know it probably will be).

My guess is we'd have the chance to use it like a coerce/persuade option. But 100% effective.

[LobselVith8]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I meant, in the reality of Thedas. Truth be told, I envy your ability to remember your dreams.

Haha. My bad!

I remember that one. You would too. Yikes.

Interesting dream. That story cautions me that there is strength in numbers. Good warning for the rebel mages; Duncan's tale of a blood mage also ended poorly because he was on his own.

[Plaintiff]

brushyourteeth wrote...
I was an apostate. Traveling through a village on my escape from the Templars. There was a demon constantly whispering, wanting me to join with it. It raised the dead in the graveyard outside the little Chantry. Corpses were eating innocent villagers. Not just attacking - eating.

The Templars arrived. I couldn't just let the corpses destroy the village. I made a choice. I felt the Templars' lives drain out of their bodies when I used their blood to kill the corpses. But the villagers didn't understand. They thought I was a monster. I felt like a monster. The Templars' blood wasn't enough - there were too many corpses still living. So I drained the life from the few villagers around me who were already mortally wounded. I heard them screaming. It was awful.

In the end, I was so weak, and almost everyone in the village was dead. There was a flash of light, and this awful laughter. I think I finally became an abomination. And then I woke up sweating.

It was probably the worst dream I've ever had. And it didn't happen in DA-style graphics. It was so real. The corpses, the blood, the eating. I felt hot and sticky every time I chose another victim, like I'd had a bucket of fresh blood poured over me. The power was incredible, but it didn't feel right. I was trading their life for mine. And even though I did it to save them, I also killed them.

Yeah. Traumatic. So much for bedtime. 

Man, that dream is kickass!

The most recent dream I remember, I found a limping tiger cub in my backyard. I put it in a box to take it to the vet, but every time I looked in there, it had turned into something else.

[brushyourteeth]

LobselVith8 wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I meant, in the reality of Thedas. Truth be told, I envy your ability to remember your dreams.

Haha. My bad!

I remember that one. You would too. Yikes.

Interesting dream. That story cautions me that there is strength in numbers. Good warning for the rebel mages; Duncan's tale of a blood mage also ended poorly because he was on his own.

Glad I could be of service, ser.

And don't forget - if you must do blood magic, don't exhaust yourself and your resources to the point of being vulnerable to demonic possession.

Also, maybe don't let the common folk see you using blood magic. If the demon hadn't got me, the peasants who survived might have tried. Perspective changes when you see someone leaching Aunt Nancy's life's blood to use magic.

And on that note, I go to bed.

[brushyourteeth]

Plaintiff wrote...

Man, that dream is kickass!

The most recent dream I remember, I found a limping tiger cub in my backyard. I put it in a box to take it to the vet, but every time I looked in there, it had turned into something else.

Ooh - like on Lost? I'd trade dreams. Want to?

I thought about making a thread to discuss it months ago, but I figured the pro-blood magic players would eat me alive.

[TEWR]

brushyourteeth wrote...

No telling. I guess it would depend on whether that counts as blood or if blood magic could use a different substance. Couldn't tell you.

Interestingly, I think that means I wasn't in Ferelden. 'Cause I think they usually choose to burn their dead. Which is probably smart, now that I think of it.

You might've been in Nevarra, as they don't burn their dead. Though their dead are often enshrined in elaborate tombs. Whether the commoners also do this, I don't know. Probably not.

So yea, Nevarra would be my guess.

[TEWR]

Xilizhra wrote...

It mandates bloody conquest as a means of conversion and hideous tortures to be inflicted upon all mages.

Those are only two of its tenets, not the ideology on the whole. They are, however, the two major things I am not a fan of in the Qun.

Others are the severed connection to your biological family and the relentless pursuit of all Vashoth, violent or no.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Qunari don't pursue all vasoth, and primarily only hunt down the viiolent Tal-Vasoth within their own borders. And while severance of biological family may seem terrifying for us, we must first understand Qunari values of such things. You cant miss what you have never known, and no Qunari ever knew his biological family, so being severed from it, is no big deal.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Qunari don't pursue all vasoth, and primarily only hunt down the viiolent Tal-Vasoth within their own borders.

Ah, is that so? I was led to believe based on Arvaarad's dialogue that they do hunt all Vashoth. But only the violent ones you say?

That's good. That's what I want the Qunari to do.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And while severance of biological family may seem terrifying for us, we must first understand Qunari values of such things. You cant miss what you have never known, and no Qunari ever knew his biological family, so being severed from it, is no big deal.

True enough.

Also, you've either been off the forums for a while or you've been hiding. Either way, welcome back to the DA boards!

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Qunari don't pursue all vasoth, and primarily only hunt down the viiolent Tal-Vasoth within their own borders.

Ah, is that so? I was led to believe based on Arvaarad's dialogue that they do hunt all Vashoth. But only the violent ones you say?

That's good. That's what I want the Qunari to do.

Part of an Arvaraad's task is to hunt Tal-Vasoth, not Vasoth in general. That however does not mean that Qunari ignore Vasoth within their own lands. But that isn't so strange. After all, we don't tolerate people within our own lands who refuse to follow the law. Why should the Qunari?

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Also, you've either been off the forums for a while or you've been hiding. Either way, welcome back to the DA boards!

I have been abroad for a few months, and havnt had internet. But thanks for the warm welcome. 

[Augustei]

BouncyFrag wrote...

If Anders shows up, then absolutely.

I'd rather drop him into a pot of boiling water, and tie him to two horses have them run opposite directions so he can be pulled apart. I've thought about this alot if you can't tell

LobselVith8 wrote...
Blood magic is a necessity. Fueling
powerful spells with living templars could allow the rebels to
accomplish grandiose spells. Mind control is also an effective way to
make a templar surrender. I'm sure the lyrium withdrawal would be a
factor for their mental health, depending on their access to it, but
blood magic should work regardless.

It's also a very effective way to loose public support, Ferelden for starters. Making the rebel's chances of loosing the war much higher. I approve =D

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 28 septembre 2012 - 07:13 .

[Aleya]

ReggarBlane wrote...

And the guilt when finding out that the mage was innocent of whatever "crime"? Yes.

Seriously. This is a great plot device to use just for that alone. All known signs point to the mage, but the player missed some clues and performed the rite on an innocent person.

Oh Maker yes, this. It would be a really interesting chance to mess with your PC's head, and I can already imagine about 10 different possible reactions to figuring this out. As a roleplayer I actually like finding out I did the wrong thing after the fact. Preferably long after the fact so reload fixes are impossible. This is one of those moral conondrums that would allow an initially pro-Templar PC to switch sides.

Love this idea!