68 réponses à ce sujet

[Leomerya12]

I can't tell you how annoying it is not to be able to retreat, fully, from time to time. Why should I die because I forgot to pack enough poultices? Or, because I misjudged how many freaking waves there would be? (I've played through DA2, 3 times, and I still don't always get the number of waves correct). I mean, I suppose I could turn down the difficulty, but that so demoralizing. There have been times I'd be sooooo far away from enemies, who won't leave their posts, and I still wouldn't be allowed to leave. So, could retreat be made more accessible?

Modifié par Leomerya12, 29 septembre 2012 - 04:43 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Hmm. Trying to think of games in which BioWare's implemented something like retreating from combat, and nothing really comes to mind. Typically the zones are small enough where enemies will chase you from area to area until they corner you. Or you have to hit certain checkpoints (Mass Effect comes to mind) by killing all the enemies.

I think you could run off the edge of the zone map in Baldur's Gate to get away from bad guys, but I might be mistaken. And at any rate, that's not a good implementation for a more modern game like DA3, especially if it's more open-world.

Maybe a leashing system, like MMORPGs implement? I think Skyrim also had something sort of like leashing.

[MichaelStuart]

I agree there should be a option to retreat.
Also you should be able to make the enemy retreat.

[Leomerya12]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Hmm. Trying to think of games in which BioWare's implemented something like retreating from combat, and nothing really comes to mind. Typically the zones are small enough where enemies will chase you from area to area until they corner you. Or you have to hit certain checkpoints (Mass Effect comes to mind) by killing all the enemies.

I think you could run off the edge of the zone map in Baldur's Gate to get away from bad guys, but I might be mistaken. And at any rate, that's not a good implementation for a more modern game like DA3, especially if it's more open-world.

Maybe a leashing system, like MMORPGs implement? I think Skyrim also had something sort of like leashing.

What do you mean by "leashing"?
And there were plenty of places, even in DA2, where I thought I could retreat, but perhaps you're right, and that there are developmental reasons as to why this can not occur.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Leomerya12 wrote...
What do you mean by "leashing"?
And there were plenty of places, even in DA2, where I thought I could retreat, but perhaps you're right, and that there are developmental reasons as to why this can not occur.

"Leashing" is pretty common in MMORPGs where monsters continually respawn.  Basically, if you run far enough away from a bad guy, it eventually stops chasing/attacking you and returns to its original location where you encountered it.

Skyrim did this with roaming monsters; it's pretty annoying having to get off your horse and fight every goddamn bear between you and your destination.  

As for DA2, the game seems to sort of "lock" into a combat stance as long as there are bad guys around.  In the combat stance, you can only fight.  You can't engage in normal environmental interactions like opening doors, talking to people, etc., cutting off retreat.  Though that's just my best guess.

[Leomerya12]

Ah, thanks! Also, the ability to make enemies retreat would be nice, too!

[Auintus]

They said it would be more tactical, requiring using your team as a collective unit. I consider retreat to be a tactical option. Then again, so did Loghain.

[Chipaway111]

Leashing in Skyrim worked perfectly for me, only because it meant I (being the daring and brave hero that I am) could just take pot-shots from some invisible barrier the significantly higher level demon thing couldn't pass.

And retreating always seems like a viable strategy in games to me, why would any person with a functioning brain decide to stick with a fight once they realize things have gone down hill? Maybe it's just me, however I don't think BioWare have ever offered a retreat option, it doesn't seem to fit with their combat... if that makes any sense at all.

[Zack_Nero]

Not really a fan of retreating the battlefield. To me it's you got to plan ahead, and if I were to die a few times then I switch tactics or actually start using them. When I first played DA it was killing the first thing you see, never really thought about kill the mage first. Not till the seventh death from a simple group fight. DA is really about on the go strategy combats. Use all the elements you have, not the simple ones.

[EricHVela]

It is easier to script story-based encounters that the player cannot avoid once the fighting begins. Being able to run from a battle where you need to defeat something can easily break such a game, especially when encounters have triggers for something specific.

In Skyrim, it keeps track of nearly everything that it can. That's quite a feat even for an existing quest system design (which they had already that they could implement into their new engine).

BWE does not have such a system to re-use. They'd have to create it from scratch. Given their mention of being able to re-use DA2 resources in their version of the Frostbite 2, I doubt they're thinking of creating a new quest system to allow fleeing and returning.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 28 septembre 2012 - 02:53 .

[RedWulfi]

Dying is part of learning.
I save my game very regularly when I expect that there will be a cutscene followed by combat. Or an ambush. And if not I learn to deal with it. Not the end of the world.

[Robhuzz]

Leomerya12 wrote...

Ah, thanks! Also, the ability to make enemies retreat would be nice, too!

Enemies pulling a tactical retreat if you take out a strategic target (commander or mage or something) and then teaming up with another group would be rather awesome I think. Maybe on higher difficulties, melee enemies actively holding the front while ranged enemies move to different vantage points.

Hopefully they'll improve the combat from DA2. No more hack and slash and definitely no more mobs spawning out of nowhere. That was seriously lame imo....

[Leomerya12]

Robhuzz wrote...

Leomerya12 wrote...

Ah, thanks! Also, the ability to make enemies retreat would be nice, too!

Enemies pulling a tactical retreat if you take out a strategic target (commander or mage or something) and then teaming up with another group would be rather awesome I think. Maybe on higher difficulties, melee enemies actively holding the front while ranged enemies move to different vantage points.

Hopefully they'll improve the combat from DA2. No more hack and slash and definitely no more mobs spawning out of nowhere. That was seriously lame imo....

Jesus, yes. To all of this.

[Icinix]

Leomerya12 wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Leomerya12 wrote...

Ah, thanks! Also, the ability to make enemies retreat would be nice, too!

Enemies pulling a tactical retreat if you take out a strategic target (commander or mage or something) and then teaming up with another group would be rather awesome I think. Maybe on higher difficulties, melee enemies actively holding the front while ranged enemies move to different vantage points.

Hopefully they'll improve the combat from DA2. No more hack and slash and definitely no more mobs spawning out of nowhere. That was seriously lame imo....

Jesus, yes. To all of this.

Indeed. This would be beautiful.

Much better than - enter area, asplode everything or die, leave area.

[grregg]

Robhuzz wrote...

(...)

Enemies pulling a tactical retreat if you take out a strategic target (commander or mage or something) and then teaming up with another group would be rather awesome I think. Maybe on higher difficulties, melee enemies actively holding the front while ranged enemies move to different vantage points.

Hopefully they'll improve the combat from DA2. No more hack and slash and definitely no more mobs spawning out of nowhere. That was seriously lame imo....

Sounds nice, but I seriously doubt that DA3 will have any of these. After all BioWare spent a decade removing tactical elements from their combat. Why would they suddenly start adding them back?

I think they'll go to twitch-based combat, it's a logical conclusion to the direction they were going in so far.

[Icinix]

grregg wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

(...)

Enemies pulling a tactical retreat if you take out a strategic target (commander or mage or something) and then teaming up with another group would be rather awesome I think. Maybe on higher difficulties, melee enemies actively holding the front while ranged enemies move to different vantage points.

Hopefully they'll improve the combat from DA2. No more hack and slash and definitely no more mobs spawning out of nowhere. That was seriously lame imo....

Sounds nice, but I seriously doubt that DA3 will have any of these. After all BioWare spent a decade removing tactical elements from their combat. Why would they suddenly start adding them back?

I think they'll go to twitch-based combat, it's a logical conclusion to the direction they were going in so far.

Maybe. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep asking for it.

[daffl5]

with open world you probably will be able to!

[Realmzmaster]

If the party is able to retreat then the enemy should also be able to pursue. The party is only able to retreat if the party members are able to disengage from the enemy. The speed of the party member is greater than the enemy or there is enough distance between the party and the enemy to make retreat an option. Also will it be a controlled retreat or a run for your life retreat. If it is a run for your life retreat the enemy gets free shots at the retreating party. A controlled retreat allows for more defense.

[Emzamination]

Coward's tactic -- no thank you.

Modifié par Emzamination, 28 septembre 2012 - 11:21 .

[Mr Fixit]

Emzamination wrote...

Coward's tactic -- no thank you.

Well, in that case, *you* wouldn't retreat, right? Someone else, however, may.

[Mr.House]

Emzamination wrote...

Coward's tactic -- no thank you.

SO if you retreat and decide to plan your next attack diffrently, that makes you a coward?

Modifié par Mr.House, 28 septembre 2012 - 11:27 .

[Emzamination]

Mr.House wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Coward's tactic -- no thank you.

SO if you retreat and decide to plan your next attack diffrently, that makes you a coward?

Yes, one should have their battle strategy and supplys planned before venturing out.Running away is cowardly and dishonorable.

Modifié par Emzamination, 28 septembre 2012 - 11:31 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Emzamination wrote...
Yes, one should have their battle strategy and supplys planned before venturing out.Running away is cowardly and dishonorable.

Honor before reason, I see 

[MichaelStuart]

Emzamination wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Coward's tactic -- no thank you.

SO if you retreat and decide to plan your next attack diffrently, that makes you a coward?

Yes, one should have their battle strategy and supplys planned before venturing out. Running away is cowardly and dishonorable.

The only dishonor is defeat. The only coward is the person who is unwilling to do what has to be done to win. 

[bleetman]

Haha.

Honour.