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[eternalnightmare13]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Mafia_Steve wrote...

Its sales are probably higher than LotSB, because PS3 owners already had it (came with it on disc), so Leviathan had the PS3 sales that LotSB didn't. Just speculation

I'm not exactly what you're talking about; are you saying Leviathan came together with the PS3 version of ME3? Well, that's obviously not the case.

Then again I'm a bit exhausted right now so excuse me if I'm not understanding you.

No, he's saying that LOTSB  came with the PS3 verision of ME2, hence less players bought a copy of that particular dlc in comparision to the number that bought Levithan.

[Cainne Chapel]

Mastone wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Mastone wrote...

Come on now you are just messing with me...sure ME1 is a bit more dated then ME2 and 3 but if you put ME3 gameplay and graphics on ME1 it would have been a way better game than ME2 and ME3 put together..the storytelling was way better, better characters.
The ending of ME1 was really a nice ending where your choices mattered, in ME2 those choices were marginalised by conveniently placing you in another system after ME2 it doesn't matter if you saved the collector ship or destroyed it ME3 would have developed on the same lines as it did regardless.

I don't mind that they polished the action, but they have diminished the RPG  in action from ME2 onwards in the end making ME3 a dumbed down GOW clone which is ( imo ) very sad

On that first part we can agree, I would love to ahve ME1 with  ME3 upgrade, but at the same time I like ME1 the way it is, dated and all.

The characters I disagree, in ME1 they were glorified Info dumps for the most part, granted I still liked them, but they were just info drones 80% of the time.  I actually loved character progression as the series went on and like a LOT of the characters they introduced after ME1.  hell I even like Vega and Traynor.

As for ME1 you also really cant say choices mattered as you never really got to see the brunt of your decisions until later on really outside of maybe a conversation or two with the squad and or the councilors.  Really any choice you make ended up mostly the same in ME2 and 3 in a lot of ways, except with 3 you get to see a lot come to fruition and tie off in ways.  Though some did fall by the way side as it was in ME2 witht he emails and what not.

But yes what you touch on is a problem with the system since ME1 really in that your choices really only "flavor" the games and dont effect them on a more tangible level.  This was quite evident since ME2, sure a lot in ME3 relies heavily on 1 and 2, but it would be nice in the future to have a system that can actually slightly CHANGE a storyline thanks to an earlier choice whether for good or bad.  I hope BW does something like that as they refine they're transfer mechanic as it is quite different from most other things out there.

Now I think I am coming through to you yet ..so please hang on now.

So you agree about the fact that ME1 would be way betterthan ME2+ME3 put together if they would update the graphics and gameplay...so at it's core it's better.
Now how come that this weakened over the course of 2 installments did good writers stopped being good writers or was the focus on something else than story development?....

Now dont get me wrong I love ME1, but i also wont sit here and say it would be better all the way around.  It would be great sure, but taken as a whole I would miss a lot of what got characterized in 2 and 3.  and while the story was good i also believe a lot of people look at it through rose colored glasses.  It was GOOD not PERFECT.  So I would still love 2 and 3 regardless.

Now with regards to the characters I agree that ME2 had a nice colorfull bunch and I wished that Jack, Mordin, Thane and perhaps even Javik were part of the ME1 crew just for the sake of diversity.
But that being said I feel that characters in ME1 were more like personalities with traiths of their own than ME2 and 3 ( in 2 you had to fill a loyality meter concluded by a mmission which inadvertenl was about daddy issues in 3 they would follow you into any ****hole) you really had to convince Wrex to stick with it on Virmire, they talked to each other in elevators or during walks and there were less characters allowing more development .

There WAS good characterization, I just feel it got better as the series progressed and especially liked the fact that in ME3 they would visit and chat with each other in an environment OTHER than elevators, made them feel more lifelike.  Besdies it'd be impossible to get 3 games worth of cahracter growth in one game so I would always need 2 and 3 to complete everything

The last point you mention is a critical one..the transfer issue this actually not merely a transfer of attribute sissue I think this even limits the engines capabilities combined with the fact that at its core Bioware rpg's haven't changed drastically from the kotor days except for some polishing  on the toplevel and I actually believe that they stuck for to long with this system and that maybe even the programmers weren't good enough to incorporate something with more then 3 variables .
again instead of focussing on core gameplay elements like they used to do ...they instead went for the polishing hoping people would fall for it ... and they did , me included.

I agree that i believe a lot of the issues are with the engine itself, which is why i hope going forward they have a bit more wiggle room with whatever new engine they go with when it comes to transferring game to game.  Done right it'd be a hell of a thing to see

As an aside I also want to mention I enjoyed the story in 2 and 3 as well to varying degrees.  But then I also go into most of my games (and RPGs) with very little expectations so that way I always ahve a good time.  

I'm usually easy to please....usually.  My tastes are quite....eccentric

Modifié par Cainne Chapel, 30 septembre 2012 - 12:27 .

[Reth Shepherd]

This morning I sent the following message to Chris Priestly.

In a thread, you said that Levi sold better than any other DLC of Bioware's to date. Just to clarify, it sold better than From Ashes? And when it comes to From Ashes' sales, are you counting or not counting the ones that were bundled with the Collector's and the like?

Sometime today (I was at work so don't know when exactly) he sent the following.

No, I am not including the numbers of From Ashes that were bundled in CEs as there it is not 100% sure that was the sole reason to purchase the CE.

[B.Shep]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

This morning I sent the following message to Chris Priestly.

In a thread, you said that Levi sold better than any other DLC of Bioware's to date. Just to clarify, it sold better than From Ashes? And when it comes to From Ashes' sales, are you counting or not counting the ones that were bundled with the Collector's and the like?

Sometime today (I was at work so don't know when exactly) he sent the following.

No, I am not including the numbers of From Ashes that were bundled in CEs as there it is not 100% sure that was the sole reason to purchase the CE.

Interesting answer. Thanks for posting this Reth Shepherd.
Considering the CEs pretty much sold out months before the game being released the comparison would be very unfair.

[clarkusdarkus]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Seafood is always popular.

*chuckle*

It has been our largest selling DLC to date, but I'm not going into specific numbers.

seriously?

hmmmmm, this little tid bit is making me think, and its not good when TST starts a thinkin!

bioware isnt gonig to make another mass effect game that im going to like. if leviathon is their biggest seller, of their most complained about game, then how am i to expect something different??? theyll make some games that other people will like, but not one i will like. im not a fan of bioware, im a fan of ME1, and that sucks for me.

This..

[AlanC9]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

no, it was with the release of ME2.

it just adds more to my realization.

im a fan of ME1, and thats where it starts and stops for me.

And there you have it.

It was pretty obvious post-release that Bio considered ME2 not only a success, but an improvement over ME1. Well, someone was going to have to lose there, and I'm afraid it was you. And Terrror_K, and a few other regulars.

[Tim Skijwalker]

YES!

leviathan was awesome, I can't wait for the next DLC!
I hope we get to see a lot more single player DLC.

Thanks for posting that update ;D

[clarkusdarkus]

AlanC9 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

no, it was with the release of ME2.

it just adds more to my realization.

im a fan of ME1, and thats where it starts and stops for me.

And there you have it.

It was pretty obvious post-release that Bio considered ME2 not only a success, but an improvement over ME1. Well, someone was going to have to lose there, and I'm afraid it was you. And Terrror_K, and a few other regulars.

Yeah, because losing your core fans is a smart buisness move...

[Dendio1]

KevShep wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

I saw it on youtube and that saved me $10 on story, everything else (like combat ) I can do in SP so there is no need to buy the DLC.

And this is different from any other DLC....how? Or do you just give all DLC one star?

its different because I cared about the story and immersion before ME3. I just cant get behind a kill all reapers button (very lazy by Bioware) and a catalyst with flawed logic that is contradicting itself in more ways then one yet it has the power to see its flawed but yet it cant.

You say you cared. Then you let the forums/ nitpickers get to you and you choose to not buy the dlc.
Then you come back and let us know about your plight

coolstorybro, if you didn't care you wouldn't be on these boards

Modifié par Dendio1, 30 septembre 2012 - 04:15 .

[AlanC9]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
And there you have it.

It was pretty obvious post-release that Bio considered ME2 not only a success, but an improvement over ME1. Well, someone was going to have to lose there, and I'm afraid it was you. And Terrror_K, and a few other regulars.

Yeah, because losing your core fans is a smart buisness move...

Except they didn't. Their core fans are people like.... well, me.

Edit: what I mean by that is that ME1, while pretty good in itself, had some unfortunate design choices that gave people the wrong impression about what Bio does and what future games would be like. Someone who's an ME1 fan in particular was very likely to  end up disappointed by the studio.

Modifié par AlanC9, 30 septembre 2012 - 04:27 .

[Isichar]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Seafood is always popular.

*chuckle*

It has been our largest selling DLC to date, but I'm not going into specific numbers.

seriously?

hmmmmm, this little tid bit is making me think, and its not good when TST starts a thinkin!

bioware isnt gonig to make another mass effect game that im going to like. if leviathon is their biggest seller, of their most complained about game, then how am i to expect something different??? theyll make some games that other people will like, but not one i will like. im not a fan of bioware, im a fan of ME1, and that sucks for me.

This..

Yep. Its pretty sad Isnt it?

[Stalker]

Isichar wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Seafood is always popular.

*chuckle*

It has been our largest selling DLC to date, but I'm not going into specific numbers.

seriously?

hmmmmm, this little tid bit is making me think, and its not good when TST starts a thinkin!

bioware isnt gonig to make another mass effect game that im going to like. if leviathon is their biggest seller, of their most complained about game, then how am i to expect something different??? theyll make some games that other people will like, but not one i will like. im not a fan of bioware, im a fan of ME1, and that sucks for me.

This..

Yep. Its pretty sad Isnt it?

Sad, but not really surprising.

They were already most succesful with ME3 and that was also not aimed at the core fanbase, but at the more profitable mass. It's clear they will continue to appeal to those people and further ignore actual fans.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 30 septembre 2012 - 04:38 .

[Isichar]

AlanC9 wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
And there you have it.

It was pretty obvious post-release that Bio considered ME2 not only a success, but an improvement over ME1. Well, someone was going to have to lose there, and I'm afraid it was you. And Terrror_K, and a few other regulars.

Yeah, because losing your core fans is a smart buisness move...

Except they didn't. Their core fans are people like.... well, me.

Edit: what I mean by that is that ME1, while pretty good in itself, had some unfortunate design choices that gave people the wrong impression about what Bio does and what future games would be like. Someone who's an ME1 fan in particular was very likely to  end up disappointed by the studio.

Well I have been a bioware fan since the original baldurs gate was released, pre-ordered every single game(including the original ME) before I even knew anything about it and I have certainly lost a lot of respect and faith in the company. I would still like to consider myself a Bioware fan but its definitely not them same.

As someone who sees himself as a core fan I can say I am willing to look passed this if they can still make good games, but the problem is I doubt whether the Bioware I have been a fan of over the last decade is the same Bioware that is here today.

[The Spamming Troll]

AlanC9 wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
And there you have it.

It was pretty obvious post-release that Bio considered ME2 not only a success, but an improvement over ME1. Well, someone was going to have to lose there, and I'm afraid it was you. And Terrror_K, and a few other regulars.

Yeah, because losing your core fans is a smart buisness move...

Except they didn't. Their core fans are people like.... well, me.

Edit: what I mean by that is that ME1, while pretty good in itself, had some unfortunate design choices that gave people the wrong impression about what Bio does and what future games would be like. Someone who's an ME1 fan in particular was very likely to  end up disappointed by the studio.

i think he wanted to say their "changing their target audience" not core fans. well i guess either way its bad.

but its somewhat a good feeling i have your sympathy, instead of just calling people "entitled whiners."

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 30 septembre 2012 - 04:50 .

[Obeded the 2nd]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

no, it was with the release of ME2.

it just adds more to my realization.

im a fan of ME1, and thats where it starts and stops for me.

And there you have it.

It was pretty obvious post-release that Bio considered ME2 not only a success, but an improvement over ME1. Well, someone was going to have to lose there, and I'm afraid it was you. And Terrror_K, and a few other regulars.

Yeah, because losing your core fans is a smart buisness move...

If this was thier largest selling DLC then I'm willing to say either "core" fans are talking **** and actually but ME stuff or a lot of people still buy ME stuff.

In essence, the "core" fan doesn't matter if it is the latter.

[B.Shep]

Not aimed at the core fanbase? Seriously? So what were all those moments with Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Mordin, Joker etc? And what about Conrad Verner and Jenna? Or Barla Von? Or Balak? And many more moments that do some kind of reminiscence from previous games?

Wanna hate the game, fine it's your choice but don't come up with silly excuses for that.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Isichar wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
And there you have it.

It was pretty obvious post-release that Bio considered ME2 not only a success, but an improvement over ME1. Well, someone was going to have to lose there, and I'm afraid it was you. And Terrror_K, and a few other regulars.

Yeah, because losing your core fans is a smart buisness move...

Except they didn't. Their core fans are people like.... well, me.

Edit: what I mean by that is that ME1, while pretty good in itself, had some unfortunate design choices that gave people the wrong impression about what Bio does and what future games would be like. Someone who's an ME1 fan in particular was very likely to  end up disappointed by the studio.

Well I have been a bioware fan since the original baldurs gate was released, pre-ordered every single game(including the original ME) before I even knew anything about it and I have certainly lost a lot of respect and faith in the company. I would still like to consider myself a Bioware fan but its definitely not them same.

As someone who sees himself as a core fan I can say I am willing to look passed this if they can still make good games, but the problem is I doubt whether the Bioware I have been a fan of over the last decade is the same Bioware that is here today.

If only people purchased games like old BioWare games.
Gaming would be A LOT better.

P.S I'm not saying gaming sucks now though.

[AlanC9]

Isichar wrote...
Well I have been a bioware fan since the original baldurs gate was released, pre-ordered every single game(including the original ME) before I even knew anything about it and I have certainly lost a lot of respect and faith in the company. I would still like to consider myself a Bioware fan but its definitely not them same.

As someone who sees himself as a core fan I can say I am willing to look passed this if they can still make good games, but the problem is I doubt whether the Bioware I have been a fan of over the last decade is the same Bioware that is here today.

Oh, absolutely. Some of us BG fans are OK with Bio's current style, some aren't.

But some things about ME1 were atypical for Bio. Exploration, for instance. And the trilogy structure led people to expect that Bio would be implementing consequences in a way that they never have attempted.

I guess it depends on what you think makes something a "Bio" game in the first place.

[Isichar]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

If only people purchased games like old BioWare games.
Gaming would be A LOT better.

P.S I'm not saying gaming sucks now though.

Thats why I support games on GoG and projects like Baldurs Gate: Enhanced edition. Games like BG, Jade Empire, KotOR and other classics are what got me into gaming and made me love games as more then just a way to pass the time.

But then again I admittedly have very different tastes in games then many current day gamers. I would play BG over just about any recent triple A title anyday of the week. Most people I suspect would be unable to look passed the dated graphics and engine though.

[The Spamming Troll]

B.Shep wrote...

Not aimed at the core fanbase? Seriously? So what were all those moments with Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Mordin, Joker etc? And what about Conrad Verner and Jenna? Or Barla Von? Or Balak? And many more moments that do some kind of reminiscence from previous games?

Wanna hate the game, fine it's your choice but don't come up with silly excuses for that.

some things were good, some things were bad. you mentioned the good, i can also mention the bad.

but its not about being a hardcore fan, its just about the franchises change of direction. and thats all really.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Isichar wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

If only people purchased games like old BioWare games.
Gaming would be A LOT better.

P.S I'm not saying gaming sucks now though.

Thats why I support games on GoG and projects like Baldurs Gate: Enhanced edition. Games like BG, Jade Empire, KotOR and other classics are what got me into gaming and made me love games as more then just a way to pass the time.

But then again I admittedly have very different tastes in games then many current day gamers. I would play BG over just about any recent triple A title anyday of the week. Most people I suspect would be unable to look passed the dated graphics and engine though.

It's such a shame that graphics ar so important to some people, I just picked up MP1 and started playing it, amazing game even today IMO.

At least you're not a hypocrite because I am a little.

[Isichar]

AlanC9 wrote...

Isichar wrote...
Well I have been a bioware fan since the original baldurs gate was released, pre-ordered every single game(including the original ME) before I even knew anything about it and I have certainly lost a lot of respect and faith in the company. I would still like to consider myself a Bioware fan but its definitely not them same.

As someone who sees himself as a core fan I can say I am willing to look passed this if they can still make good games, but the problem is I doubt whether the Bioware I have been a fan of over the last decade is the same Bioware that is here today.

Oh, absolutely. Some of us BG fans are OK with Bio's current style, some aren't.

But some things about ME1 were atypical for Bio. Exploration, for instance. And the trilogy structure led people to expect that Bio would be implementing consequences in a way that they never have attempted.

I guess it depends on what you think makes something a "Bio" game in the first place.

Expectations can certainly effect your view on the game itself. Admittedly if the game had been the exact same, but done by a different company, I would have reacted differently.

Bioware kind of has a strange habit of changing things up between games which is both good and bad. In general I like it, keeps things fresh, though I did not like the direction ME3 took it, but some people do and I get that.

I did kind of think the ending would have implement similar ways of approaching choices and consequences as ME2's SM so I would argue that there are ways of handling that, which some people expected that has been done before.

[Obeded the 2nd]

timskywalker wrote...

YES!

leviathan was awesome, I can't wait for the next DLC!
I hope we get to see a lot more single player DLC.

Thanks for posting that update ;D

So I don't get a thanks for making him post the update?

[Isichar]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

If only people purchased games like old BioWare games.
Gaming would be A LOT better.

P.S I'm not saying gaming sucks now though.

Thats why I support games on GoG and projects like Baldurs Gate: Enhanced edition. Games like BG, Jade Empire, KotOR and other classics are what got me into gaming and made me love games as more then just a way to pass the time.

But then again I admittedly have very different tastes in games then many current day gamers. I would play BG over just about any recent triple A title anyday of the week. Most people I suspect would be unable to look passed the dated graphics and engine though.

It's such a shame that graphics ar so important to some people, I just picked up MP1 and started playing it, amazing game even today IMO.

At least you're not a hypocrite because I am a little.

Beautiful aesthetics will do more for a game then just straight up powerhouse visuals to me. I would argue there are games that came out a decade ago that are actually more pleasing to watch then some of the current day powerhouses.

Modifié par Isichar, 30 septembre 2012 - 05:45 .

[Obeded the 2nd]

Isichar wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

If only people purchased games like old BioWare games.
Gaming would be A LOT better.

P.S I'm not saying gaming sucks now though.

Thats why I support games on GoG and projects like Baldurs Gate: Enhanced edition. Games like BG, Jade Empire, KotOR and other classics are what got me into gaming and made me love games as more then just a way to pass the time.

But then again I admittedly have very different tastes in games then many current day gamers. I would play BG over just about any recent triple A title anyday of the week. Most people I suspect would be unable to look passed the dated graphics and engine though.

It's such a shame that graphics ar so important to some people, I just picked up MP1 and started playing it, amazing game even today IMO.

At least you're not a hypocrite because I am a little.

Beautiful aesthetics will do more for a game then just straight up powerhouse visuals for me. I would argue there are games that came out a decade ago that are actually more pleasing to watch then some of the current day powerhouses.

I would say graphics are secondary to almost everything, for instance Crysis 2 looked amazing but after an hour or so I didn't care one bit.
I could probs play any game with graphics that are terrible compared to tday with little problem, assuming the're fun of course.