411 réponses à ce sujet

[drayfish]

CronoDragoon wrote...

drayfish wrote...


Genuinely: those who don't think 'Leviathan' sold well do not have any evidence because Bioware will never release the details; people who think it sold wonderfully have absolutely no evidence either.  It is all - all of it - speculation and hearsay - and this goes particularly so for Priestly's comments. 
 

Too bad for your argument that Chris's comments are evidence, unless you believe he is speculating or utilizing hearsay.

I already explained - a couple of times in fact - Priestly's comments are in no way evidence.  You can choose to believe him, but his assertions are completely unverified, and he is hardly going to come on and say: yep, we're underperforming.  In the entire history of Bioware they have never done such a thing - except with DA2 as a way of excusing their abandoning of new content (and even then it was blamed on fan apathy).

[CronoDragoon]

drayfish wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

drayfish wrote...


Genuinely: those who don't think 'Leviathan' sold well do not have any evidence because Bioware will never release the details; people who think it sold wonderfully have absolutely no evidence either.  It is all - all of it - speculation and hearsay - and this goes particularly so for Priestly's comments. 
 

Too bad for your argument that Chris's comments are evidence, unless you believe he is speculating or utilizing hearsay.

I already explained - a couple of times in fact - Priestly's comments are in no way evidence.  You can choose to believe him, but his assertions are completely unverified, and he is hardly going to come on and say: yep, we're underperforming.  In the entire history of Bioware they have never done such a thing - except with DA2 as a way of excusing their abandoning of new content (and even then it was blamed on fan apathy).

You gave an explanation why he wouldn't come on this board and say it's underperforming which, I hope you see, is unrelated to an explanation for why he would come on this board and say it's doing well. 

And it's evidence in the way that any quote is evidence. It's evidence in the way Adam Schefter saying a trade is about to go down is evidence. It's a quote from a guy who would know.

[KevShep]

drayfish wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

drayfish wrote...


Genuinely: those who don't think 'Leviathan' sold well do not have any evidence because Bioware will never release the details; people who think it sold wonderfully have absolutely no evidence either.  It is all - all of it - speculation and hearsay - and this goes particularly so for Priestly's comments. 
 

Too bad for your argument that Chris's comments are evidence, unless you believe he is speculating or utilizing hearsay.

I already explained - a couple of times in fact - Priestly's comments are in no way evidence.  You can choose to believe him, but his assertions are completely unverified, and he is hardly going to come on and say: yep, we're underperforming.  In the entire history of Bioware they have never done such a thing - except with DA2 as a way of excusing their abandoning of new content (and even then it was blamed on fan apathy).

Bioware needs to take a few notes on Betheasda. Betheasda made Fallout 3 with an ending that just ended (meaning you cant even play after creadits). They addmited that they f***ed up to everyone and not only fixed it to were you can continue playing they also gave us a FULL DLC called "Broken Steel".

[CronoDragoon]

DirtyMouthSally wrote...


Your post is evidence that you made a statement on the forum, and that's about it. 

It's not Sherlock Holmes evidence, if that's what we're discussing. Chris's statement means we have more good reason to believe it sold well than it didn't. Whatever people want to call that reason, I don't care.

[CronoDragoon]

KevShep wrote...

Bioware needs to take a few notes on Betheasda. Betheasda made Fallout 3 with an ending that just ended (meaning you cant even play after creadits). They addmited that they f***ed up to everyone and not only fixed it to were you can continue playing they also gave us a FULL DLC called "Broken Steel".

You've got this backwards. The reason why they made it so you could continue playing was because of Broken Steel.

[drayfish]

CronoDragoon wrote...

You gave an explanation why he wouldn't come on this board and say it's underperforming which, I hope you see, is unrelated to an explanation for why he would come on this board and say it's doing well. 

And it's evidence in the way that any quote is evidence. It's evidence in the way Adam Schefter saying a trade is about to go down is evidence. It's a quote from a guy who would know.

It's a quote from a guy with a vested interest.  He is a part of the company whose productivity is being questioned, and who would no doubt be reprimanded for saying anything negative even if he wanted to.

The example you offer concerns an outside observer commenting on a field he is paid to critique.  It is in every possible way different.  If Adam Schefter were being asked how well he is doing his own job, whether people are satisfied with his work, and if he then referenced some vague evidence that he could not produce (for no reason) then the analogy might be valid.

Modifié par drayfish, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:38 .

[KevShep]

CronoDragoon wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Bioware needs to take a few notes on Betheasda. Betheasda made Fallout 3 with an ending that just ended (meaning you cant even play after creadits). They addmited that they f***ed up to everyone and not only fixed it to were you can continue playing they also gave us a FULL DLC called "Broken Steel".

You've got this backwards. The reason why they made it so you could continue playing was because of Broken Steel.

I ment that they were in the same package. People demanded that they fix it and they did.

Bioware needs to listen.

Modifié par KevShep, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:38 .

[KLGChaos]

I can proudly say I did not buy the DLC and have no plans to buy any future DLC. There's at least one person they lost. Even if they do something that gives brand new endings, I don't see myself buying them. As much as I loved the characters and setting, the ME universe is dead to me. Besides, there's plenty to keep my busy.. I'll be playing Borderlands 2 for months. A great example of a game company listening to it's fans.

Modifié par KLGChaos, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:44 .

[KevShep]

KLGChaos wrote...

I can proudly say I did not buy the DLC and have no plans to buy any future DLC. There's at least one person they lost. Even if they do something that gives brand new endings, I don't see myself buying them. As much as I loved the characters and setting, the ME universe is dead to me.

I second this^, less Deus Ex Machina and less catalsyt will change my mind.

[CronoDragoon]

drayfish wrote...
It's a quote from a guy with a vested interest.  He is a part of the company whose productivity is being questioned, and who would no doubt be reprimanded for saying anything negative even if he wanted to.

Which again, has little to do with him coming on a forum and commented that it sold well when he doesn't have to.

The example you offer concerns an outside observer commenting on a field he is paid to critique.  It is in every possible way different.  If Adam Schefter were being asked how well he is doing his own job, whether people are satisfied with his work, and if he then referenced some vague evidence that he could not produce (for no reason) then the analogy might be valid.

True, it would be like asking him to comment on ESPN (which he has done before).

A better example is a coach on the hot seat saying the players have confidence in him. That is evidence whether you like it or not. It isn't very strong evidence and may or may not be corroborated by the players, though, in which case counter evidence could prove to be stronger.

[drayfish]

CronoDragoon wrote...

drayfish wrote...
It's a quote from a guy with a vested interest.  He is a part of the company whose productivity is being questioned, and who would no doubt be reprimanded for saying anything negative even if he wanted to.

Which again, has little to do with him coming on a forum and commented that it sold well when he doesn't have to.

The example you offer concerns an outside observer commenting on a field he is paid to critique.  It is in every possible way different.  If Adam Schefter were being asked how well he is doing his own job, whether people are satisfied with his work, and if he then referenced some vague evidence that he could not produce (for no reason) then the analogy might be valid.

True, it would be like asking him to comment on ESPN (which he has done before).

A better example is a coach on the hot seat saying the players have confidence in him. That is evidence whether you like it or not. It isn't very strong evidence and may or may not be corroborated by the players, though, in which case counter evidence could prove to be stronger.

What?  I'm not sure if you are being intentionally contrarian...

This is not about opinion.  Priestly cites sales figures that he then will not verify.  This is not: 'I've been hearing good things, I'm pretty sure people think well of me...'  This is: 'I have verifiable hard data that proves my assertion ...but I'm not going to show you.'

And of course there is a reason to come on and say such a thing.  It only paints the company in a good light, and there is apparently no obligation to follow it up with proof.

I can state that I have the chiselled jawline of a Greek God; have broken the world speed record on foot (I taught Usain Bolt everything he knows); and I can play violin so splendidly that people who hear me break down and weep.  Sure, that makes me sound great, and truly ruly I can prove all of it; I'm just not going to.  ...And I didn't have to come on this forum and say it.

Honestly, I think you may have the notions of 'evidence' and 'hearsay' mixed up - or at least the definitions that I am employing.

[Calamity]

MegaSovereign wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

I bought Leviathan and I hated the endings. I was hoping for something that tied into the endings to make it more bearable, and that's not what I got. Of course, realising all of the events in Leviathan changed nothing and was largely rendered meaningless by the endings was something that hit me later.

I know I won't be buying future DLCs because the endings invalidate anything that comes before it.

Unless you got everyone killed at the end of the game, that's not true.

<on topic> I dont mind the ending (Destroy) and I thought that Levi was going to change something besides dialog in the end scenes. Such an allie should have warranted something...

<off topic> Mega S - You really need to switch back to TIM.... you as a volus is just too freaky...

[CronoDragoon]

drayfish wrote...

This is not about opinion.  Priestly cites sales figures that he then will not verify.  This is not: 'I've been hearing good things, I'm pretty sure people think well of me...'  This is: 'I have verifiable hard data that proves my assertion ...but I'm not going to show you.'

What is your point? Do they not both, according to you, have a vested interest in telling their own stories? By the way, my coach example was not "I think the players like me" but rather that he knows he has the support of the players, presumably because they told him. In such a case both claims are falsifiable.

And of course there is a reason to come on and say such a thing.  It only paints the company in a good light, and there is apparently no obligation to follow it up with proof.

So after months of relative silence and an unwillingness to talk, NOW is the time they take to come on the boards and post false reports about DLC sales. Right.

I can state that I have the chiselled jawline of a Greek God; have broken the world speed record on foot (I taught Usain Bolt everything he knows); and I can play violin so splendidly that people who hear me break down and weep.  Sure, that makes me sound great, and truly ruly I can prove all of it; I'm just not going to.  ...And I didn't have to come on this forum and say it.

I think that if you were posting under your real name with the company you work for and where you work attached, you'd be much less likely to say such things.

Honestly, I think you may have the notions of 'evidence' and 'hearsay' mixed up - or at least the definitions that I am employing.

Well, the definitions you employ do not fit the legal definitions, which is what I've been working with. What Chris is saying is not hearsay and, speaking strictly from hearsay vs. not hearsay admissability, would be admissible as evidence. Now, if I leave this board and say, "Chris Priestly said that Leviathan sold well" then THAT would be hearsay.

[CptBomBom00]

Well enough to afford Omega and other cool "stuff".

[devSin]

drayfish wrote...

In the entire history of Bioware they have never done such a thing - except with DA2 as a way of excusing their abandoning of new content (and even then it was blamed on fan apathy).

Do you have a source for this?

As far as I'm aware, no such thing has ever been said (not least because it's just not true, so there'd be no reason for them to say it). They've been incredibly forthright about why the decision was made to cancel work on future content for DA2, and it has nothing to do with "fan apathy" (and the DLC they did release was successful, so apparently the customers weren't all that apathetic, even if the game wasn't universally lauded).

The one time I can recall demand being an issue was for an "ultimate edition" re-release of DA2, and I believe Mark (the franchise producer) indicated that there was no retailer demand for such a thing (I don't believe customer demand was ever mentioned).

[CronoDragoon]

devSin wrote...
Do you have a source for this?

As far as I'm aware, no such thing has ever been said (not least because it's just not true, so there'd be no reason for them to say it). They've been incredibly forthright about why the decision was made to cancel work on future content for DA2, and it has nothing to do with "fan apathy" (and the DLC they did release was successful, so apparently the customers weren't all that apathetic, even if the game wasn't universally lauded).

The one time I can recall demand being an issue was for an "ultimate edition" re-release of DA2, and I believe Mark (the franchise producer) indicated that there was no retailer demand for such a thing (I don't believe customer demand was ever mentioned).

Why did they stop making DLC? I've never bothered to look it up.

[devSin]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Why did they stop making DLC? I've never bothered to look it up.

Because they got more time to work on DA3, and they're switching to a new engine.

They had the choice to split work (with part of the team working full time on the expansion and any remaining DLC, and the rest working on DA3) to finish up the remaining DA2 content (we know about the expansion, and there are two unoccupied mats in the Hawke manor, so there was likely going to be at least one more DLC) or to have the whole team focus on the next game. Probably they still would have needed to release DA3 at the same time regardless (that's just speculation on my part, but they didn't seem to get any extra time for DA2 from Awakening), and they probably have a multiplayer mandate—and they also know they can't "rush" things so much this time.

Mark indicated that certain opportunities arose (likely related to the engine, but there are possibly more revelations to come) that were too good to pass up, so the decision was made to put everybody to work on DA3 (it wasn't an easy decision, but they felt it was the right one for the franchise going forward).

[drayfish]

CronoDragoon wrote...

drayfish wrote...

This is not about opinion.  Priestly cites sales figures that he then will not verify.  This is not: 'I've been hearing good things, I'm pretty sure people think well of me...'  This is: 'I have verifiable hard data that proves my assertion ...but I'm not going to show you.'

What is your point? Do they not both, according to you, have a vested interest in telling their own stories? By the way, my coach example was not "I think the players like me" but rather that he knows he has the support of the players, presumably because they told him. In such a case both claims are falsifiable.

And of course there is a reason to come on and say such a thing.  It only paints the company in a good light, and there is apparently no obligation to follow it up with proof.

So after months of relative silence and an unwillingness to talk, NOW is the time they take to come on the boards and post false reports about DLC sales. Right.

I can state that I have the chiselled jawline of a Greek God; have broken the world speed record on foot (I taught Usain Bolt everything he knows); and I can play violin so splendidly that people who hear me break down and weep.  Sure, that makes me sound great, and truly ruly I can prove all of it; I'm just not going to.  ...And I didn't have to come on this forum and say it.

I think that if you were posting under your real name with the company you work for and where you work attached, you'd be much less likely to say such things.

Honestly, I think you may have the notions of 'evidence' and 'hearsay' mixed up - or at least the definitions that I am employing.

Well, the definitions you employ do not fit the legal definitions, which is what I've been working with. What Chris is saying is not hearsay and, speaking strictly from hearsay vs. not hearsay admissability, would be admissible as evidence. Now, if I leave this board and say, "Chris Priestly said that Leviathan sold well" then THAT would be hearsay.

You keep citing 'evidence'.  There is no evidence - by any definition.  You have Priestly's word, that is all (and Bioware have already proved themselves to be rather loose with the truth in the past: no ABC endings, no changes in EC, etc.)

It is not legal evidence to turn up to a court of law, say 'I saw the crime, he's guilty', and then refuse to explain how. Similarly, a medical examiner has to present their findings to the jury, to explain the science that they have employed to reach their opinion. 

If you genuinely cannot see the difference between a member of a company whose success is built upon public image referencing some sales figures that they never have to verify, and actual fact, then I'm afraid nothing I say will convince you.

(Also, I literally have no idea what point you are making with the reference to writing on a forum...  Priestly is saying something complimentary and supportive of the company on the forum that represents that company...  I don't understand how your comment disproves why it is not in his interests to be glowingly optimistic.)

Besides, I started my comments in this thread by saying that if you want to believe Priestly, you can. That's your right and your opinion to have.  But it is not evidence. It is not proof.  Until facts and figures are cited it is merely the assurances of a person who has a vested interest, and who no doubt wants to silence complainers belittling the sales on a thread such as this.

Modifié par drayfish, 29 septembre 2012 - 08:10 .

[Morty Smith]

If you sold two oranges last year, tree oranges will be your best selling oranges.

[shepskisaac]

Kroitz wrote...

If you sold two oranges last year, tree oranges will be your best selling oranges.

Except that DLC for ME2 was really succesful. Check here: marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Games/GameAddons Both ME3 and ME2 rank very high on Xbox Live all-time best selling DLC list. Only monster shooter hits like COD, GOW, Halo, Battlefield or casual Rock Band are ahead of ME games in terms of DLC sales

[K. S. Black]

Huh, largest selling DLC to date and I choose not to buy it.

[Beelzebubs]

dreamgazer wrote...

Not an exact science in the slightest, but you might be able to get a ballpark idea based on the number of user ratings on XBOX Marketplace:

Shadow Broker: ~5,900
Cerberus Network: ~6,000
Project Overlord: ~5,000
Stolen Memory: ~6,500
Arrival: ~2,000
EDIT: From Ashes: 11,200
Leviathan: ~8,000


Keep in mind that you can vote for DLC without purchasing it, but that goes for the other pieces of DLC, too.

From Ashes will have been rating bombed with 1 stars due to being on disc DLC.

[Morty Smith]

IsaacShep wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

If you sold two oranges last year, tree oranges will be your best selling oranges.

Except that DLC for ME2 was really succesful. Check here: marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Games/GameAddons Both ME3 and ME2 rank very high on Xbox Live all-time best selling DLC list. Only monster shooter hits like COD, GOW, Halo, Battlefield or casual Rock Band are ahead of ME games in terms of DLC sales

If three equates more than two, I don´t know what exception is there to be made.

Or are you implying something?

Modifié par Kroitz, 29 septembre 2012 - 08:33 .

[K. S. Black]

dreamgazer wrote...

Not an exact science in the slightest, but you might be able to get a ballpark idea based on the number of user ratings on XBOX Marketplace:

Shadow Broker: ~5,900
Cerberus Network: ~6,000
Project Overlord: ~5,000
Stolen Memory: ~6,500
Arrival: ~2,000
EDIT: From Ashes: 11,200
Leviathan: ~8,000


Keep in mind that you can vote for DLC without purchasing it, but that goes for the other pieces of DLC, too.

I will admit, I am one of those people that voted but did not purchase.

Modifié par K. S. Black, 29 septembre 2012 - 08:38 .