301 réponses à ce sujet

[Alesia_BH]

They should probably take it down. That said, there really isn't a lot of targetted stuff that mages can use effectively against Abigail.


EDIT: In response to your question, they don't cast into it: they refrain from casting.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:14 .

[touch_of_the_void]

Save-or-else spells I guess not but presumably being Breached and losing most elemental protections and defensive cleric buffs would be a pain in some fights. Although I haven't played enough SCS to know whether the mages would think to hit clerics with Breach. Being designed to face full parties it probably isn't a priority.

Modifié par touch_of_the_void, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:21 .

[Alesia_BH]

They cast Breach, but here are Abigail's resistances with her standard mage fighting gear equipped and no buffs other than a post breach Armor of Faith quick cast.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:14 .

[Gate70]

Well done. I can't see you catching me up on the reloads despite what you say.

ussnorway wrote...
The "Book of Infinite Spells", from Brynnlaw (pirate island) has the Divine spell 'True Seeing'.

Peek-a-Babau (knew where it was as I 'd detour around something). No sign of the two succubi so assume their gate is a gate out.

Alesia_BH wrote...
Don't give up Gate- at least give the final battle a try! In my install (on Core), the second pool does not refresh abilities, but the third one does.

Oh, I'll be trying. Neither of the first two pools seemed to refresh despite a message saying Veyal: Rest, but that was probably the Babau interfering. The third pool refreshed so I'm now into the endgame.

For those who haven't seen Ascension before I believe Sendai is to the left of Yaga-Shura and Sarevok (possibly starts invisible before firing her buffs). I know Illasera is to the right of Abazigal and Balthezar as she showed in the cut-scene.


Yaga Shura hits me with a lava bomb, injuring Sarevok and Sendai too. I make the mistake on lap 2 of trying to punch Illasera with Balthezar too close, taking another hit as I'm down but off & running with 9hp left so glug a superior. I suspect this won't end well but might as well see how my knowledge of Oversight Monks helps against Balthezar now I've had the wake-up call.

& so it proves, I take two hits before I can return to the main ring. Time to experiment.

Modifié par Gate70, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:08 .

[Alesia_BH]

We'll see. I honestly have no idea how she's going to handle the Throne fights...

[Gate70]

I sympathise (see below!)

Bhaalspawn reincarnate
(also known as why can't there be an auto-save after all the talking is over to save 2-3 minutes per reload).

2. The Ravager.
The Ravager puts up a strong fight but Abazigal has stoneskins and Balthezar flits about so nobody dies. The Ravager is held (effective) & stunned (not effective) so takes significant damage. By the time Veyal wants to return the Ravager has lost control and takes too much damage to survive.

3. Monk Speed.
I teleport away from Sendai as she contingencies Blade Barrier (4 screens worth of messages so a bit buggy). I re-appear as Sarevok takes 4 screens worth of Blade Barrier damage for a total of 812. If only Balthezar or Illasera had been closer instead. I manage a couple of laps before running past Abazigal without stopping to check the 30+3+1 damage he has managed despite my speed. My magic resistance is down to 40% even with the amulet of Seldarine and Hindo's Doom equipped and I am malisoned too so glug a potion of Mind Focusing to see if any dispels are targeted. This simple glug allows them to converge and Balthezar tries a Hand of Murder (hey what's this, can't remember that). As I run Abazigal adds another hit and Yaga Shura finishes with a lava bomb.

4. More Monk Speed.
I try starting with Improved Invisibility, Hardiness and DUHM. All three refresh as I drain the essense pool for a fourth time. I teleport away from Sendai as Balthezar Lunar Stances. Illasera misses with a roll of 7 but on the next circuit my magic resistance is lowered by 60% and she hits with a dispelling 15. Balthezar is faster than me with his Oversight speed so I continue running while he wastes a few abilities. I'm taking the odd hit from Illasera and Abazigal plus lava bombs from Yaga Shura, missing the "wish time control" from Sendai - if I'd caught it I was well positioned to start on Balthezar and if he fell to continue on Illasera. I glug and run to a pool then try another teleport but my aura is dirty and a Shadowless Kick stuns me. Dead again.

5. More Monk Speed and try to catch the Timestop.
I'm doing OK (this is of course speaking in relative terms - to the above) except for one issue. Abazigal has a sword that can reach to the stars and back - four hits I didn't expect to take as I lap the ring. Make that 5, if he stands in the middle of the ring I reckon he can cover either side with only one or two steps. Improved Invisibility seems to be stopping Illasera from attacking too, but Sendai is refusing to Timestop. Is she reading my journal or my very thoughts. The invisibility soon wears off and life immediately gets harder as I am malisoned and blinded.

Aha - exploit time. I can hear my enemies close in but not see them so hide in the shadows. Sure, they could see me but I couldn't see them and so I could hide. I run around the ring some more, using Hindo's Doom as a high-speed walking stick in the hope that my sight will eventually return.

Illasera misses with a "Red Slayers" arrow,and then another by which time I can see again. Despite three enemies nearby and Balthezar sharing my shadow I hide again (hide in shadows is a bit buggy I guess). I eventually aim and land my first hit on an unsuspecting Illasera before running from Balthezar. Yaga Shura gets a double monk hit with a lava bomb and Balthezar Flips Resistances, unaware that I have no intention of fighting him.

Sendai twists her onyx ring again as Balthezar tries a Lunar Stance. I have just enough room to return into the shadows again so Illasera will have to think of options. I hear Sendai cast Improved Alacrity as I run so check - only 40% resistant to magic. She casts wish so I try a Focus but Balthezar has his foot in my mouth to disrupt my casting. Luckily (or not) Sendai has chosen to utterly destroy my magical defences. My dear lady, I'm not stupid enough to have any defences in place just yet.

I am stupid enough to have tried casting Focus near to a hidden Illasera and use Yaga Shura to block Balthezar while avoiding her "Red Slayers" arrow. I test my fist against Sendai - iron skinned, allowing Balthezar to prepare a Hand of Murder and Sarevok a GWW but I've continued running so they chasing while their HLA's expire. Or not. Sendai casts Timestop without warning and Balthezar is given some free target practice to take me down to 58hp. He casts Tiger Strike as he too is Timestopped but Sendai has arrived to cast some spells (buffs and de-buffs). Time starts to flow so I glug a superior potion as a lava bomb erupts.  I'm thrown to the edge of the ring and lay there stunned as Balthezar and Sarevok make sure I don't get up again.

(pfft, that last one took a long time, need to be more liberal with Focus and hope Sendai obliges with a Timestop)

[Gate70]

Balthezar is a huge interference and although the rest have their moments he's the one that doesn't give Veyal a break. It wasn't an option for me but I highly recommend anybody who can get him to fight with them instead of against them does so.

6.
I fail two timestops, Balthezar toys with me in the first and finishes me in the second.

7.
I have to glug a healer. Focus has expired and Timestop is initiated before another Focus is available. As time re-commences I am caught in an implosion and either it or Balthezar end another battle.

Finding it very hard to time things. I think Focus should last 30 seconds and be available after another 30 seconds but using pause/unpause I can do many laps of the ring before it becomes available again. May have to try auto-pause at round end. Pity there isn't an auto-pause - aura cleared.

8.
Balthezar interrupts a Focus as Sendai casts Timestop and is active enough in it to almost kill me. As time starts Abazigal steps in with his sword to claim victory 8.

9.
I've noticed an "Unleash" special ability so decide to try it out on Sarevok. He saves, but still takes 27 damage and is knocked back. One for Balthezar then. I've been playing on one side of the ring and seen no sign of Illasera either. I try a teleport but a dirty aura means Abazigal chunks me.

[The Potty 1]

Wow. This is on core right? Perhaps I should be happy with another win on easy

A minor and slightly plausible cheat you could try is to console in an underdark mind flayer control circlet MISC9X, which can be used to dominate Ascension Sarevok. A mage or cleric could save one for later by lowering the magic resistance of a mind flayer and dominating it to open the door, you could have saved one by changing into the slayer and opening the door yourself. Note scs may have changed Sarevok to be immune.

[Gate70]

Yes, core & I'm sure I read somewhere about the circlet being neutralised but can't see it in SCS or Ascension. I've often collected half a dozen of them and never used them elsewhere so easy to justify. Anyway this was the situation at last night;

10.
I start with an Unleash (white effects show where Balthezar started and where he was pushed back to) as Yaga Shura drops a lava bomb for a fireball type of effect.


Sendai starts with a Timestop (the randomness of her spells is, I assume, SCS and makes it very difficult to work against). Balthezar has cast Lunar Stance and closes in for some more free combat, finishing with a Tiger Strike to stun me as the Timestop ends. I am surrounded but just spot the Fallen Deva claim the kill.

11. to 22.
Balthezar often got free attacks in Timestop thanks to Lunar Stance. Typically adding a Tiger Strike or Shadowless Kick.
I managed to join him in a couple of Timestops in monk form but his special attacks would stop me dead.
I failed to join him in a Ravager Timestop (this was one plan, will persevere here).
I almost killed Illasera in one Timestop before Balthezar incapacitated me.
A couple of deaths due to Implosion, or clustered attackers while imploded.

My options so far are;
a) Trick Balthezar into wasting his Tiger Strike and Shadowless Kick abilities. Time consuming and easy to get wrong.
Staying on the left as Illasera remains hidden. Abazigal tends to get more frequent hits this way.
c) Ravagering Balthezar in a Timestop. Ravager is hard to Focus (bigger target or out of control, not sure if Sendai actively avoids Timestop when the Ravager is active too).

As for each enemy here are my current thoughts;
Fallen Deva. No real danger, can be killed by friendly Blade Barrier or Lava Bomb.
Illasera. Not particularly dangerous but her arrows can stop me momentarily and create other opportunities.
Yaga Shura. No danger except his lava bombs cause a lot of damage. Can hurt his allies too though.
Sendai. Her Timestop and Implosion can both be game-enders and tricky to avoid. No risk otherwise.
Abazigal. A freaking nightmare up close but can see several options (Ravager Hardiness , hit & run, ranged).
Balthezar. Can out-fight Veyal and is quicker, I need to Ravager him but Abazigal and Yaga Shura join in then.
Sarevok. Flawed. I'm immune to his weapons, he's not fast and Blade Barrier/Lava Bomb can kill him.

Melissan. Not seen yet but keen to try Control Demon - have tried this in Ascension and aware she may control them straight back (although I saw Control fail in the pools session so maybe she doesn't)

I would tone Balthezar down a bit and give Sarevok some options (a sword +4 with an extra effect such as temporary -1 to a random attribute, and potions of speed, strength, heroism, absorbtion, etc. would be relatively simple additions that would boost him significantly).

Am tempted to do a know your enemy session (where Balthezar suffers an accidental CTRL-Y) so I can refine an approach for the others when I finally find his weak-spot.

Modifié par Gate70, 17 octobre 2012 - 04:41 .

[Gate70]

& Veyal is retiring.

As soon as Balthezar is down (nothing to do with my "amazing skills", just CRTL-Y in a Timestop) Melissan arrives to finish Veyal in the same Timestop. I tried a second version; to outlast the two timestops before killing Balthezar only for him to Tiger Strike stun me as I teleported. I arrived at the opposite essence pool but he was there in two seconds to soften me up further. He toyed with Veyal just long enough to allow Abazigal time to move between pools and join in for a tag-team death. A third attempt at "Novice" level lasted longer before another stunning ability from Balthezar ended it. I can see potential but don't really want to continue further.

While I still appreciate Ascension this final battle (1 hit from a hyperactive enemy and you're out) isn't my idea of fun. I'm going to blank this frustrating end out and instead remember the highlight of the run where I hung in against Sendai and slowly clawed my way back to defeat her.

I'll lurk here and see how others get on so best of luck to you and I hope to see some great examples of how to deal with the Throne.

The Potty 1, don't be discouraged - what one player/character combination finds impossible may well be far more enjoyable for another combination. I would suggest at least trying this battle at your existing setting before lowering the slider.

[Alesia_BH]

The Potty 1 wrote...
 Perhaps I should be happy with another win on easy

Perhaps. The SCS scripting does make the Throne battles noticeably more challenging...

Gate70 wrote...
Balthezar is a huge interference and although the rest have their moments he's the one that doesn't give Veyal a break.

I can imagine. When Alesia (who had allied with Bodhi) was fiddling with the final battle, I noticed that Balthazar made a pure movement based approach unworkable. She ultimately worked out a way to Assassinate Balthazar in her opening, but he was a nuisance in earlier trials.

It wasn't an option for me but I highly recommend anybody who can get him to fight with them instead of against them does so.

Balthazar can be very nearly irrelevant for Rogues and perhaps some other classes, but recruiting him could make a huge difference for others. For a Monk, I could easily see Balthazar's allegiance making the difference between success and failure.

For everyone's reference, recruiting Balthazar with a Good or Neutral character requires Charisma and Wisdom scores above 15 and a Reputation above 18 (note that this implies that there is a non-trivial price to be paid for going Ravager...). Evil players may be able to recruit him with exceptional Wisdom and Charisma scores though the details are less clear here. 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 17 octobre 2012 - 06:36 .

[Alesia_BH]

@Gate- I just saw your post. I'm sorry to hear Veyal is retiring.

I'd offer advice but, frankly, I'm not sure how to approach the SCS version with a Warrior- especially a Balthazar opposed Warrior who can't use Small Shields. One of the reasons I started this thread is to learn new ways of approaching the SCS version of the final battle, hopefully freeing me to use more non-rogues in the No Reload Challenge.

If this is truly the end, then know that Veyal's run was appreciated nonetheless: I really enjoyed the Sendai post as well as others. He had some great battles irrespective of his trials at the Throne. It was a good ride: frack the destination.

Please do feel free to try with another character (maybe even a Monk that can recruit Balthy). I'm sure I and others will root him on if you do.

Cheers,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 17 octobre 2012 - 06:38 .

[Alesia_BH]

Btw. For reference, here are a couple of examples of SCS-Ascension final confrontation Rogue solos from the No Reload Challenge thread.

Alesia, Bounty Hunter
http://social.biowar...ndex/3120942/66

Alyssa, Mage/Thief
http://social.biowar...dex/3120942/206

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 17 octobre 2012 - 07:01 .

[Gate70]

Alesia_BH wrote...
For everyone's reference, recruiting Balthazar with a Good or Neutral character requires Charisma and Wisdom scores above 15 and a Reputation above 18 (note that this implies that there is a non-trivial price to be paid for going Ravager...). Evil players may be able to recruit him with exceptional Wisdom and Charisma scores though the details are less clear here.

For evil - 18 in each of charisma, wisdom and reputation does it. I tried with a potion of insight and a ring of influence to have artificial 18's and that didn't work in my install so looks like natural 18's are needed (hmm just need to check a character standing outside Candlekeep...at least I might not have wasted too much time).

Modifié par Gate70, 17 octobre 2012 - 11:38 .

[Alesia_BH]

Gate70 wrote...
For evil - 18 in each of charisma, wisdom and reputation does it. I tried with a potion of insight and a ring of influence to have artificial 18's and that didn't work in my install so looks like natural 18's are needed

Thanks for doing the dilligence on that Gate70!

(...at least I might not have wasted too much time).

I'm not entirely sure what you meant by this comment, but I'll note that I think you should be congratulated on an excellent run. To be completely honest, when you said you were entering with a rolled in ToB vanilla Monk with all the Improved Enclaves installed, I thought you had exactly no chance of reaching Mel- let alone beating her (that's what I meant when I said "sounds tricky").  I expected repeated beatings at the hands of Illasera and some frustration against Gromnir followed by a brick wall in Sendai or Abazigal's Lair (whichever you did first). Veyal far exceeded my expectations. So again, congrats!

Best,

A.

Btw Is there any way you can export Pendal to an SCS/Ascension install? He seems cabpable, and it would be nice to add a SCS/Ascension Solo to his resume now that he is a Trilogy No Reloader.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 19 octobre 2012 - 10:58 .

[DMWW]

touch_of_the_void wrote...

So effectively SotA means immunity from single-target spells? Or they will cast spells into it anyway? Either way sounds like a design oversight.

Yep.

I don't advise making long-term strategies that assume it will last...

[ussnorway]

Could I please get you to hold off on plugging it until... no that would be unethical, nevermind.

[Alesia_BH]

Quick Note on Abigail's Game:

Dreading Abazigal...

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 octobre 2012 - 12:04 .

[DMWW]

ussnorway wrote...

Could I please get you to hold off on plugging it until... no that would be unethical, nevermind.

Don't worry, you've got a few weeks safety margin!

Modifié par DMWW, 18 octobre 2012 - 12:43 .

[Gate70]

Alesia_BH wrote...
Dreading Abazigal...

I'm looking forward to seeing your approach, and which bit(s) in particular you're concerned about. Have you got the SCS Improved Lair changes too?

[ussnorway]

Tud2:

Well it took a while but I finally managed to dispatch Gromnir with a single ‘Harm’... thanks to whichever one of the gods for putting stairs here is all I really have to say.

   

   

   

I did have to fight a horde of dwarfs and elves first but simple numbers don’t bother me unless they have range weapons... Liberating the poor saps locked away in the catacombs has my rep back up to max so maybe I can talk Balthazar  into helping a sister out but I’m still evil of course so perhaps not? On the down side the battle mages got two kills in before I figured out that ‘Flamestrikes’ will bypass their defences... I had already killed Gromnir and could/ should have just walked away but stupid me had to go back in and finish the fight.  I’ve parked Casta on the road outside Saradush.

Deaths 1&2 = the black battle mage i.e. Gromnirs’ peons.

[Alesia_BH]

Have you got the SCS Improved Lair changes too?

No undercard: just the main event. I intend to install the Improved Lair when I'm able.

Gate70 wrote...
I'm looking forward to seeing your approach, and which bit(s) in particular you're concerned about.

Once again, its Tamah -and Tamah alone- that I fear. Abigail has already had her first reload at her hands(claws...). She'll likely take a few more.


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 19 octobre 2012 - 06:18 .

[The Potty 1]

I got stuck on the chromatic demon, several reloads but nothing I do gets it below 'barely injured'. I tried gww flail of ages, which only misses lightning gamage on the slime form. I tried a mix of bows and crossbows, arrows of ice & acid, bolts of lightning, and native firetooth xbow. I cheated in Vailor's helm and tried 2x ages gwws. I tried a couple of gwws with that 2-handed sword with the 5% chance of a 10d6 fireball. I tried fighting in the cold room, and the poison room. Nothing does more than 1 hp damage per hit, except the fireball, which did 10. All the while the demon is dropping acid blobs, cone of colds, fireballs, and chain lightnings. Hm. Perhaps I should burn a couple of elemental protection scrolls. Facepalms all around yes?

I retreated for now, and am currently doing the Tactics ritual. I realise this is a bit broken, but I plan to grab the armor from the yellow dragon, which provides slashing damage resistance (I think).

[Alesia_BH]

Tougher Abazigal: A How-Not-To Guide for Clerics

Abigail has defeated Abazgial. Ten times.

But before Abigail could take her multiple victory laps, I insisted on displaying my now legendary inability to learn from my mistakes in this battle. Tamah dropped Abigail three times before the victories came- with each death being easily avoided had I heeded the lessons of Ashoka and Alessandra's runs. I now feel eminently qualified to publish a How-Not-To Guide Guide for the Tougher Abazigal fight: here it is...

First the Drakes. This was handled reasonably well. Abigail buffed outside and then put down a Deva as soon as she entered the hall. The Deva then ran distraction while Abigail used her Dispel Magics to work through the Stoneskins. It was then death by Energy Blades for each and every.


After cleaning up the Salamanders, Abigail PPlaned -loaded Level 7 with Firestorms- and returned to face human Abazigal.

The human Abazigal fight was a lot of this.


And a whole lot of that.


But just enough of this as well.


Once Abazigal was about to flip, Abigail layered on her buffs. Her plan was to flip Abazigal, head for the hidey-hole, unload her Firestorms, and then finish with Harms or The Thrower. Abigail's plan made sense, but I botched it in every way possible: hence the How-Not-To Guide.

1. Thou shalt not flip Abazigal while standing to the East of him.


Because if you do, you can be Wing Buffeted eastward, trapped by the door, and killed like Ashoka.


2. Thou shalt not invite Tamah to the Hidey-Hole

Because then you have a nasty breath weapon to deal with and can die like Alessandra.


3. Thou shalt not finish Abazigal in melee without Gromnir as hatter.

Because even if you have boxed Tamah out of the Hidey-Hole by pulling Abazigal, you will be within Tamah's breath weapon range once you approach.


So, that's enough about how to do it wrong. What about how to do it right?

Head Northwest.


Abazigal and Tamah will chase. If you are wearing the Cloak of Reflection, Tamah will be the only one using her breath weapon and the animation will let Abazigal overtake her. Keep your hat on, run Chaotic Commands, and you'll be fine- just stay on the move. 


Once Abazigal is in the lead, break South to the Hidey-Hole.


From the Hidey-Hole unload your Firestorms.



Buff up, dispel his Stoneskins, and go to work with the strength damage stacking range weapon of your choice.


And then -before you know it- the grand flames of your existance will snuff out the pathetic fool.


Fin.

Best,

A.


ToB Reloads: 3 (Tamah)

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 19 octobre 2012 - 12:06 .

[Matuse]

For the Chromatic Demon - You don't really care about his XP, so see about trapping him in the poison room. Run him in, then loop out and shut the door on him. He'll die soon enough.