138 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

ThatoneWarden99 wrote...

Still there, that is true, but for how long?

OP has a point, we do come across as an unruly crowd. There's only so much whining and demanding someone can take before they decide they don't give a damn anymore.

As it stands, this has been happening for too long.

Definitely, and I think that argument can be made for pretty much every game forum around.

Even something like the The Old Republic facebook page is just incredible with the bitter vitriolic posts.

Its not right, not by a long shot, but I think in BioWares case - there was a pretty dramatic shift in their games, so it was inevitable. Kind of like a collection of battling ideologies between old fans, new fans, casual gamers, interested parties, and that annoying nephew who comes over and takes over your computer.

[marshalleck]

Icinix wrote...

ThatoneWarden99 wrote...

Still there, that is true, but for how long?

OP has a point, we do come across as an unruly crowd. There's only so much whining and demanding someone can take before they decide they don't give a damn anymore.

As it stands, this has been happening for too long.

Definitely, and I think that argument can be made for pretty much every game forum around.

Even something like the The Old Republic facebook page is just incredible with the bitter vitriolic posts.

Its not right, not by a long shot, but I think in BioWares case - there was a pretty dramatic shift in their games, so it was inevitable. Kind of like a collection of battling ideologies between old fans, new fans, casual gamers, interested parties, and that annoying nephew who comes over and takes over your computer.

In my experience, the tone and tenor of game developer forums accurately reflect the general sentiment regarding said developer's games. An unruly and vicious community is the byproduct of a game, or series of games that leave their players in such a mood after playing them. 

There are neutral, and even generally positive communities out there. 

The shift these forums have seen follows the declining quality of Bioware's games.

Modifié par marshalleck, 29 septembre 2012 - 04:03 .

[ThatoneWarden99]

marshalleck wrote...

Icinix wrote...

ThatoneWarden99 wrote...

Still there, that is true, but for how long?

OP has a point, we do come across as an unruly crowd. There's only so much whining and demanding someone can take before they decide they don't give a damn anymore.

As it stands, this has been happening for too long.

Definitely, and I think that argument can be made for pretty much every game forum around.

Even something like the The Old Republic facebook page is just incredible with the bitter vitriolic posts.

Its not right, not by a long shot, but I think in BioWares case - there was a pretty dramatic shift in their games, so it was inevitable. Kind of like a collection of battling ideologies between old fans, new fans, casual gamers, interested parties, and that annoying nephew who comes over and takes over your computer.

In my experience, the tone and tenor of game developer forums accurately reflect the general sentiment regarding said developer's games. An unruly and vicious community is the byproduct of a game, or series of games that leave their players in such a mood after playing them. 

There are neutral, and even generally positive communities out there. 

Well, there is no denying that there was a shift in their games. Maybe that is the reason for why the community reacts the way it does. The thing that worries me the most is the increasing negativity in the community. Sure, there were a few that were here and there, but for the most part there was another handful that were optimistic.

Nowadays, the forums are buried under piles and piles of criticism, insults, and plain viciousness. Those who still had something good to say were scattered to the winds.

That is why I feel personal relief when I can find a thread like this one, that still speaks of faith and optimism and all that.

[marshalleck]

Well, without going over the same old things everyone is already aware of...hopes have been dashed, repeatedly. Optimism turns to bitterness.

[Lithuasil]

Avejajed wrote...

They are never going to take us seriously unless we stop acting like half-wit orcs every time someone disagrees with us. I feel like they think we're some kind of big joke and I really can't believe any of you want that. I need to take my own advice sometimes too, I'll admit that. But these forums have really just become a really hateful place- it's one thing to get it from other forumites, it's another to get it from the devs themselves. A little respect for others goes a long way. It's a lesson I'm learning still.

As much as I can understand your desire for a little more harmony (or failing that, two semesters of Logic mandatory for everyone) around these parts - there's kind of a downward spiral here. Imagine you were a dev in a forum, were people abuse even threads like this to tell you how much your games suck - would you be able to muster up the patience to carefully consider each and every case individually, after years of this? 

[ThatoneWarden99]

marshalleck wrote...

Well, without going over the same old things everyone is already aware of...hopes have been dashed, repeatedly. Optimism turns to bitterness.

True, very true.

I myself sometimes have a tinge of bitterness at what things have become. Hope is a powerful thing, though.

[Icinix]

Indeed.

It has a flow on affect too - even something like Endless Space forums was filled with a lot of negativity because of past experiences with other unrelated developers. Its almost become expected for companies to do the wrong thing by the consumer then package is up as "providing the best experience for the user."

Modifié par Icinix, 29 septembre 2012 - 04:12 .

[ThatoneWarden99]

Icinix wrote...

Indeed.

It has a flow on affect too - even something like Endless Space forums was filled with a lot of negativity because of past experiences with other unrelated developers. Its almost become expected for companies to do the wrong thing by the consumer then package is up as "providing the best experience for the user."

Whether or not we like to acknowledge it, there is always something that will not do justice to the consumers. Maybe not the majority, but some.

Due to that, it will always boil down to "providing the best experience for the user." They can only hope that they can appeal to what matters the most.

[Icinix]

ThatoneWarden99 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Indeed.

It has a flow on affect too - even something like Endless Space forums was filled with a lot of negativity because of past experiences with other unrelated developers. Its almost become expected for companies to do the wrong thing by the consumer then package is up as "providing the best experience for the user."

Whether or not we like to acknowledge it, there is always something that will not do justice to the consumers. Maybe not the majority, but some.

Due to that, it will always boil down to "providing the best experience for the user." They can only hope that they can appeal to what matters the most.

Yeah, but forcing an always on DRM for players and calling that "proving the best experience" massively shatters your credibility as a developer. (I'm only using that as an example - not as the be all and end all either.)

I don't believe people wake up one morning and decide to be angry on mass like they seem to be these days, I think its more of a reaction to the way gaming companies have been treating gamers. It takes years to build a good reputation - only a few bad calls to ruin it.

[ThatoneWarden99]

Icinix wrote...

ThatoneWarden99 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Indeed.

It has a flow on affect too - even something like Endless Space forums was filled with a lot of negativity because of past experiences with other unrelated developers. Its almost become expected for companies to do the wrong thing by the consumer then package is up as "providing the best experience for the user."

Whether or not we like to acknowledge it, there is always something that will not do justice to the consumers. Maybe not the majority, but some.

Due to that, it will always boil down to "providing the best experience for the user." They can only hope that they can appeal to what matters the most.

Yeah, but forcing an always on DRM for players and calling that "proving the best experience" massively shatters your credibility as a developer. (I'm only using that as an example - not as the be all and end all either.)

I don't believe people wake up one morning and decide to be angry on mass like they seem to be these days, I think its more of a reaction to the way gaming companies have been treating gamers. It takes years to build a good reputation - only a few bad calls to ruin it.

It's true, the general sentiment could be seen as a reaction. After all, before the ME3 and DA2 fiascos, the community seemed to be a much more happier place. Even after all the years that Bioware pass along, solidifying their reputation.

I feel that this mood could also affect the developer, and cause them to have troubles. In fact, I read an article on IGN that provided information that, the two good docters of Bioware may have left due to the feedback they recieved from the fans. After all, it is majorly demoralizing to see your own game be petitioned by the consumers.

That is why I feel relieved that the OP made a thread like this, a reminder that some still believe they can achieve good things. Sure, it might take a few years before things go back to normal, but now is as good as any moment to start.

Modifié par ThatoneWarden99, 29 septembre 2012 - 04:34 .

[Icinix]

Avejajed wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

They are never going to take us seriously unless we stop acting like half-wit orcs every time someone disagrees with us. I feel like they think we're some kind of big joke and I really can't believe any of you want that. I need to take my own advice sometimes too, I'll admit that. But these forums have really just become a really hateful place- it's one thing to get it from other forumites, it's another to get it from the devs themselves. A little respect for others goes a long way. It's a lesson I'm learning still.

As much as I can understand your desire for a little more harmony (or failing that, two semesters of Logic mandatory for everyone) around these parts - there's kind of a downward spiral here. Imagine you were a dev in a forum, were people abuse even threads like this to tell you how much your games suck - would you be able to muster up the patience to carefully consider each and every case individually, after years of this? 

No, I see your point. It is our fault, really. But I do hope somewhere, they remember that some of us really -do- care, and we really -do- appreciate them and that they can remember that although this forum is an angry mob full of people with pitchforks, we're still here because at some point, they made an impression on our lives. I was in a bad place in my life when I started playing Origins. I was in a place where I felt very out of place, everyone I knew now lived 3000 miles away, and I was lonely. And someone at work suggested I play the game, since they knew I was a gamer and that I liked Fable a lot. So I picked it up, and after a long, annoying day at my new job, that I hated, I'd come home and be a hero. A lot of has changed since then, during my playthrough I met my now fiancee. I got a new, great job. When I play Origins now, I remember all the changes I went through- all those lonely nights when the BSN and my Warden were my companions. So yeah, maybe I'm a nerd, and maybe I do have stupid opinions, but I care about this place. The friends I have made here will be friends forever. Two are coming to my wedding. I'm vacationing next year with several more. Our husbands and boyfriends have become friends. So this place is special to me. And  I have every right to not want it to become a place that is no longer welcoming.  I know some of you are going to say that's awfully dramatic. That I'm reading way too much into a forum and maybe I ought to get out of the house sometimes. But I don't care. I'm not going to aplogize for being who I am.
Or thinking what I think.

It is awfully dramatic.....but thats ok. Its a fair comment.

[marshalleck]

Sadly, a look at history shows things are very unlikely to ever "go back to normal" after you've been acquired by EA.

[ThatoneWarden99]

marshalleck wrote...

Sadly, a look at history shows things are very unlikely to ever "go back to normal" after you've been acquired by EA.

As much as I wish I could remain ignorant to what you say, it is an unavoidable truth. Under EA, the future that many hope for is bleak.

Still, as I mentioned before, hope is a powerful thing.

Modifié par ThatoneWarden99, 29 septembre 2012 - 04:37 .

[deuce985]

marshalleck wrote...

You don't need to claim to speak for anyone but yourself.

I agree with OP. Although, I don't think Bioware comes off as snarky. The only dev that really does that is David but I don't think he intends it to be overly snarky towards us. He's just being like the other forum goers. If he didn't want to be here, he wouldn't post. It's hard to detect sarcasm on the internet but I believe Mr. Gaider does it a lot.

[Lithuasil]

Avejajed wrote...

My flair for the dramatic is a gift.

Dramatic is fine, as is a healthy amount of passion regarding the subject matter. Though thinking about it, I'm not quite sure what (beyond the occasional, sufficiently dramatic thread I suppose) we (we here meaning the part of the community interested in improving the tone and quality of interactions in these forums) can do.
The community is no-where near organized enough to simply ignore the unpleasant people away - and with this being the internet, hoping for a conscious betterment of the perpetrators is moot. 

[Icinix]

ThatoneWarden99 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

ThatoneWarden99 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Indeed.

It has a flow on affect too - even something like Endless Space forums was filled with a lot of negativity because of past experiences with other unrelated developers. Its almost become expected for companies to do the wrong thing by the consumer then package is up as "providing the best experience for the user."

Whether or not we like to acknowledge it, there is always something that will not do justice to the consumers. Maybe not the majority, but some.

Due to that, it will always boil down to "providing the best experience for the user." They can only hope that they can appeal to what matters the most.

Yeah, but forcing an always on DRM for players and calling that "proving the best experience" massively shatters your credibility as a developer. (I'm only using that as an example - not as the be all and end all either.)

I don't believe people wake up one morning and decide to be angry on mass like they seem to be these days, I think its more of a reaction to the way gaming companies have been treating gamers. It takes years to build a good reputation - only a few bad calls to ruin it.

It's true, the general sentiment could be seen as a reaction. After all, before the ME3 and DA2 fiascos, the community seemed to be a much more happier place. Even after all the years that Bioware pass along, solidifying their reputation.

I feel that this mood could also affect the developer, and cause them to have troubles. In fact, I read an article on IGN that provided information that, the two good docters of Bioware may have left due to the feedback they recieved from the fans. After all, it is majorly demoralizing to see your own game be petitioned by the consumers.

That is why I feel relieved that the OP made a thread like this, a reminder that some still believe they can achieve good things. Sure, it might take a few years before things go back to normal, but now is as good as any moment to start.

Agreed totally. I hate those '..then why are you still here?' comments if I'm saying I didn't like some aspect of BioWare.

I'm here because I enjoy the forums, I enjoy BioWares games - even if I didn't think they were as good as they could be - I played them through to completition at least once and I still follow their other games with interest. But I'm not going to just up and leave if I don't like the way one thing is going, and I'm not going to suck it all up with a smile if I don't think its good.

You can still be a fan and have high hopes for something while bringing up criticisms at the same time. There will always be bad eggs, but they don't need to be the end of everything. Thats why you have bans, not to punish the poster, but make it better for the people still here.

[deuce985]

Avejajed wrote...

You're right. I shouldn't have presumed to speak for the entirety of the BSN- I assumed that most people on a fan forum were fans and most people who were fans would appreciate a little respect. But think it's too much to ask for the developers to respect us when we can't respect each other.

Hey...how about you get out of here with your logic and all?

lol

Seriously. Why hang around a fan forum if you're not a "fan" or "don't care" or have "no hope things will ever change".

Jeez.

[marshalleck]

Schadenfreude, that's why.