Plaintiff wrote...
Nooooo!addiction21 wrote...
Upsettingshorts wrote...
snip
Go back to the pug in a skullcap. That man chewing is distracting.
I'm relatively certain that's Archie Kennedy from Hornblower, and he's badass.
Guest_PurebredCorn_*
Plaintiff wrote...
Nooooo!addiction21 wrote...
Upsettingshorts wrote...
snip
Go back to the pug in a skullcap. That man chewing is distracting.
I'm relatively certain that's Archie Kennedy from Hornblower, and he's badass.
Modifié par PurebredCorn, 29 septembre 2012 - 07:24 .
Well there we go. Kinda funny that his outfit is so similar when the settings are so disparate.TelvanniWarlord wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Nooooo!addiction21 wrote...
Upsettingshorts wrote...
snip
Go back to the pug in a skullcap. That man chewing is distracting.
I'm relatively certain that's Archie Kennedy from Hornblower, and he's badass.
I could be wrong but I think that's actually Lee Adama from BSG. Same actor though regardless.
marshalleck wrote...
In my experience, the tone and tenor of game developer forums accurately reflect the general sentiment regarding said developer's games. An unruly and vicious community is the byproduct of a game, or series of games that leave their players in such a mood after playing them.Icinix wrote...
ThatoneWarden99 wrote...
Still there, that is true, but for how long?
OP has a point, we do come across as an unruly crowd. There's only so much whining and demanding someone can take before they decide they don't give a damn anymore.
As it stands, this has been happening for too long.
Definitely, and I think that argument can be made for pretty much every game forum around.
Even something like the The Old Republic facebook page is just incredible with the bitter vitriolic posts.
Its not right, not by a long shot, but I think in BioWares case - there was a pretty dramatic shift in their games, so it was inevitable. Kind of like a collection of battling ideologies between old fans, new fans, casual gamers, interested parties, and that annoying nephew who comes over and takes over your computer.
There are neutral, and even generally positive communities out there.
The shift these forums have seen follows the declining quality of Bioware's games.
Maria Caliban wrote...
^ David is a soft touch.Icinix wrote...
The dynamic of these forums has definitely changed since the old forums and the early days.
I'd say it's a cycle. I haven't seen anything here that didn't pop up on the old BioWare boards.
The Grey Nayr wrote...
Entitlement is a funky thing nowadays.
A fraction of the community seems to think that because they pay for Bioware's products, that they are obligated to do everything as the fans want it, or how they think they know what's truer to the lore than the writers themselves do(which is absurd). And when they don't get their way, they unleash hell.
Largely it seems like some are confusing their right to have an opinion as an excuse to troll the place in anger.
It might not be the case, but a part of me still feels like that response towards DAII was what got the Exalted March cancelled.(Which was sad, it took me three days to download Mark of the Assassin off of the PSN thanks to my poor connection. But it was worth it, and TEM would have been too.)
Modifié par deuce985, 29 septembre 2012 - 07:31 .
I'm pretty sure it's just everywhere, all the time, about everything.Icinix wrote...
Maria Caliban wrote...
^ David is a soft touch.Icinix wrote...
The dynamic of these forums has definitely changed since the old forums and the early days.
I'd say it's a cycle. I haven't seen anything here that didn't pop up on the old BioWare boards.
It might be a whole gaming cycle - I remember a whole lot of angry everywhere about the same time as Deus Ex 2 - then it died down again.
PurebredCorn wrote...
Avejajed wrote...
As for specific examples where I have felt that the snark has gone from snark to mean- absolutely. For instance, in the dead mother thread- the OP asked very nicely if Bioware could possibly quit killing off the protaganist's parents. There were a lot of reasons why the OP gave this suggestion- and one of those reasons was that her own mother died when she was a teenager- and watching Hawke's mother die in her arms was a painful experience to play through. And not just imaginary painful, actually painful. So that request came from a personal place, and was suggested with grace, eloquence, and respect. To that, David Gaider said...and I quote.
"Ah, okay. Got it.
Written in notebook: "Next time kill two mothers instead of one. No point getting stale.""
Wow, that's a new low even for him.
Modifié par Lasien, 29 septembre 2012 - 07:44 .
Plaintiff wrote...
I'm pretty sure it's just everywhere, all the time, about everything.Icinix wrote...
Maria Caliban wrote...
^ David is a soft touch.Icinix wrote...
The dynamic of these forums has definitely changed since the old forums and the early days.
I'd say it's a cycle. I haven't seen anything here that didn't pop up on the old BioWare boards.
It might be a whole gaming cycle - I remember a whole lot of angry everywhere about the same time as Deus Ex 2 - then it died down again.
Guest_PurebredCorn_*
Lasien wrote...
I understand that that can be read as mean, and I am not necessarily defending, but by that point in the thread, practically everyone was just making jokes, and he was joining in.
I would like to point out that, without the joke, he acknowledged the original complaint, and a few lines in the OP are very easy to miss.
There could have also been some defensiveness there, as the selection of posters (that weren't being sarcastic/jokey/etc.) were really just going on and on about how it was a stupid disney trope and lazy writing.
Modifié par PurebredCorn, 29 septembre 2012 - 03:58 .
Yeah... i started on page 1 and replied as I read... Sorry!PurebredCorn wrote...
Lasien wrote...
PurebredCorn wrote...
Avejajed wrote...
As for specific examples where I have felt that the snark has gone from snark to mean- absolutely. For instance, in the dead mother thread- the OP asked very nicely if Bioware could possibly quit killing off the protaganist's parents. There were a lot of reasons why the OP gave this suggestion- and one of those reasons was that her own mother died when she was a teenager- and watching Hawke's mother die in her arms was a painful experience to play through. And not just imaginary painful, actually painful. So that request came from a personal place, and was suggested with grace, eloquence, and respect. To that, David Gaider said...and I quote.
"Ah, okay. Got it.
Written in notebook: "Next time kill two mothers instead of one. No point getting stale.""
Wow, that's a new low even for him.
I understand that that can be read as mean, and I am not necessarily defending, but by that point in the thread, practically everyone was just making jokes, and he was joining in.
I would like to point out that, without the joke, he acknowledged the original complaint, and a few lines in the OP are very easy to miss.
There could have also been some defensiveness there, as the selection of posters (that weren't being sarcastic/jokey/etc.) were really just going on and on about how it was a stupid disney trope and lazy writing.
David Gaider has cleared this up already, on the previous page of this thread.
There are times when devs appear to be "absent" from the forums. I know that you guys read them, but I have to constantly remind myself of this. I sometimes think that a simple "We're aware it's an issue for some players," or something along those lines would go a long way.David Gaider wrote...
So one should not fear that their reasonable posts are going completely unheeded... even if it's always possible some might get lost amid the general rumblings of the threads. We cannot, after all, read everything.
Modifié par nightscrawl, 29 septembre 2012 - 12:15 .
Guest_Guest12345_*
Modifié par scyphozoa, 29 septembre 2012 - 12:26 .
I had to stop reading the WoW forums after a while. I haven't regularly read them for about 3+ years (my height was during the BC expansion). I have spent thousands of dollars on WoW: I've paid a sub for almost seven years, bought two tickets to Blizzcon, purchased all of the expansion Collector's Editions, and more. At no time do I ever feel that Blizzard has to listen to me because "I pay $15/mo and I deserve it." That attitude is just disgusting. Even worse, it's totally non-productive. I imagine that the devs react the same way to that argument as a cop who is writing a traffic ticket getting told "I pay taxes, I pay your salary!"scyphozoa wrote...
I used to think the negative attitude and behavior on the BSN was unique to Bioware. But it is not. It is the same on the Blizzard forums. It is the same on the Bethesda forums. It is the same all throughout the game industry.
The general premise is that customers think they have a right to behave like ****s when they aren't satisfied. Customers are entitled to voice criticisms, but they are not entitled to throw tantrums and behave like spoiled brats. If you are old enough to be playing Bioware games, then you are old enough to behave and communicate like a civil adult.
Guest_Avejajed_*
scyphozoa wrote...
I used to think the negative attitude and behavior on the BSN was unique to Bioware. But it is not. It is the same on the Blizzard forums. It is the same on the Bethesda forums. It is the same all throughout the game industry.
The general premise is that customers think they have a right to behave like ****s when they aren't satisfied. Customers are entitled to voice criticisms, but they are not entitled to throw tantrums and behave like spoiled brats. If you are old enough to be playing Bioware games, then you are old enough to behave and communicate like a civil adult.
As for the devs, frankly, I think they are fine. And I think the moderators are a bit too lenient. Blizzard and Bethesda, both giant developers, also have the same kind of spoiled brat forum community and they have much more active and strict moderation that shuts that childish bull**** down fast.
In my ~5 years in the Bioware forum community, I have never seen any developer act snarky or rude to a forum member who wasn't entirely deserving of it. Posters who communicate with civility are responded to with civility. It is a basic premise, yet one that many posters are unable to comprehend or unwilling to accept.
Guest_Avejajed_*
nightscrawl wrote...
I had to stop reading the WoW forums after a while. I haven't regularly read them for about 3+ years (my height was during the BC expansion). I have spent thousands of dollars on WoW: I've paid a sub for almost seven years, bought two tickets to Blizzcon, purchased all of the expansion Collector's Editions, and more. At no time do I ever feel that Blizzard has to listen to me because "I pay $15/mo and I deserve it." That attitude is just disgusting. Even worse, it's totally non-productive. I imagine that the devs react the same way to that argument as a cop who is writing a traffic ticket getting told "I pay taxes, I pay your salary!"scyphozoa wrote...
I used to think the negative attitude and behavior on the BSN was unique to Bioware. But it is not. It is the same on the Blizzard forums. It is the same on the Bethesda forums. It is the same all throughout the game industry.
The general premise is that customers think they have a right to behave like ****s when they aren't satisfied. Customers are entitled to voice criticisms, but they are not entitled to throw tantrums and behave like spoiled brats. If you are old enough to be playing Bioware games, then you are old enough to behave and communicate like a civil adult.
No such freakin' thing. "Brontosaurus" was someone sticking a Camarasaurus skull onto an Apatosaurus body and calling it a new dinosaur.Beerfish wrote...
I think I CAN speak for all of us when I say "A brontasaurus is skinny at one end, much larger in the middle and skinny at the other end."
It was a general reference, not a personal one. I've seen it many times on the WoW forums, and just earlier this morning in some other thread here on the BSN (not naming names.)Avejajed wrote...
Heh.
I hope no one thinks I was saying that because I pay for the games I deserve to be listened to.
David referenced this once, I think voicing dismay that he was even listed as a mod at all on the forums. The company probably has all of those people as moderators (including devs) so they can take action when/if they see a problem, instead of forwarding it to someone else. They all work for Bioware (well other than the guest mods), so all of their actions are representative of Bioware, whether that be locking/moving a thread or banning a poster.Avejajed wrote...
I would like to say that I also think that the moderation is a bit slack here. The list of moderators at the bottom of forums is pretty big. I know that the devs and Chris can't be everywhere at once. I know Chris asked us to directly pm one of them instead of hitting the "report" button- are those other moderators that I've never seen post before ever...just not "around"? Honest question. Is it that they need more of them?
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