143 réponses à ce sujet

[frostajulie]

Shinobu wrote...

Just remember that the destination IS as important as the journey.

Quoted because it cannot be quoted enough.  THIS epic truth must NEVER BE FORGOTTEN AGAIN.

[CrimsonZephyr]

"let's make all of our art and entertainment bland like a Fereldan stew"

Fereldan stew is unassuming and hearty; food for real men. Art should be similarly unpretentious.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 29 septembre 2012 - 05:06 .

[Realmzmaster]

I prefer the endings that use the Barnum Effect (or Forer Effect). The Barnum Effect named after P.T. Barnum states We've something for everyone. So there should be Happy, Sad, Good , Bad and Average endings, but the choices to get those endings must not be blatantly obvious.

[TheJediSaint]

Controversy in and of itself is not a bad thing. However, controversy should not be the goal of an ending. The goal of an ending should be to wrap up the plot in a way that is consistent the previously established themes.

Or in other words, not the ending to Mass Effect 3.

[demonic_cookie]

Let's just have good writing. Make a good story, make sure our choices matter, pay off all the promises you make during the game. DAO did it well: it promised you your character will end up fighting a bigass dragon, and you ended up fighting a bigass dragon. In DA2 you were supposed to be this great Champion but ended up just a doof who got swept up in this big time of troubles... Which, a good theme, and I enjoyed the game and was inclined to forgive it for not delivering on the promise (mainly because I got to keep Isabela), but still not really good writing. Especially in a medium that emphasizes the participation of the player.

In other words, there are controversies that are about the creator taking artistic risks, exploring difficult themes, and delivering a story that doesn't flinch and doesn't compromise. And then there are controversies that are just about bad writing.

I'd prefer the first kind

[nightscrawl]

Cerberus Commando wrote...

NO MORE CONTROVERSIAL ENDING($)

Come on... did you have to use the $ sign? That's like those Microsoft haters who go around calling it "M$."

I don't mind controversy, as long as it can all be explained within the parameters of the story. Generally something that is controversial is also not predictable, which is a good thing. Bring on the controversies! >

joshko wrote...

... make you realize you don't know every thing about every thing and that your'e not always right...

I'm... not? *world shattered!*

Modifié par nightscrawl, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:06 .

[Darth Death]

"Start with a bang, end with a bang", my media teacher said once.

[TheJediSaint]

Darth Death wrote...

"Start with a bang, end with a bang", my media teacher said once.

Explosive bookends are the best.

[demonic_cookie]

"Start with a bang, end with a bang", my media teacher said once.

That's actually terrible advice because the most common problem in stories is the "sagging middle syndrome".

[ADeadDiehard]

Shinobu wrote...

Just remember that the destination IS as important as the journey.

Exactly.
My suggestion, don't make something for the purpose of it being controversial/speculative/artsy. Let characters and the plot develop naturally.

Modifié par ADeadDiehard, 29 septembre 2012 - 08:09 .

[Pedrak]

And no cliffhangers. Seriously.

[Ninja Stan]

Cerberus Commando wrote...

 Dear Bioware, I am a loyal fan of Mass Effect and Dragon Age and.... Ok I'm just gonna cut to the god damn chase, guys, if the game that you developed has any type of controversies (like the DAO transition to dragon age 2 or mass effect 3 ending(s) for example) it's a really really bad thing. If your fans are divided into 2 mixed emotions towards the game, it's not good. I don't know how much more simple I could put it. Controversies are not good and if DA3 is gonna have any controversial endings or what not, then well... You guys done (beep!) up. So please, make it good and keep the majority of your fans on your side. PLEASE.

Might I suggest the possibility of multiple endings?

"Controversial" is not something that BioWare has much control over. The "controversy" only occurs when the community is divided on whether a new direction is good or bad. And in that case, every new game feature or change of an old game feature could be considered "controversial."

The only way to not be controversial is to either not change anything at all, in which case nothing new is introduced and nothing is ever advanced or evolved, or that any changes are so bland and unexciting as to go largely unnoticed. And neither seems like a good way for a game developer to grow their audience and make better games.

Consider also that every new game announced by BioWare becomes "controversial" because people like and are accustomed to the old and have no idea what to expect from the new. For the longest time, any new game announcement that wasn't Baldur's Gate related was met with resistance. NWN was "controversial" because it used D&D 3E rather than AD&D 2E, but is now considered one of BioWare's greatest games. KotOR was "controversial" because it was being developed for the Xbox rather than PC, but is now considered not just one of BioWare's best games, but one of the best Star Wars games ever! Jade Empire was "controversial" because it was a brand new IP, but now it is spoken of fondly and remains some users' favourite BioWare game. Mass Effect was "controversial" because it was a new sci-fi IP. ME2 was "controversial" because the game mechanics were changed. DA2 and ME3 remain "controversial" and I have no doubt that whatever project BioWare announces next will be just as "controversial."

The gamers that make up BioWare's audience are diverse, and it would be impossible to develop a game that will appeal equally to everyone. There will be disagreement and dislike, but as long as people keep their heads and provide constructive and mature feedback, the forum will be a much better place to talk about games.

[DeathScepter]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Cerberus Commando wrote...

 Dear Bioware, I am a loyal fan of Mass Effect and Dragon Age and.... Ok I'm just gonna cut to the god damn chase, guys, if the game that you developed has any type of controversies (like the DAO transition to dragon age 2 or mass effect 3 ending(s) for example) it's a really really bad thing. If your fans are divided into 2 mixed emotions towards the game, it's not good. I don't know how much more simple I could put it. Controversies are not good and if DA3 is gonna have any controversial endings or what not, then well... You guys done (beep!) up. So please, make it good and keep the majority of your fans on your side. PLEASE.

Might I suggest the possibility of multiple endings?

"Controversial" is not something that BioWare has much control over. The "controversy" only occurs when the community is divided on whether a new direction is good or bad. And in that case, every new game feature or change of an old game feature could be considered "controversial."

The only way to not be controversial is to either not change anything at all, in which case nothing new is introduced and nothing is ever advanced or evolved, or that any changes are so bland and unexciting as to go largely unnoticed. And neither seems like a good way for a game developer to grow their audience and make better games.

Consider also that every new game announced by BioWare becomes "controversial" because people like and are accustomed to the old and have no idea what to expect from the new. For the longest time, any new game announcement that wasn't Baldur's Gate related was met with resistance. NWN was "controversial" because it used D&D 3E rather than AD&D 2E, but is now considered one of BioWare's greatest games. KotOR was "controversial" because it was being developed for the Xbox rather than PC, but is now considered not just one of BioWare's best games, but one of the best Star Wars games ever! Jade Empire was "controversial" because it was a brand new IP, but now it is spoken of fondly and remains some users' favourite BioWare game. Mass Effect was "controversial" because it was a new sci-fi IP. ME2 was "controversial" because the game mechanics were changed. DA2 and ME3 remain "controversial" and I have no doubt that whatever project BioWare announces next will be just as "controversial."

The gamers that make up BioWare's audience are diverse, and it would be impossible to develop a game that will appeal equally to everyone. There will be disagreement and dislike, but as long as people keep their heads and provide constructive and mature feedback, the forum will be a much better place to talk about games.

All good points.  Also Few of the strengths of Kotor is that it is a solid game with a solid story with a good plot twist. Sidenote: Regardless if it gets re made or not, I will still enjoy Kotor. And I do enjoy Kotor 2 as well.

Jade Empire, DAO/DAOA, DA2, ME1 and ME2 are all great games. **** Even ME3 has some good elements to it, howbeit I do disagree with the direction it went.

[garrusfan1]

I think they learned their lesson and DA2 would have been a lot better but they had like a year and a half to get it released that is very little time it wasn't the people who were making DA2 fault it was the people who gave them that tiny time limit

[Pelle6666]

If you make multiple endings, might I suggest that you make them vary allot and that they give you at least 20 minutes of unique content that make the player feel like they ended the story in their way. Don't make it the same experience until the last second and then give us a slide show that tells us how it all played out, give us dialog like in the end of DA:O or ME1. Those were both very good endings if you could make a couple of different ones it would be awesome!

[iSignIn]

There is no "controversy" when practically everyone cries out in outrage at how bad it is.

That is just "bad", not "controversial".

[SafetyShattered]

Plaintiff wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Paragon endings for everyone.

Now that is a proper ending!

[SafetyShattered]

iSignIn wrote...

There is no "controversy" when practically everyone cries out in outrage at how bad it is.

That is just "bad", not "controversial".

This. ME3 ending wasn't controversial...it was just....bad. So so bad.

[finalcabbage]

Lithuasil wrote...

If Bioware implemented a mechanic to pet baby kittens, there'd be people around here who'd very vocally proclaim their outrage and how cancelled their pre-order is.

Also, there's more good kinds of controversy then there's bad kinds.

Well yeah I'd cancel that preorder.  Who wants to pet kittens when there's puppies in this world?  Bioware ruins everything by not anticipating and catering to my every whim!

[Iron_JG]

As other people have pointed out, the OP has confused "controversial" with "bad and disappointing." A key part of the problems with the ME3 ending is it was abrupt and illogical. DA2 suffered to a much lesser extent from this (mage-allied ending needed work, but I liked the ending overall).

I would reframe it like this: Whatever endings Bioware picks, it needs to make sure the pacing, reasoning and narratives are compelling. I would also point out perfectly happy or sad endings are extremes; that doesn't make them bad to have. They just have to be better thought out, and challenge the player to do as well (or screw up as badly) as possible. Like in ME2 -- it's possible for everyone to survive a suicide mission, provided you take "no margin for error" to heart.

In fewer words, Bioware, I hope you can take your time and do the entire game as well as possible. Don't write an A term paper and tack a C ending onto it.

[finalcabbage]

I didn't really have a problem with the DA2 ending. I think the main complaint many people had was the fact that you just couldn't win, by usual game standards that is. Also the whole thing with Meredith felt like it was straight out of a jrpg. Still, it wasn't a bad ending, in my eyes anyway. I hope DA3's ending is dark and maybe a little depressing. Nothing is worse than a "paint by the numbers" typical western ending.

[Veloric Wu]

Controversial ending is good in general. The problem lies in whether the writers can make good use of it.

Mass Effect 2, in my honest opinion, has the best ending in the trilogy. Mass Effect 3 is good, but it totally wasted the potential diversity left by 2.

In that logic, if DA3: Inquisition can show the impact of Hawke siding with either Mage/Templar in DA2, I'd say it's good ending, no matter how tragic or controversial it might be

[unbentbuzzkill]

the endings weren't that bad it could be worse you could have to kill yourself to stop big giant robots from harvesting all life in the galaxy, why does that sound so familiar?

[Veloric Wu]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

the endings weren't that bad it could be worse you could have to kill yourself to stop big giant robots from harvesting all life in the galaxy, why does that sound so familiar?

Of course it does. In fact, the devs don't encourage you to stop them. They wish you could sacrifice yourself, HELPING the giant robots plant their genes into everyone in the galaxy.