143 réponses à ce sujet

[Dubozz]

I agree with Op. ME3 ending sucks big time. I Don't want this to ruin another good series like Dragon Age.

[R0vena]

Twisted Path wrote...

You know, Neverwinter Nights 2 probably has the worst possible ending a game can have and I just kind of laughed at it and still consider it a great game.

NWN 2 also had Mask of the Betrayer which gave answers to question what happened to the hero (and to some degree - what happened to hero's comrades)  and gave him/her a much more defined ending. (Btw, I loved the choice of endings in the MotB.)
And Storm of Sehir answered some more questions about what happened to hero's comrades.

[Vlk3]

Well, with all the magic going on, ME3 ending wouldn't be that bad in Dragon Age. I mean, the wost problem of ME3 ending is the space magic and the starbrat. Sci-fi game shouldn't go that farr with pseudo-science (we all know that sci-fi requires "forgetting" about some laws of physics and biology, but there's always a borderline that shouldn't be crossed).
But a fantasy world is something entirely different. It should still stick to the lore, as well, but where magic exists, a lot of things might happen and I wouldn't be bothered if a Dragon Age game would end in similar fashion ME3 did. Though, apart from space magic and godchild, ME3 ending was still weak and I hope DA team will come up with something more clever with a good epilogue, that actually gives players some kind of closure.

[Dave of Canada]

RepHope wrote...

hear tht bioware? Less DAO more ME3 please

What are you talking about? ME3 had a happy ending, that's why I'm opposing ME3 endings for DA3.

[RepHope]

Dave of Canada wrote...

RepHope wrote...

hear tht bioware? Less DAO more ME3 please

What are you talking about? ME3 had a happy ending, that's why I'm opposing ME3 endings for DA3.

That was Sarcasm. And none of ME3s endings were "happy" they were all retarded IMO so what is it you're looking for in DA3 s ending? Rocks fall everyone dies? Another DA2 nothing you did mattered in the end? Or something else entirely?

[Ridwan]

motomotogirl wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Ambiguous endings and WTF endings are usually the best. Endings that try to tie everything up neatly (with a cherry on top) are just kind of blah, a la DA:O.

Preach sister.

We should totes go back to being boring, placid, safe and dull.

I'm serious though! It was like those 80s movies where they zoom in on a character, freeze the frame, and say, "John earned a football scholarship and end up marrying Beth. They now have three children." Next person! It was so cheesy lol I was rolling my eyes. DA:O is basically like every fantasy novel I read as a kid. Main caracter is a special snowflake farmboy who rises to greatness, slay the big bad dragon, gets the girl (boy in my case), and saves the world. You even have the option to become king or queen. The ending just basically left me with no feelings whatsoever. I even think ending it with a dramatic scene of the Warden slaying the archdemon, followed by a voice over that talked about how the country recovered afterward, would have been better. Not that silly epilogue! It just amazes me that people like that. I much preferred DA2's ending, which you have to admit had a great "cool" factor, of Cullen and the templars warily backing down, Meredith still smoking... Hawke gives everyone the eye then turns around and struts outta town, flanked by his pals and his girl/guy lol It was awesome in my eyes.

I also did seriously like the ME3 ending, and while I sympathize with people who were pissed about the deus ex machina aspect, I did like the sadness of it... although that's not to say I didn't reply the darn thing so I could get the "good" ending But yes I did like the SADNESS of the ending, the emotions it ripped right out of my beating heart lol Origins did none of that.

Well unlike you and others that seem to think sad endings are cool, some of us play to win.

[Plaintiff]

M25105 wrote...

Well unlike you and others that seem to think sad endings are cool, some of us play to win.

You did win. Completing the story is winning. Sometimes at the end of the story, the hero dies, but that doesn't detract from your victory in the least.

If what you mean is that you wanted Shepard to win, well he did. Either way, the Reaper threat is ended, which is the entire point. The only option that doesn't immediatly result in the end of the threat is walking away entirely, and even then, Shepard still "wins" because as far as he's concerned, he's making the right choice.

One could make the argument that all the endings of ME3 are actually happy.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 avril 2013 - 12:48 .

[Twisted Path]

R0vena wrote...

Twisted Path wrote...

You know, Neverwinter Nights 2 probably has the worst possible ending a game can have and I just kind of laughed at it and still consider it a great game.

NWN 2 also had Mask of the Betrayer which gave answers to question what happened to the hero (and to some degree - what happened to hero's comrades)  and gave him/her a much more defined ending. (Btw, I loved the choice of endings in the MotB.)
And Storm of Sehir answered some more questions about what happened to hero's comrades.

Yeah, someone once described Mask of the Betrayer as Obsidian's appology for the big flaws in Neverwinter Nights 2. Who knows, maybe the next Mass Effect game will be a big appology for (or a correction of,) the problems ME3 had. I'm super skeptical and think it will just be a generic action game.

[9TailsFox]

Plaintiff wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Well unlike you and others that seem to think sad endings are cool, some of us play to win.

You did win. Completing the story is winning. Sometimes at the end of the story, the hero dies, but that doesn't detract from your victory in the least.

If what you mean is that you wanted Shepard to win, well he did. Either way, the Reaper threat is ended, which is the entire point. The only option that doesn't immediatly result in the end of the threat is walking away entirely, and even then, Shepard still "wins" because as far as he's concerned, he's making the right choice.

One could make the argument that all the endings of ME3 are actually happy.

Victory on enemy terms in not victory. Shepard lost at the end he stands crushed and have to do what reapers say or else everybody die. You can't win even if all galaxy united reapers just to strong because writers say so. DAO ultimate sacrifice is victory ME3 ending not. Probably our definition of happy is different because after ME3 I felt crushed and confused.

[Fredward]

motomotogirl wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Ambiguous endings and WTF endings are usually the best. Endings that try to tie everything up neatly (with a cherry on top) are just kind of blah, a la DA:O.

Preach sister.

We should totes go back to being boring, placid, safe and dull.

I'm serious though! It was like those 80s movies where they zoom in on a character, freeze the frame, and say, "John earned a football scholarship and end up marrying Beth. They now have three children." Next person! It was so cheesy lol I was rolling my eyes. DA:O is basically like every fantasy novel I read as a kid. Main caracter is a special snowflake farmboy who rises to greatness, slay the big bad dragon, gets the girl (boy in my case), and saves the world. You even have the option to become king or queen. The ending just basically left me with no feelings whatsoever. I even think ending it with a dramatic scene of the Warden slaying the archdemon, followed by a voice over that talked about how the country recovered afterward, would have been better. Not that silly epilogue! It just amazes me that people like that. I much preferred DA2's ending, which you have to admit had a great "cool" factor, of Cullen and the templars warily backing down, Meredith still smoking... Hawke gives everyone the eye then turns around and struts outta town, flanked by his pals and his girl/guy lol It was awesome in my eyes.

I also did seriously like the ME3 ending, and while I sympathize with people who were pissed about the deus ex machina aspect, I did like the sadness of it... although that's not to say I didn't reply the darn thing so I could get the "good" ending But yes I did like the SADNESS of the ending, the emotions it ripped right out of my beating heart lol Origins did none of that.

I was being serious too! Mind you DA2 didn't do any kind of ending really but ME's was excellent (shaddup about starchildren and non-sensical space magic I'm talking EMOTIONS people) and Origins was... okay? I didn't dislike it but it was just so safe. Apparently Bioshock Infinite's ending is excellent sauce and doesn't make everything uber obvious, aim for that.

Chiramu wrote...
Please don't do that for Dragon Age, the
story has so much promise that I really love the world and I feel
completely disappointed whenever the games don't live up to what they
could be. Or maybe I'm the only one here that has high standards? I
don't know, but a lot of the time that's what it feels like :/.

Yep. That's it right there. What does taste matter when one person's opinion is just objectively better?

[Yalision]

They've already said they are looking seriously at endings. If we are given playable epilogues, that would be awesome. I would be happy with slides like Origins, though at the very least.

[MiSS Provencale]

I agree with the author of the topic! It would be preferable to have several possible end: a happy and tragic. We need choices suites consequences of decisions in the game

[tonofluck21]

9TailsFox wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Well unlike you and others that seem to think sad endings are cool, some of us play to win.

You did win. Completing the story is winning. Sometimes at the end of the story, the hero dies, but that doesn't detract from your victory in the least.

If what you mean is that you wanted Shepard to win, well he did. Either way, the Reaper threat is ended, which is the entire point. The only option that doesn't immediatly result in the end of the threat is walking away entirely, and even then, Shepard still "wins" because as far as he's concerned, he's making the right choice.

One could make the argument that all the endings of ME3 are actually happy.

Victory on enemy terms in not victory. Shepard lost at the end he stands crushed and have to do what reapers say or else everybody die. You can't win even if all galaxy united reapers just to strong because writers say so. DAO ultimate sacrifice is victory ME3 ending not. Probably our definition of happy is different because after ME3 I felt crushed and confused.

You either, destroyed, controlled, or synthesized them. Technically you won, the war is over no matter how you look at it, for you and for them, unless you chose Refuse then you lost. Your enemy shows you how to end it but it is up to you on how to end it maybe its not the way you wanted it to end but it is. Its a victory for some and a loss for others just like all wars.

It was already established that you could not beat them conventionally in ME1. If the Reapers have been wiping out advanced civilizations and race (some of which were more advanced than Shepard's) for millions of years don't think yours is going to be any different regardless of whether or not you united the galaxy. I felt that I had done the right thing and won.

[Zarathiel]

Plaintiff wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Well unlike you and others that seem to think sad endings are cool, some of us play to win.

The only option that doesn't immediatly result in the end of the threat is walking away entirely, and even then, Shepard still "wins" because as far as he's concerned, he's making the right choice.

One could make the argument that all the endings of ME3 are actually happy.

You didn't consider the implications of not stopping the Reapers this cycle, did you? Well, I can't really blame you, because the ME3 writing team didn't either. You see, with Refuse, the next cycle likely won't even be able to get the Crucible to the Citadel. This cycle was an anomaly because the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel. Normally, the Reapers come in from dark space through the Citadel, and use the Citadel to control the entire Mass Relay network. What are the odds that a force as supposedly smart as the Reapers would not repair the damage and ensure that their surprise and mobility advantage will be secure next cycle?

Keep in mind that Shepard is completely aware of this information, having learned all of this from Vigil. Also, Hackett and others state many times that, even with the fleet that's been amassed, conventional victory is impossible. The fleet cannot beat the Reapers without the Crucible. Putting those two pieces of info together would lead to the conclusion, in character, that refuse is not a viable option for stopping the Reapers. Thus, refuse is, in no way, a "win" or happy.

[Plaintiff]

9TailsFox wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Well unlike you and others that seem to think sad endings are cool, some of us play to win.

You did win. Completing the story is winning. Sometimes at the end of the story, the hero dies, but that doesn't detract from your victory in the least.

If what you mean is that you wanted Shepard to win, well he did. Either way, the Reaper threat is ended, which is the entire point. The only option that doesn't immediatly result in the end of the threat is walking away entirely, and even then, Shepard still "wins" because as far as he's concerned, he's making the right choice.

One could make the argument that all the endings of ME3 are actually happy.

Victory on enemy terms in not victory. Shepard lost at the end he stands crushed and have to do what reapers say or else everybody die. You can't win even if all galaxy united reapers just to strong because writers say so. DAO ultimate sacrifice is victory ME3 ending not. Probably our definition of happy is different because after ME3 I felt crushed and confused.

It was made clear from the beginning of the trilogy that the Reapers number in the millions, if not billions. Sovereign absolutely decimated the Citadel all by himself. If you were expecting to take the Reapers down with the magical power of inter-species teamwork, you weren't paying attention.

How on Earth does destroying the Reapers or changing their programming constitute "doing what they say"? The Reapers don't "want" Shepard to take any of those actions. The Reapers are just machines, they are incapable of operating outside the parameters of their original, flawed programming. It is impossible for them to "want" Shepard to take any of the final options presented to him in ME3, because all of those choices exist outside of their conception of reality.

[Plaintiff]

Zarathiel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Well unlike you and others that seem to think sad endings are cool, some of us play to win.

The only option that doesn't immediatly result in the end of the threat is walking away entirely, and even then, Shepard still "wins" because as far as he's concerned, he's making the right choice.

One could make the argument that all the endings of ME3 are actually happy.

You didn't consider the implications of not stopping the Reapers this cycle, did you? Well, I can't really blame you, because the ME3 writing team didn't either. You see, with Refuse, the next cycle likely won't even be able to get the Crucible to the Citadel. This cycle was an anomaly because the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel. Normally, the Reapers come in from dark space through the Citadel, and use the Citadel to control the entire Mass Relay network. What are the odds that a force as supposedly smart as the Reapers would not repair the damage and ensure that their surprise and mobility advantage will be secure next cycle?

Keep in mind that Shepard is completely aware of this information, having learned all of this from Vigil. Also, Hackett and others state many times that, even with the fleet that's been amassed, conventional victory is impossible. The fleet cannot beat the Reapers without the Crucible. Putting those two pieces of info together would lead to the conclusion, in character, that refuse is not a viable option for stopping the Reapers. Thus, refuse is, in no way, a "win" or happy.

I didn't consider the implications because they're irrelevent.

If Shepard is aware of the potential consequences and decides to Refuse anyway, then clearly Refusal is the best choice for that Shepard. Therefore, Refuse is a happy ending.

[Zarathiel]

Plaintiff wrote...

Zarathiel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Well unlike you and others that seem to think sad endings are cool, some of us play to win.

The only option that doesn't immediatly result in the end of the threat is walking away entirely, and even then, Shepard still "wins" because as far as he's concerned, he's making the right choice.

One could make the argument that all the endings of ME3 are actually happy.

You didn't consider the implications of not stopping the Reapers this cycle, did you? Well, I can't really blame you, because the ME3 writing team didn't either. You see, with Refuse, the next cycle likely won't even be able to get the Crucible to the Citadel. This cycle was an anomaly because the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel. Normally, the Reapers come in from dark space through the Citadel, and use the Citadel to control the entire Mass Relay network. What are the odds that a force as supposedly smart as the Reapers would not repair the damage and ensure that their surprise and mobility advantage will be secure next cycle?

Keep in mind that Shepard is completely aware of this information, having learned all of this from Vigil. Also, Hackett and others state many times that, even with the fleet that's been amassed, conventional victory is impossible. The fleet cannot beat the Reapers without the Crucible. Putting those two pieces of info together would lead to the conclusion, in character, that refuse is not a viable option for stopping the Reapers. Thus, refuse is, in no way, a "win" or happy.

I didn't consider the implications because they're irrelevent.

If Shepard is aware of the potential consequences and decides to Refuse anyway, then clearly Refusal is the best choice for that Shepard. Therefore, Refuse is a happy ending.

In-character knowledge about the consequences of a decision is always relevant to said decision. It may be less important to someone than taking a stand, but it's still relevant.

That said, if someone wants to make a Shepard that gives up, gets all the people counting on his victory killed, dooms endless cycles to be harvested by the Reapers, and feels good about it, that's their business. Can't imagine why anyone would want to make that Shepard, but then again, I can't imagine why so many  people like the endings to begin with, either.

You're confusing happy and "win", with "satisfying for the player," though. There's nothing happy about Refuse. Things do not end happily for Shepard in refuse. At least in low-EMS destroy and Synthesis, you could argue it's a happy ending since he/she dies presumably making the galaxy a better place, though those are still not happy in the traditional literary sense. Nothing good comes as a result of the choice to refuse, though. That is fact. How Shepard feels about the choice is irrelevant to whether it results in a factually happy ending.

Modifié par Zarathiel, 11 avril 2013 - 10:04 .

[R0vena]

Twisted Path wrote...

Yeah, someone once described Mask of the Betrayer as Obsidian's appology for the big flaws in Neverwinter Nights 2. Who knows, maybe the next Mass Effect game will be a big appology for (or a correction of,) the problems ME3 had. I'm super skeptical and think it will just be a generic action game.

Well, I always had the impression the expansion was intended from the start. That was one of the reasons I didn't mind the end of NWN 2 at all.
In ME 3 we were told right away that the end of the game is the end of the story (Shepard's, anyway).

From my side, I hope DA 3 endings will be more in the area of MotB than ME 3.

[9TailsFox]

Plaintiff wrote...

9TailsFox wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Well unlike you and others that seem to think sad endings are cool, some of us play to win.

You did win. Completing the story is winning. Sometimes at the end of the story, the hero dies, but that doesn't detract from your victory in the least.

If what you mean is that you wanted Shepard to win, well he did. Either way, the Reaper threat is ended, which is the entire point. The only option that doesn't immediatly result in the end of the threat is walking away entirely, and even then, Shepard still "wins" because as far as he's concerned, he's making the right choice.

One could make the argument that all the endings of ME3 are actually happy.

Victory on enemy terms in not victory. Shepard lost at the end he stands crushed and have to do what reapers say or else everybody die. You can't win even if all galaxy united reapers just to strong because writers say so. DAO ultimate sacrifice is victory ME3 ending not. Probably our definition of happy is different because after ME3 I felt crushed and confused.

It was made clear from the beginning of the trilogy that the Reapers number in the millions, if not billions. Sovereign absolutely decimated the Citadel all by himself. If you were expecting to take the Reapers down with the magical power of inter-species teamwork, you weren't paying attention.

How on Earth does destroying the Reapers or changing their programming constitute "doing what they say"? The Reapers don't "want" Shepard to take any of those actions. The Reapers are just machines, they are incapable of operating outside the parameters of their original, flawed programming. It is impossible for them to "want" Shepard to take any of the final options presented to him in ME3, because all of those choices exist outside of their conception of reality.

Sovereign told what number of reapers will darken the sky, yes it very clear number, no it's not. "Sovereign absolutely decimated the Citadel all by himself" you miss this things called geth. yes I expecting to take Reapers down with the magical power of inter-species teamwork because (ME1 Sovereign undefeatable victory ME2 suicide mission victory or defeat based on your choices) lead me to believe it but in ME3 Someone who claims he is leader of enemy and says, die and you win and expect I will be, yes sure what seems fine. And you entirely miss my point Victory on enemy terms in not victory.

Modifié par 9TailsFox, 11 avril 2013 - 12:08 .

[Ridwan]

Plaintiff wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Well unlike you and others that seem to think sad endings are cool, some of us play to win.

You did win. Completing the story is winning. Sometimes at the end of the story, the hero dies, but that doesn't detract from your victory in the least.

If what you mean is that you wanted Shepard to win, well he did. Either way, the Reaper threat is ended, which is the entire point. The only option that doesn't immediatly result in the end of the threat is walking away entirely, and even then, Shepard still "wins" because as far as he's concerned, he's making the right choice.

One could make the argument that all the endings of ME3 are actually happy.

No, winning is feeling like a boss maybe even get a highscore (though I can live with it that the series don't have 'em). Winning is not being beamed by some retarded genocidal kid and pick any of his offers. And refuse, despite being the morally right thing to do and try to win conventionally, which isn't impossible (when Hackett said, there's no way we can defeat them convetionally, that was at the start of the game with only the Alliance to defend Earth, no could expect Shepard to unite the freaking damn galaxy) so you're just left with choices that's worse than the other.

Did you feel like a boss when your Shepard just stood there while that ****** brat droned on and on, how awesome he is for giving you three colours to pick from? Is that what constitutes playing to win now?

[Conduit0]

You want to know how you avoid having another ME3-esque ending? Don't leak the script. The only reason we got the ending we did is because the script was leaked and they had to make last minute changes. So if you see anything claiming to be DA3's scrip online, kill it with fire and hope to god it doesn't spread.

[9TailsFox]

Conduit0 wrote...

You want to know how you avoid having another ME3-esque ending? Don't leak the script. The only reason we got the ending we did is because the script was leaked and they had to make last minute changes. So if you see anything claiming to be DA3's scrip online, kill it with fire and hope to god it doesn't spread.

About leaked I didn't read it but I heard it was basically same with few changes. And what idiot in his right mind read leaked script and spoil game . And leaked script is not exuse for bad ending. And I don't think script leak is problem they try something great and failed or they didn't have enough time to finish game.

Modifié par 9TailsFox, 11 avril 2013 - 01:30 .

[Adanu]

Lithuasil wrote...

joshko wrote...

What you're talking about are things like Space Children, which is...well I wont get into it.

Here's the thing though - there's no actual controversy regarding the Space Child. (There's just a few people going against the general consensus of "oh god why" for reasons that aren't my place to question).

And with something like DA2 - the game improved on Origins in many ways - (and didn't in some others). There's controversy there, and avoiding that controversy would have made DA2 a significantly worse game.

'Just a few'? Screw you and your marginalizations.

[superg30]

Plaintiff wrote...

And how are they supposed to know if an ending will be controversial or not?

oh they know...

[Plaintiff]

M25105 wrote...
No, winning is feeling like a boss maybe even get a highscore (though I can live with it that the series don't have 'em). Winning is not being beamed by some retarded genocidal kid and pick any of his offers. And refuse, despite being the morally right thing to do and try to win conventionally, which isn't impossible (when Hackett said, there's no way we can defeat them convetionally, that was at the start of the game with only the Alliance to defend Earth, no could expect Shepard to unite the freaking damn galaxy) so you're just left with choices that's worse than the other.

Did you feel like a boss when your Shepard just stood there while that ****** brat droned on and on, how awesome he is for giving you three colours to pick from? Is that what constitutes playing to win now?

When you reach that point the game is already over. It's completely irrelevent to your skills as a player.

I don't play games to indulge in some sort of juvenile power fantasy. I play them because I'm interested in their narratives. I dislike the ending for my own reasons, none of which have anything to do with "feeling like a boss".

If you play a game with a story then you have to accept that sometimes, even when you win, the outcome will not feed your ego.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 avril 2013 - 01:50 .