390 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

congealeddgtllvr wrote...

I think the mages being the villains would be interesting and unexpected. I would prefer this to just another story about overthrowing oppressive authority. That can be a good story too but I feel like I've seen it plenty of times.

By the end of DA2 - I felt the mages were the villians and everything bad everyone had ever said about them was pretty much true.

[Dave of Canada]

They still had redeemable traits, however. We can't have that, those mages need to defect to the Chantry and help us fight their wayward brethren who've been possessed by spirits from beyond. Hell, maybe show Fiona taking the strongest demon inside of herself in hopes of controlling the others.

Perhaps we'll see a Chantry Church turned into a base where the mages experiment implanting demons inside of regular people who seek safe harbor from the mages ravaging the nation, kidnap young children with mage potential to turn them into abominations and develop poisons to wipe out dwarven kind.

Mages must be stopped.

[congealeddgtllvr]

Icinix wrote...

By the end of DA2 - I felt the mages were the villians and everything bad everyone had ever said about them was pretty much true.

Everyone always says this but I never saw it this way.  Terrorists and psycho killers don't need to have magic.  

DA:O was better at this imo.  A kid wished for his father to live and so a whole town was almost obliterated.  In Kirkwall there were like hundreds of thousands of abominations exploding out of the ground and falling from the sky but no one seemed to mind or even notice.  They would just casually walk by while I was fighting them.  

[Icinix]

congealeddgtllvr wrote...

Icinix wrote...

By the end of DA2 - I felt the mages were the villians and everything bad everyone had ever said about them was pretty much true.

Everyone always says this but I never saw it this way.  Terrorists and psycho killers don't need to have magic.  

DA:O was better at this imo.  A kid wished for his father to live and so a whole town was almost obliterated.  In Kirkwall there were like hundreds of thousands of abominations exploding out of the ground and falling from the sky but no one seemed to mind or even notice.  They would just casually walk by while I was fighting them.  

lol - yeah - the um....interactivity of the people in Kirkwall was definitely lacking.

But I found in DA2 I instinctively went with siding with the mages at the end - but was like "What the hell??" and was kind of shocked but how bad the Mages were. I loaded before the choice and sided with the Templars - was a lot more satisfying, helped the mages who were good and was semi moved by some very frightened ones - and ultimately felt like it was the right action to follow.

Wether by design or not, mages definitely were not put in a good light through DA2.

[congealeddgtllvr]

Icinix wrote...
But I found in DA2 I instinctively went with siding with the mages at the end - but was like "What the hell??" and was kind of shocked but how bad the Mages were. I loaded before the choice and sided with the Templars - was a lot more satisfying, helped the mages who were good and was semi moved by some very frightened ones - and ultimately felt like it was the right action to follow.

Yes I agree siding with the Templars and then with Cullen against Meredith was the most interesting ending to DA2 imo.  I would like to see more of this ambiguity in DAIII.  

[the_one_54321]

Please no real world philosophical commentary or implications. Good artists do not always good philosophers make.

[tmp7704]

Filament wrote...

But it is one possible interpretation of Sandal's 'prophecy.' And "fantasy magic" doesn't have quite the same condemnatory ring to it as "space magic."

I feel the concept along with its fallout and all possible permutations of it has been long since run into the ground by X-Men. And the way it --whether intentionally or not-- advocates the only way to get different people go along is to make them all the same... feels as repulsive in the fantasy settings as it's in space one.

[ElitePinecone]

Filament wrote...

Well yeah, feasibility and probability aside, I probably wouldn't be too keen on the idea if it was presented as "the solution" to the mage-templar conflict. I was thinking of it more as an independent event that forced the former factions to reassess their situation.

I suppose it does make marginally more sense in this setting though, given the presence of actual magic. That has to be an improvement over "a new DNA" and circuit boards spawning inside biological cells after a wave of green sparkly light.

(Though I'd agree that as a choice is sounds extraordinarily unlikely - as a twist it could be really interesting, though with implications for the way classes and the story work going forward.)

[Fawx9]

Why does it it have to be a bad thing?

Why can't we see parts that are both good and bad?

[AlienWolf728]

Rojahar wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Why does it it have to be a bad thing?

Why can't we see parts that are both good and bad?

Because people around here think these games exist to preach their exclusive pro this or anti that message. Ironically, the games do a great job of showing what idiots extremists at both ends of an idea can be (Meredith/Orsino/Loghaine/etc), though the extremists around here just see these people as IRL heroes. "You SHOULD blow up buildings if its full of people who don't support your beliefs!"

^ Finally a sane man.

...Also how is this garbage still open? Have the mods quit their jobs/fell asleep? 

Modifié par AlienWolf728, 30 septembre 2012 - 11:56 .

[addiction21]

AlienWolf728 wrote...

^ Finally a sane man.

...Also how is this garbage still open? Have the mods quit their jobs/fell asleep? 

Not fair. There have been others that have shared the same sentiments

Modifié par addiction21, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:03 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Oh please, everyone in Kiriwall was basically a lunatic, not just the mages. But the sheer number of loony blood mages was just stupid in DA2; basically every mage who wanted freedom was a sadistic lunatic, like Grace who went batsh!t and became an abomination for no reason, same with Orsino. That's not good writing Bioware.

[Dave of Canada]

It wasn't stupid, the mages are pure evil incarnate. They're products of the fade, creatures which shouldn't live amongst normal men and should be exterminated so Thedas can find peace and harmony. The temptations of men mean nothing to these mages, they influence with power and dominance.

The Templar may have appeared strict and corrupt, as many of you find that realistic and only the mages were unlawfully portrayed, though I feel the opposite is true. The mages were portrayed too kindly, characters like Bethany being kind and Merrill feeling bad for what she's done? Unrealistic.

Mages have no emotions, they're monsters who deserve nothing else than death or tranquility. The only light which should exist for them is that of the Maker, throw their tranquil shells into dark cells and never see the daylight.

The Maker loves all his children equally except for mages.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:22 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

StElmo wrote...

If DA3 really ramps this up (something I expect is being hinted at with a title called "inquisition") I would be happy to put my money on the table, purely based on principle.

Exposing the flaws, injustices and overall powerplay of institutionalized religion in society is a controversial but highly respectable theme.

I hope DA3 explores the irrationality of and destruction wrought by atheism, particularly institutional atheism, such as is instilled into children in officially atheist nations (such as the old USSR.)   As we know on earth in the past 100 years over 250 million people have been murdered by institutional atheism (via atheists like Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, ect.)  All theistic religions combined for all of recorded history have not wrought such carnage as that wrought by institional atheism.  I'm not sure how detailed the history of the Dragon Age world is about the actions of non-believers, but if it reflects the same history of earth, telling the tale of institutional atheism would be horrific indeed.

I'll be very disappointed if DA3 goes the anti-theist route of bashing theistic religions. In fact it will make me forever forsake Bioware products.

[Vit246]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Oh please, everyone in Kiriwall was basically a lunatic, not just the mages. But the sheer number of loony blood mages was just stupid in DA2; basically every mage who wanted freedom was a sadistic lunatic, like Grace who went batsh!t and became an abomination for no reason, same with Orsino. That's not good writing Bioware.

Some time ago, I'm pretty sure Bioware admitted they went a little too far with mages and portrayed them in a very skewed manner. They did admit turning Orsino into a harvester was only because they wanted a boss fight regardless of conditions and how little sense it made.

Modifié par Vit246, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:32 .

[Ausstig]

I would like the game to deconstruct the idea of a group of 'plucky' resistance fighters.

So the mages as disorganized, full of murders and rapists and radicals who want to create a new Imperium.

Or just avoid the issue all together.

[Dave of Canada]

Ausstig wrote...

I would like the game to deconstruct the idea of a group of 'plucky' resistance fighters.

So the mages as disorganized, full of murders and rapists and radicals who want to create a new Imperium.

Or just avoid the issue all together.

They'll not murder, they can simply use blood magic to procure the men and women into their armies and use them as tools for "pleasure" and their war effort. Monstrous mages.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:40 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Vit246 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Oh please, everyone in Kiriwall was basically a lunatic, not just the mages. But the sheer number of loony blood mages was just stupid in DA2; basically every mage who wanted freedom was a sadistic lunatic, like Grace who went batsh!t and became an abomination for no reason, same with Orsino. That's not good writing Bioware.

Some time ago, I'm pretty sure Bioware admitted they went a little too far with mages and portrayed them in a very skewed manner. They did admit turning Orsino into a harvester was only because they wanted a boss fight regardless of conditions and how little sense it made.

Huh, well at least they admitted they dun goof'd.

[MichaelStuart]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

StElmo wrote...

If DA3 really ramps this up (something I expect is being hinted at with a title called "inquisition") I would be happy to put my money on the table, purely based on principle.

Exposing the flaws, injustices and overall powerplay of institutionalized religion in society is a controversial but highly respectable theme.

I hope DA3 explores the irrationality of and destruction wrought by atheism, particularly institutional atheism, such as is instilled into children in officially atheist nations (such as the old USSR.)   As we know on earth in the past 100 years over 250 million people have been murdered by institutional atheism (via atheists like Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, ect.)  All theistic religions combined for all of recorded history have not wrought such carnage as that wrought by institional atheism.  I'm not sure how detailed the history of the Dragon Age world is about the actions of non-believers, but if it reflects the same history of earth, telling the tale of institutional atheism would be horrific indeed.

I'll be very disappointed if DA3 goes the anti-theist route of bashing theistic religions. In fact it will make me forever forsake Bioware products.

Ignoring your rant that doesn't take in account that the Theists weren't as technology advanced as the Atheists.
Dragon Age has already done this with the Qunari. 

Modifié par MichaelStuart, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:49 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

demonic_cookie wrote...

I don't see what's so controversial about critiquing organized religion. It's not about being atheist or agnostic of hindu or a worshiper of The Great Spaghetti Monster, it's about the simple fact that organized religion was (and is) above all a political power.

No, that is not a fact at all,  much less a "simple" fact.  It is a prejudicial viewpoint that you hold, in my opinion. My church is not about politics, though it certainly is not afraid to address issues that politicians addrress.

Organized religion is people of similar viewpoints about God organizing and meeting together to worship, learn, teach, and carry out vairous ministries to society.

We can critique governments, but we can't critique churches? I call bull. It's not someone out to get the religious folk, it's just history. Not even that ancient a history.

I don't mind any religion being critiqued, and I feel free to critique the irrational "religion" of atheism as well. What I do mind is when anti-theists tell bold-faced lies about religion and try to push their statements off as fact or scientifically supported when they are not. Oh, and atheists never want to acknowledge what atheists have done, eh? Sort of a double standard of condemning some religion because someone who claimed to follow the religion did bad things (which the religion probably taught against doing to begin with) while letting atheists off the hook for things Mao, Pol Pot, ect did.

I think games should steer clear of bashing any religion.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:51 .

[xxLDZxx]

Withidread wrote...

Why do so many people feel there must be a political/religous/whatever statement? Why can't we just have a game that's fun to play?

Because Fun is relative.(every thing
relative)

For some Fun is church bashing, for others since
bashing and others like heads bashing.