343 réponses à ce sujet

[NM_Che56]

Xellith wrote...

DarthKoza wrote...

Maybe Harbringer - wanted to shot people - who running through the device, not at Normandy...

Are you saying that a ship being destroyed wouldnt create a huge explosion and block the path - thus stopping people charging at the beam?

remember shooting pyjaks in me2 on tuchanka?  If an RC car came and whisked the critically injured from the field and other pyjaks were still coming, you'd be dumb to focus on the RC car.

[Isichar]

If the reaper IFF is so effective that it works on reapers that are right infront of you then why doesnt it help against the reapers attacking the Normandy when you enter a reaper occupied star system?

Modifié par Isichar, 29 septembre 2012 - 03:02 .

[Samtheman63]

Master Che wrote...

Xellith wrote...

DarthKoza wrote...

Maybe Harbringer - wanted to shot people - who running through the device, not at Normandy...

Are you saying that a ship being destroyed wouldnt create a huge explosion and block the path - thus stopping people charging at the beam?

remember shooting pyjaks in me2 on tuchanka?  If an RC car came and whisked the critically injured from the field and other pyjaks were still coming, you'd be dumb to focus on the RC car.

you'd be dumb not to shoot a frigate when the one man who has defied your plans for 3 years is standing there right next to it.  with his entire squad.

Modifié par Samtheman63, 29 septembre 2012 - 03:00 .

[Isichar]

Master Che wrote...

Xellith wrote...

DarthKoza wrote...

Maybe Harbringer - wanted to shot people - who running through the device, not at Normandy...

Are you saying that a ship being destroyed wouldnt create a huge explosion and block the path - thus stopping people charging at the beam?

remember shooting pyjaks in me2 on tuchanka?  If an RC car came and whisked the critically injured from the field and other pyjaks were still coming, you'd be dumb to focus on the RC car.

Actually I am pretty sure you would just kill everything that was getting close to the end, instead of yknow just assuming that they are no threat and letting them do whatever they wanted.

[Gervaise]

The Reapers aren't attracted to you when you are simply flying around but they do notice you when you start scanning because it sends out a specific signal that they latch onto and then investigate.

The Normandy pick up was a bit daft. Whilst Shepard's concern for companions is touching, the priority was the beam, so stopping and turning back with the injured companion didn't really fit with the original aim. All they needed to do was have a com message sound saying "So and so is down and the other party member calling for the Normandy to pick up." This would explain how they got back onto the Normandy and also why Harbinger wasn't interest because it was concentrating on Shepard who was still running towards the beam.

This is how I understood what happened with the original ending. I lost sight of my companions when I started the run towards the beam - all I was concentrating on was avoiding being hit and wondering how long a run it would be. Then after being zapped, I understood everyone had been hit. I thought my companions must be dead since they didn't follow me to the beam. However, it seemed that they were knocked out but not killed and the Normandy flew in after I reached the Citadel and picked them up. By that time Harbinger had already flown away. I didn't really need the cut scene to explain it.

[Errationatus]

If you pay attention to the cinematic as the Normandy lifts off, it looks like Harbinger looks right at it.  He lets it go.

Check it out just before the two minute mark.

So, if that's the case, the IFF theory is wrong.

The "best" explanation - IMO - is that the command AI - the "starchild" (stupid name, btw) - wanted Shepard to reach the beam.  It was seeking a new solution, after all.

It's actually hard to say, because it is open to many interpretations simply because the writing of the endings was the weakest of the game.  The ending alone belies the assertion that the game "wasn't rushed".  I think it's impossible to point at one thing and say "this is why", because there isn't any one thing.  There are a couple of ways to look at it, and because the writing is so shallow, all or none of them are right - which just reinforces how poor it is.

The easiest interpretation is that "the minds of the reapers are unfathomable", and it was a simple whim on Harbinger's part.  What does it care?  At this point, the Reapers are in no danger of being stopped.  They're "winning".

In other words, there isn't a "good" explanation.  It's more a "believe what you want" kinda thingy.

[Swan Killer]

Davik Kang wrote...

Xellith wrote...

DarthKoza wrote...

Maybe Harbringer - wanted to shot people - who running through the device, not at Normandy...

Are you saying that a ship being destroyed wouldnt create a huge explosion and block the path - thus stopping people charging at the beam?

I think that the Normandy was called in after a succesful shot, and Shepard and companions are waiting for the Normandy to evacuate them, so a number of soldiers have advanced beyond them at that point.  So I think it makes sense that the Harbinger would prioritise the ground forces closest to the beam.

Not saying that this scene makes total sense, just that blowing up the Normandy isn't the priority at that moment, because the Harbinger has to protect the beam as other Reaper ground forces had been defeated.

Admiral David Anderson:
- "Several Sovereign class Reapers, including Harbinger have broken off Sword. They're headed here."

Soo....where are those Sovereign-class Reapers again? They got tired half-way to Earth and stopped for a burger, let the boss do the dirty work?
 

[Whole Particle]

Don't know why, but that entire scene reminded me of one of those classic Conan O'Brien and Max Weinberg stare-downs.

Anyway OP, those were my first thoguhts as well, that the IFF may have been interfering in some way. Don't know why the whole Normandy had to come down though, were they all out of shuttles?

[Dessalines]

If a ship could break free for evacuation, could they not have used a couple more ships to help get more people to the beam.

[Eterna]

About Scanning planets and the Reapers finding you:

I think a good explanation as to how the Reapers can find you even with the modified IFF is that when the Normandy releases its scan "pulse" it's literally screaming to the galaxy that It's there. When it scans it probably doesn't have the same form of scanning that a Reaper vessel would have which gives it away.

[Eterna]

JakeMacDon wrote...

If you pay attention to the cinematic as the Normandy lifts off, it looks like Harbinger looks right at it.  He lets it go.

Check it out just before the two minute mark.

So, if that's the case, the IFF theory is wrong.

The "best" explanation - IMO - is that the command AI - the "starchild" (stupid name, btw) - wanted Shepard to reach the beam.  It was seeking a new solution, after all.

It's actually hard to say, because it is open to many interpretations simply because the writing of the endings was the weakest of the game.  The ending alone belies the assertion that the game "wasn't rushed".  I think it's impossible to point at one thing and say "this is why", because there isn't any one thing.  There are a couple of ways to look at it, and because the writing is so shallow, all or none of them are right - which just reinforces how poor it is.

The easiest interpretation is that "the minds of the reapers are unfathomable", and it was a simple whim on Harbinger's part.  What does it care?  At this point, the Reapers are in no danger of being stopped.  They're "winning".

In other words, there isn't a "good" explanation.  It's more a "believe what you want" kinda thingy.

You'd have to prove he actually has eyes like organics do. For all you know he's scanning it and it's appearing as Reaper tech which is why it didn't fire.

 

[Rafficus III]

"SERVE US...." This proves IT! Jk. I don't think it will ever be explainable. Your IFF statement makes sense and may be correct, but critics do have their logical argument as well. However, the critics argument hinges on the fact that Reapers sight is just like a human beings and cannot be distorted by the IFF. So yeah.... take that for what it is.

[ShepnTali]

Somebody in the past called it plot convenience. I say, there you have it.

[Maxster_]

-Draikin- wrote...

Here's your answer: the entire scene makes no sense. Bioware took the original scene and tried to think of a way to have their ending make sense with the two squadmates being on the Normandy when it crashed. But the end result is hilariously dumb. I mean moments after we're told there would be no retreat, Shepard freaking stops in the middle of the run towards the beam and calls for an evac. Are you kidding me? The fact that Harbinger just sits there when Shepard bids farewell to his/her squadmates only adds further insult to injury. I seriously laughed when I watched this, since it was the first part of the EC that was supposed to fix this mess and it made even less sense than the original scene.

Really, look at the big picture. The ending is still a nonsensical mess before and after the EC. For every plothole they tried to fix, they opened up even more.

Yeah, entire beam-run is completely retarted before the EC, and even more retarded with the EC(i honestly never thought that feat is achievable, but they managed). When I saw evacuation scene, i just laughed for several minutes.

[Maxster_]

Apollo47Delta wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I think it was because Harbingers main priority was to stop all the other poor bastards from making it to the beam....

^THIS

Entire beam run(as is priority:earth) is a complete nonsense. Especially when beam on and off in cutscenes.

[2112.rush]

Harbringer did not fire on the Normandy for three reasons:

1. Plot Armor = when someone/thing cannot be hurt for plot reasons.
2. Plot Invisibility = when someone/thing cannot be seen for plot reasons.
3. Plot Stupidity = when someone/thing becomes blindingly stupid for plot reasons.

I think that about covers it.

[Mcfly616]

Greylycantrope wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Apollo47Delta wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I think it was because Harbingers main priority was to stop all the other poor bastards from making it to the beam....

^THIS

Yup, 'cause it's not like blowing up the Normandy would cause a hugeass explosion which would kill most of the people trying to make it the beam or anything.

well, I'm not going to speculate on how big of an explosion the Normandy would make or how many people it would kill on the ground. But I'm thinking, while Harbinger probably could have blown up the Normandy and got most of the other people on the ground, he was still prioritizing....why even chance it? Why risk letting even one person through? I don't think Harbinger was going to risk it. The Normandy is as harmless as a fly, up against him. Nothing to worry about. Those troops charging the beam on the other hand, HUUUGE threat.

Ah, remember the Alliance ship getting blown up by the Reaper at the intro? BOOM, big explosion, shock wave?

Selective memory loss.

hate to burst your bubble, but that Ship that gets blown up in Vancouver is many times larger than the Normandy. So much for that Shockwave theory

[babachewie]

Honestly who care? Maybe they got lucky. I wouldnt over think it.

[Bill Casey]

Another watsonian vs. doylist argument...
Yawn, I say...

Yawn...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:51 .

[Mcfly616]

Sion1138 wrote...

When it's blatantly obvious that a writer didn't think things through in the least, you should go and try to rationalize their mistakes yourself.

Right? Is that what we're doing here?

not at all. Just using plain old common sense. No reason to declare every single thing you have a question about, a mistake.

[Bill Casey]

Seriously though, engaging a watsonian explanation with a doylist one is lame...

[RiouHotaru]

The reason is simple. While the Normandy is holding steady, people are STILL trying to reach the beam. Watch the cutscene again. There's no reason for Harbinger to target the Normandy when there are still people trying to reach the beam.

[Fawx9]

RiouHotaru wrote...

The reason is simple. While the Normandy is holding steady, people are STILL trying to reach the beam. Watch the cutscene again. There's no reason for Harbinger to target the Normandy when there are still people trying to reach the beam.

The explosion would kill them...

Also Harby has no idea if they are picking people up or dopping off a hammer/mako squad. Theres no reason for him to risk NOT blowing it up and potential reinforcements.

Also the two guys shooting at nothing? Get your asses to the beam.

The whole scene was just to cover up unexplained teleportation. Because of that the scene itself feels out of place without ignoring major inconsistancies(No retreat, evacing edi doll, etc).

[Necrotron]

Because the Normany landing was retconned into landing to save your teammates to fix a plot hole and not originally scripted for the sceen.

[77boy84]

tivesz wrote...

The only problem here, that Harbinger does have 6 big-ass eyes...there's no way he doesn't see the normandy floating around in the middle of the battlefield.

Those aren't eyes. They're a big smiley face.