343 réponses à ce sujet

[tvman099]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Apollo47Delta wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I think it was because Harbingers main priority was to stop all the other poor bastards from making it to the beam....

^THIS

Yup, 'cause it's not like blowing up the Normandy would cause a hugeass explosion which would kill most of the people trying to make it the beam or anything.

And it's also not like the Normandy is known to be the home of the guy at the top of the Reaper hit list, and it's not like Harbinger had a raging murder-boner for Shepard in the previous game.

Seriously people, stop trying to rationalize it. It was a sloppy attempt to fix a pretty critical oversight, and the only thing it managed to do was elicit derision rather than confusion.

[Maxster_]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

If Normandy is undetectable by the Reapers, why then beam run is ever needed?

Eh, well I'll give it that the Normandy is probably way to large to be transported by the beam, especially if the destination is inside the Citadel.

Sure, just land entire squad right before the beam. Harbringer and his support would not even break from fleet, because that would be too fast.

[Maxster_]

Andy the Black wrote...

I just don't think Harby saw the Normandy as a priority target. He was there to stop things from getting to the beam and was pretty much doing that. There were still a butt load of Makos, Hammerheads, and ground troops doing beam runs. The SR2 was just there for evac. Harby was probably monitoring short range comms and new that the Normandy was not there to drop of fresh troops.

Why open fire on a target with little to no threat priority and risk somone getting to the beam?

Sure thing. Any ship captain would do that evacuation infront of most dangerous ship in existance. And, evacuate only his friends and completely ignore all other wounded soldiers.
I guess that is advanced fleet tactics of 22th century.

Modifié par Maxster_, 29 septembre 2012 - 08:19 .

[Maxster_]

tvman099 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Apollo47Delta wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I think it was because Harbingers main priority was to stop all the other poor bastards from making it to the beam....

^THIS

Yup, 'cause it's not like blowing up the Normandy would cause a hugeass explosion which would kill most of the people trying to make it the beam or anything.

And it's also not like the Normandy is known to be the home of the guy at the top of the Reaper hit list, and it's not like Harbinger had a raging murder-boner for Shepard in the previous game.

Seriously people, stop trying to rationalize it. It was a sloppy attempt to fix a pretty critical oversight, and the only thing it managed to do was elicit derision rather than confusion.

That evacution scene managed to make the beam run even more retarded. That's an achievement.

[Slayer299]

Humakt83 wrote...

There is only one reason Harbinger did not shot Normandy: He wanted Shepard alive.

You realize that all through ME2 Harbinger kept saying how he either wanted Shep alive or just his body...right? So Shep being alive wasn't a priority.,

[someguy1231]

The argument that Harbinger or the Catalyst wanted Shepard alive makes no sense for one simple reason: you spend half of the game fighting Reapers and Reaper minions who want to kill Shepard.

I also don't buy the argument that Harbinger would be trying to stop other people from getting to the beam. We know that Harbinger came to view Shepard as the biggest threat to the Reapers. We also know he was aware of Shepard's presence. Why would he prioritize killing some generic, nameless soldiers over his biggest enemy?

The logical knots people are tying themselves in trying to explain this just shows how poorly written that scene is. Bioware wrote themselves into a corner in the original ending, and their pathetic attempt at explaining it just makes it even more nonsensical. In the end, the reason Harbinger didn't shoot down the Normandy is because The Plot Demanded It. It's the same reason the Reapers attacking Vancouver at the beginning don't shoot down the Normandy, even though it's in plain sight of them.

Modifié par someguy1231, 29 septembre 2012 - 08:21 .

[Fawx9]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

The reason is simple. While the Normandy is holding steady, people are STILL trying to reach the beam. Watch the cutscene again. There's no reason for Harbinger to target the Normandy when there are still people trying to reach the beam.

The explosion would kill them...

Also Harby has no idea if they are picking people up or dopping off a hammer/mako squad. Theres no reason for him to risk NOT blowing it up and potential reinforcements.

Also the two guys shooting at nothing? Get your asses to the beam.

The whole scene was just to cover up unexplained teleportation. Because of that the scene itself feels out of place without ignoring major inconsistancies(No retreat, evacing edi doll, etc).

No it's not a cover-up.  Everyone here is thinking like a human would.  Harbinger is not human.  Therefore, applying human logic to the situation isn't applicible.  Just because YOU would do it, doesn't mean Harbinger would.

You see a transport ship landing in a area that you must not allow anyone to pass.

Do you a) assume that it's not unloading more troops to join the beam run, including potential vehicles
or assume that some idiot has called for an evac during a suicide charge

Tell me how anyone chooses b. Especially when a that is the ship that has given your faction the most problems and that its explosion will most likely kill anyone running.

[Andy the Black]

Maxster_ wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

I just don't think Harby saw the Normandy as a priority target. He was there to stop things from getting to the beam and was pretty much doing that. There were still a butt load of Makos, Hammerheads, and ground troops doing beam runs. The SR2 was just there for evac. Harby was probably monitoring short range comms and new that the Normandy was not there to drop of fresh troops.

Why open fire on a target with little to no threat priority and risk somone getting to the beam?

Sure thing. Any ship captain would do that evacuation infront of most dangerous ship in existance. And, evacuate only his friends and completely ignore all other wounded soldiers.
I guess that is advanced fleet tactics of 22th century.

Shepard's desperate decision to call the Normandy for evac to save his/her friends and/or LI and how smart it was is not the point.

[Ticonderoga117]

Eterna5 wrote...
I know, hence why EDI said she was modifying it to disguise the Normandy as Reaper tech. 

But that makes no sense.

[Maxster_]

Andy the Black wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

I just don't think Harby saw the Normandy as a priority target. He was there to stop things from getting to the beam and was pretty much doing that. There were still a butt load of Makos, Hammerheads, and ground troops doing beam runs. The SR2 was just there for evac. Harby was probably monitoring short range comms and new that the Normandy was not there to drop of fresh troops.

Why open fire on a target with little to no threat priority and risk somone getting to the beam?

Sure thing. Any ship captain would do that evacuation infront of most dangerous ship in existance. And, evacuate only his friends and completely ignore all other wounded soldiers.
I guess that is advanced fleet tactics of 22th century.

Shepard's desperate decision to call the Normandy for evac to save his/her friends and/or LI and how smart it was is not the point.

Yeah, it's complete ooc for Shepard. Included with auto-dialogue.
Especially i like the part, where other wounded soldiers are completely ignored. Also i like the risk calculation : advanced ship with more than 100 crew exchanged for 2 Shepard friends. How exactly such a person could even get to commander rank (and XO on frigate), i just don't know.

[RiouHotaru]

Fawx9 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

The reason is simple. While the Normandy is holding steady, people are STILL trying to reach the beam. Watch the cutscene again. There's no reason for Harbinger to target the Normandy when there are still people trying to reach the beam.

The explosion would kill them...

Also Harby has no idea if they are picking people up or dopping off a hammer/mako squad. Theres no reason for him to risk NOT blowing it up and potential reinforcements.

Also the two guys shooting at nothing? Get your asses to the beam.

The whole scene was just to cover up unexplained teleportation. Because of that the scene itself feels out of place without ignoring major inconsistancies(No retreat, evacing edi doll, etc).

No it's not a cover-up.  Everyone here is thinking like a human would.  Harbinger is not human.  Therefore, applying human logic to the situation isn't applicible.  Just because YOU would do it, doesn't mean Harbinger would.

You see a transport ship landing in a area that you must not allow anyone to pass.

Do you a) assume that it's not unloading more troops to join the beam run, including potential vehicles
or assume that some idiot has called for an evac during a suicide charge

Tell me how anyone chooses b. Especially when a that is the ship that has given your faction the most problems and that its explosion will most likely kill anyone running.

Or C, notice that the ship isn't making any attempt to drop people off, nor is it trying to cover for people trying to approach.  And with more people still trying to make their way through the no-fly zone, ignore the transport until it tries to cross.

[Andy the Black]

Maxster_ wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

I just don't think Harby saw the Normandy as a priority target. He was there to stop things from getting to the beam and was pretty much doing that. There were still a butt load of Makos, Hammerheads, and ground troops doing beam runs. The SR2 was just there for evac. Harby was probably monitoring short range comms and new that the Normandy was not there to drop of fresh troops.

Why open fire on a target with little to no threat priority and risk somone getting to the beam?

Sure thing. Any ship captain would do that evacuation infront of most dangerous ship in existance. And, evacuate only his friends and completely ignore all other wounded soldiers.
I guess that is advanced fleet tactics of 22th century.

Shepard's desperate decision to call the Normandy for evac to save his/her friends and/or LI and how smart it was is not the point.

Yeah, it's complete ooc for Shepard. Included with auto-dialogue.
Especially i like the part, where other wounded soldiers are completely ignored. Also i like the risk calculation : advanced ship with more than 100 crew exchanged for 2 Shepard friends. How exactly such a person could even get to commander rank (and XO on frigate), i just don't know.

I don't know if it's out of character. I mean the point of Shep is that you make his/her character. Maybe it would have been better if we were give the choice of calling the Normady or letting those we bring with us on the beam run bite the big one.

[KENNY4753]

My guess is that since the Geth don't have windows because they are a structural weakness then why should Reapers have eyes. Those 6 yellow dots are just pretty lights so you could see Harbinger at night, they aren't eyes.

[Ticonderoga117]

RiouHotaru wrote...
Or C, notice that the ship isn't making any attempt to drop people off, nor is it trying to cover for people trying to approach.  And with more people still trying to make their way through the no-fly zone, ignore the transport until it tries to cross.

Do you think Harby would take the chance that Normandy -isn't- carrying people before she lands?
The Normandy's bay could've been packed with extra troops and Harby would've then had to deal with more troops.

Then you have to take into account that Harbinger could fire what, two beams at the same time? One beam to kill the Normandy, then one to take care of the closest troops for that 5 second window.

[Samtheman63]

why do they need lights if they cant see?

[AresKeith]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Or C, notice that the ship isn't making any attempt to drop people off, nor is it trying to cover for people trying to approach.  And with more people still trying to make their way through the no-fly zone, ignore the transport until it tries to cross.

Do you think Harby would take the chance that Normandy -isn't- carrying people before she lands?
The Normandy's bay could've been packed with extra troops and Harby would've then had to deal with more troops.

Then you have to take into account that Harbinger could fire what, two beams at the same time? One beam to kill the Normandy, then one to take care of the closest troops for that 5 second window.

he is the first and oldest Reaper after all lol

[KENNY4753]

Samtheman63 wrote...

why do they need lights if they cant see?

so others can see them in the dark.

[Samtheman63]

KENNY4753 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

why do they need lights if they cant see?

so others can see them in the dark.

and why would they want that?

[KENNY4753]

Samtheman63 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

why do they need lights if they cant see?

so others can see them in the dark.

and why would they want that?

because they already know that we can't defeat them without a super weapon so just to let us know that our death is near.

[Samtheman63]

KENNY4753 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

why do they need lights if they cant see?

so others can see them in the dark.

and why would they want that?

because they already know that we can't defeat them without a super weapon so just to let us know that our death is near.

makes sense, cheers

[Maxster_]

Andy the Black wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

I just don't think Harby saw the Normandy as a priority target. He was there to stop things from getting to the beam and was pretty much doing that. There were still a butt load of Makos, Hammerheads, and ground troops doing beam runs. The SR2 was just there for evac. Harby was probably monitoring short range comms and new that the Normandy was not there to drop of fresh troops.

Why open fire on a target with little to no threat priority and risk somone getting to the beam?

Sure thing. Any ship captain would do that evacuation infront of most dangerous ship in existance. And, evacuate only his friends and completely ignore all other wounded soldiers.
I guess that is advanced fleet tactics of 22th century.

Shepard's desperate decision to call the Normandy for evac to save his/her friends and/or LI and how smart it was is not the point.

Yeah, it's complete ooc for Shepard. Included with auto-dialogue.
Especially i like the part, where other wounded soldiers are completely ignored. Also i like the risk calculation : advanced ship with more than 100 crew exchanged for 2 Shepard friends. How exactly such a person could even get to commander rank (and XO on frigate), i just don't know.

I don't know if it's out of character. I mean the point of Shep is that you make his/her character. Maybe it would have been better if we were give the choice of calling the Normady or letting those we bring with us on the beam run bite the big one.

No sane commander would do something like that, especially Shepard. Especially after all that talk about "this is it!". And completely ooc for anyone of shepard squad. No one would abandon Shepard and risking losing Normandy with crew to save their lives.

[KENNY4753]

Samtheman63 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

why do they need lights if they cant see?

so others can see them in the dark.

and why would they want that?

because they already know that we can't defeat them without a super weapon so just to let us know that our death is near.

makes sense, cheers

makes as much sense as the endings IMO.

[Andy the Black]

Maxster_ wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

I just don't think Harby saw the Normandy as a priority target. He was there to stop things from getting to the beam and was pretty much doing that. There were still a butt load of Makos, Hammerheads, and ground troops doing beam runs. The SR2 was just there for evac. Harby was probably monitoring short range comms and new that the Normandy was not there to drop of fresh troops.

Why open fire on a target with little to no threat priority and risk somone getting to the beam?

Sure thing. Any ship captain would do that evacuation infront of most dangerous ship in existance. And, evacuate only his friends and completely ignore all other wounded soldiers.
I guess that is advanced fleet tactics of 22th century.

Shepard's desperate decision to call the Normandy for evac to save his/her friends and/or LI and how smart it was is not the point.

Yeah, it's complete ooc for Shepard. Included with auto-dialogue.
Especially i like the part, where other wounded soldiers are completely ignored. Also i like the risk calculation : advanced ship with more than 100 crew exchanged for 2 Shepard friends. How exactly such a person could even get to commander rank (and XO on frigate), i just don't know.

I don't know if it's out of character. I mean the point of Shep is that you make his/her character. Maybe it would have been better if we were give the choice of calling the Normady or letting those we bring with us on the beam run bite the big one.

No sane commander would do something like that, especially Shepard. Especially after all that talk about "this is it!". And completely ooc for anyone of shepard squad. No one would abandon Shepard and risking losing Normandy with crew to save their lives.

It's not really for you, me, or anyone to say what is and isn't in Shep's character. People can only speak for their own Shep. If we were given the choice there would be some players who would call for the evac and there would be some who would not. And you're right, it may not be the smartest move to risk the Normandy for just two squad mates, but then again Shep can make some pretty risky decisions through out the trilogy. Not going to the aid of the squad trying to defend the bomb on Virmire is a bad call. And the squad follows Shep's orders, if s/he tells them to get the hell out they will get.

[Samtheman63]

KENNY4753 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

why do they need lights if they cant see?

so others can see them in the dark.

and why would they want that?

because they already know that we can't defeat them without a super weapon so just to let us know that our death is near.

makes sense, cheers

makes as much sense as the endings IMO.

indeed

[Demon560]

Well Harbinger is able to see Shepard everytime they meet, unless they see everything as code, I think i would work just like the Stealth drive on the Normandy, only works if they are not looking out a window or directly staring at it, the whole Geth don't have windows thing makes me think even Synthetics can detect the normandy in plain sight, and lets not forget the friendly Ocully who can apparently distinguish between true reapers or just ships using the IFF.

Not to mention that even if it were being displayed as pure reaper code it would be odd for it too come in and do nothing, unless they are dumber then some have suggested. They probably should have just sent the Codiak(misspelled i know), that would have been more ideal, not perfect but way smaller than a huge ship that any synthetics that has visuals through eyes can mistake for a small reaper or an ally.