38 réponses à ce sujet

[Fyurian2]

Killer3000ad wrote...

Fyurian2 wrote...

falloutx wrote...

wow... might as well call it a action game and not a rpg if you take cooldowns away.

So Baldur's Gate wasn't an RPG because it had abilities that had no cooldowns?

The spells had to be memorized beforehand for Wizards, and Sorcerors had a limited amount of spells they could cast a day. That limitation more than balanced out the lack of cooldowns or mana.

Exactly, it had an alternative to cooldowns and mana that meant more strategic and tactical thinking.
The point is, what falloutx said was asinine.

[andar91]

Cooldowns are an interesting topic for me. I liked some of the changes in DA2, but disliked some (only slightly).

I liked, for instance, how Heal was altered so that it had a much longer cooldown but was also much more effective. My only issue with that, however, is that there was only one non-specialized healing spell (not counting Death Syphon), so it felt like making a healer build was a lot more difficult since you only had one standard spell to use. I kind of wish they had kept Heal (the DA2 version), but also given Regeneration or even a Glyph of Regeneration-something to allow you to vary your tactics more.

I think the biggest issue is that, when you consider that you're probably upgrading abilities fairly regularly, you end up with less abilities overall. Combine that with the slightly longer cooldown times, and you just can't use your abilities as much (especially at early levels) and you're reduced to using the auto-attack a lot more than in Origins (at least to my memory).

This is a minor quibble, though. I mostly like the new abilities, although some could be ramped up a bit to account for their cooldowns. For instance, I don't like how Winter's Grasp has a 20s cooldown by default when it doesn't even freeze enemies until its upgrade. Can't it at least have a 40% chance against slowed enemeies or something?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Haha, ITT: People literally cannot comprehend a game designed without cooldowns.

[Quicksilver26]

cooldowns on abilities and spells make sence cooldowns on potions however is just plane stupid and dumn and a waste of time i see no reason why it was made that way it the frist place

[Aulis Vaara]

Nrieh wrote...

The only "strategy" in game I can remember - running "8" around pillars waiting for the lance CD, while dueling Arishok.

To be fair, that fight was horrible for all classes.

That said, I'm all for dropping cooldowns, but instead I'd prefer reasonable casting times on some spells, channelled spells, friendly fire, and a whole bunch of other elements that make you think on what your next best move would be.

Also: a good immunities and vulnerabilities system. The usual problem with this is that many games don't give visual feedback on whether something is very effective or not. Virtually everybody knows the words "It's super effective", but when was the last time you had non-text equivalent. A different impact animation or an enemy visibly staggering (this could even be the supereffective effect, without having to do extra damage) or anything else like that. Just make sure we can notice in some way other than the healthbar going down an extra pixel.

Modifié par Aulis Vaara, 29 septembre 2012 - 04:14 .

[Iosev]

Cooldowns not only encourage players to use a larger variety of spells, but they also force players to make tough decisions, such as deciding between the use of Group Heal on a single ally, using a potion, or using an ability like Barrier until Heal is available again.

The issue with the Arishok duel is that it is reduced to a one-on-one encounter, which is hard to implement because of the gameplay being more party-based in nature.  Specifically, in normal encounters you have access to your entire party's range of abilities, but in the duel you're restricted to only one character's abilities, inevitably forcing you to run around until your cooldowns are refreshed because you don't have any other characters to rely on.

Modifié par arcelonious, 29 septembre 2012 - 04:46 .

[Atakuma]

Unless Bioware makes DA3 turn based or turns it into a hack & slash, cooldowns need to stay. There's obviously room for improvement, but getting rid of them completely would just screw everything up.

Modifié par Atakuma, 29 septembre 2012 - 04:48 .

[frostajulie]

This is easily fixed. Add a new level to combat difficulty called **** (<---in case that word gets asterisked think slang for cat). This new level will have no cooldowns. I for one would use such a level on particularly bad days. Blowing dudeepoops up has got me through many stressful times. GTA San andreas got me through college algebra and Casual mode with God item mods for DAO and DA2 have gotten me through 3 yrs of teaching Kindergarten in a republican dominated state.

[sully.nathan]

They should remove cooldowns. Make spells and talents take more stamina and mana and remove mana and stamina regeneration except if you have a skill or equipment that gives you stamina or mana regeneration.

[tmp7704]

Fyurian2 wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

Fyurian2 wrote...

So Baldur's Gate wasn't an RPG because it had abilities that had no cooldowns?

The spells had to be memorized beforehand for Wizards, and Sorcerors had a limited amount of spells they could cast a day. That limitation more than balanced out the lack of cooldowns or mana.

Exactly, it had an alternative to cooldowns and mana that meant more strategic and tactical thinking.
The point is, what falloutx said was asinine.

That's not "alternative to cooldowns" but effectively cooldowns which lasted entire game day.

If anything, the approach of more modern games with their 10-15 sec cooldowns is a step in direction asked by these who want the cooldowns removed...

[Auintus]

If I could just spam Grave Robber with the One Foot In upgrade, I would be immortal beyond all balance of the game.

[Kyle Kabanya]

Dragon Age Origins, when played on a high difficulty is a tactical game. That is what intrigued me to play it cause I never played a game with that kind of combat. Then DA2 came out and made it button mashing, which was completely lame.

I hate button mashing, it makes the combat in games way to easy. I prefer longer cooldowns, but have the talents or spells stronger for the longer cooldown.

[goofyomnivore]

In both Dragon Age games my experience is you cast your big spells then auto attack for 5-10s then chain your big spells again. I don't see any problem with lowering your spells cooldowns, balancing them appropriately and keeping you doing something instead of just auto attacking and watching your cooldown timer until you become awesome again.

Modifié par strive, 29 septembre 2012 - 05:59 .

[TheJediSaint]

Kyle Kabanya wrote...

Dragon Age Origins, when played on a high difficulty is a tactical game. That is what intrigued me to play it cause I never played a game with that kind of combat. Then DA2 came out and made it button mashing, which was completely lame.

I hate button mashing, it makes the combat in games way to easy. I prefer longer cooldowns, but have the talents or spells stronger for the longer cooldown.

Actually, DA2 was quite tactical on higher difficutlies, with greater emphasis on cross-class combos.   At least with the PC version, I can't speak for the console versions.


Cooldowns are one way to force the player time when to use their best ablities.   Now there are other ways to impose limits on the player that they have to work around, such as having higher damage ablites consume slow regenerating resources.   However, I'm fine with DA's current system of rapid-fire auto attacks with realativly long cooldown ablities.