58 réponses à ce sujet

[Mulsanne Blue]

Whybother wrote...

"I find that people on these forums can be particularly harsh for no good reason, other than personal disappointment"

Senior executives at Bioware are way too busy to read the forums.

They may be too busy to read the forums, but you would have had to have been dead to not see how the unhappiness and negativity spilled on to the internet and other media. Don't get me wrong, not saying people didn't have the right to feel slighted or upset. I just don't like the "me, me, me" aspect. Many more things can be accomplished when people stand together as a whole and make logically thought-out constructive criticisms. That's all I meant.

[Reznore57]

In a few days , we will learn that they did not quit their jobs but were abducted by aliens and the government is trying to hide it..

[Dhiro]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

So they didn't actually interview Ray or Greg, they interviewed someone who *used* to work for Bioware, over 3 years ago, in, quote, "senior positions" who commented that Ray and Greg "seemed" exhausted over fan reactions to games that, I believe, weren't even released in 2009 . . .

YEP SEEMS LEGIT.

Yep yep.

That said, some cookies, happiness and sunshine won't kill the BSN.

[Cultist]

So, BioWare made bad games and it is fans' fault that they can't enjoy bad games?
Good luck with that logic, mate!

[Solmanian]

Why am I not surprised that the people calling these "bull****" are the same people who called ME3 bull****?
Not only I'm not surprised by the article, I said months ago that something like this would happen if the community will keep going the way it did.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

schalafi wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Have they ever wonder why the fans react negatively before ( specifically DA 2 )? When they create their game "passionately" have they ever consult the fans on how the ending, the story and character should be presented? What make them so confidently thinks that bitter endings would work well with the goal they set up for players? I'm not asking for "walking over the sunset" but the entire ME series was about opposing the reapers. So, why ended it with something else in the last 15 minutes? I don't play ME 3 but I've watched the endings so I can understand why people are upset.

Seriously, if you drive your players into specific goals, make sure you close that with proper endings and not deviate into somethings else just for your bitter endings to work. If the mission is about stopping a villain then you better make sure the players accomplish that mission by stopping the said villain and not about painting the sky with one of the three different colors.

This apply to DA series as well.

I wonder if Steve Jobs consulted his buyers and paid attention toany negativity when running Apple.

 Sure buyers have a right to express their disappointment in a product they spent good $'s on, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. Some posters just seem to want to vent their anger no matter what the subject is, and this doesn't help a company improve their product, or encourage the developers to adopt even the good ideas.

 I don't buy Apple products. As far as I concern, for Operating System specifially, Microsoft Windows based platform is still the NO 1 product in the world which Apple's Macintosh never succed to topple for decades. That's alone is enough to tell that you do need to pay attention to buyers even if they sound negative. Most company turn to Customer Service for feedback. Only companies who monopolize certain products like Sony PS  ( I don't buy Sony PS, WII or Microsoft's XBOX  which I deem as monopolized gaming products on their own term ) may sometime be ignorant.  

[Cutlasskiwi]

 Both Ray and Trent have both responed to it on twitter.

Ray
Trent

[Wotannanow]

Never believe second or third hand information -- it is always distorted.
You want the truth why they left -- you have to talk to the guys in person.

[BouncyFrag]

Reznore57 wrote...

In a few days , we will learn that they did not quit their jobs but were abducted by aliens and the government is trying to hide it..

[schalafi]

I don't buy Apple products either,I just used that as an example, but I wouldn't go on the Internet and rant and rave about their products. I just wouldn't buy them.

I don't think it's necessary to publicly damn a product because you didn't like it, if you can get your money back, return it. If you can't, as in the case of games, just don't buy another from that company.

I've been on Bioware's forums for years, and I've seen it go from good game discussions, and mostly helpful suggestions, or questions, to a lot of venting, some of it not really related to the game in question. It's seems just to be escalating into frequent "flame fests", and that's not right.

[Melca36]

schalafi wrote...

http://www.qj.net/pc...an-vitriol.html

I was shocked to read this article saying that the reason for the two top Bioware people leaving wasn't because of EA, but because fan reactions to the last two games, namely TOR and MA3 were so negative.

I've read a lot of negative posts in the years I've been on these forums, but I never realized how much influence they may have. I hope this article is just a bid for attention, not the real reason Greg and Ray left.

Do you believe tabloid news as well?

[Realmzmaster]

People have a right to voice their disappointment with a product, but some of the posters on this forum and others have gone to extremes. Constructive criticism is always good, but unfortunately I have seen a lot of destructive personal criticism about the people involved in making the product and on other posters. Some of that criticism has gone to straight out cyberbullying to calling for the whole team to be fired.
I expect developers to have thick skins, but some posters need to reign in the stupidity. Also do not believe all the speculation on why the good doctors left. Thier reasons are their own and I respect that.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 29 septembre 2012 - 05:34 .

[schalafi]

Melca36 wrote...

schalafi wrote...

http://www.qj.net/pc...an-vitriol.html

I was shocked to read this article saying that the reason for the two top Bioware people leaving wasn't because of EA, but because fan reactions to the last two games, namely TOR and MA3 were so negative.

I've read a lot of negative posts in the years I've been on these forums, but I never realized how much influence they may have. I hope this article is just a bid for attention, not the real reason Greg and Ray left.

Do you believe tabloid news as well?

No, and I don't belong to Twitter or Facebook. I prefer game forums where you can get to know which people are true fans, and which are full of bull****.

[Kyle Kabanya]

Everybody is to blame. The fans reacted extremely negative, but that's cause the developers shipped out a game they thought was either finished, or artistic.

When the developers make a game, they need to stick to the basics. They need to look back at previous games to see problems and correct them. Before DA2 was shipped out, they should have looked at Origins and ME1 and ME2. Biggest problem with ME1, repeat environments and worlds, yet they repeat that mistake in DA2.

For me, the biggest problem with DA2, was all dungeons were the same. My biggest problem with ME3, was the ending. I understand they wanted a bittersweet ending, but don't do a 180 at the end and say here's four choices, everything is meaningless except for synthesis.

Bioware, read this post, this line specifically, STICK TO THE BASICS.

[nightscrawl]

Biotic Sage wrote...

I would definitely take articles like this with a grain of salt. However it would be foolish to think that the amount of vitriol (most of it unwarranted) thrown Bioware's way did not affect these guys on a personal level to some extent, they are people after all with dignity and feelings.

I take it with a grain of salt too. However, I imagine that one can only take so many posts calling for your firing, suggestions that you should have been aborted, and so forth, before finally going "F this s---!" and just leaving.

But hey, if they want to go off and make beer (as I read on some other site) and lament the poor schmucks they are leaving behind who still have to deal with that crap, more power to 'em (I mean this in a nice way.) If they really are going to make beer, I hope they use fun, nerdy references for the names .

[Meltemph]

IF you read the statements that the 2 Dr's gave... It seems pretty apaprent, at least to me, that they were not as into the game industry as the used to be and seemed to have less and less to do with games, otuside of the ones they were making.

For instance you see a lot of developers who, on twitter for instance, who talk about other games they are playing and what not. Where as those 2 almost always had something else they were talking about, unless it was their games.

I think the RA Salvator google talk that he had, where he was talking about fantasy writers who are now "speculative fiction writers", is kinda of the same idea I have with the Dr's.



At the 36 min mark, is what I am talking about.

[DonSwingKing]

Even more painful if you consider thath most of the critic was baseless and stupid.

[Emzamination]

*eye roll* The reasons behind ray and greg's departure is neither my business nor any of yours.I swear you people are like a bunch of gossiping old hens.

[Meltemph]

Emzamination wrote...

*eye roll* The reasons behind ray and greg's departure is neither my business nor any of yours.I swear you people are like a bunch of gossiping old hens.

EA is a publicly traded company, with a lot of consumers and investors who have their eyes on who is in charge.  There is nothing wrong with speculating on the changes of the command structure of a company.  Leaders leaving a company, where you buy products from them is anything but odd/bad to wonder the reasoning.

[Emzamination]

Meltemph wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

*eye roll* The reasons behind ray and greg's departure is neither my business nor any of yours.I swear you people are like a bunch of gossiping old hens.

EA is a publicly traded company, with a lot of consumers and investors who have their eyes on who is in charge.  There is nothing wrong with speculating on the changes of the command structure of a company.  Leaders leaving a company, where you buy products from them is anything but odd/bad to wonder the reasoning.

The personal reasons why these two gentlemen decided to step down is their business and their business alone.They have disclosed to the public the reasons they thought it best to leave and that's enough.Any further speculating is sticking your nose into business that isn't yours.Don't you have anywhere better to stick it?

[Meltemph]

Emzamination wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

*eye roll* The reasons behind ray and greg's departure is neither my business nor any of yours.I swear you people are like a bunch of gossiping old hens.

EA is a publicly traded company, with a lot of consumers and investors who have their eyes on who is in charge.  There is nothing wrong with speculating on the changes of the command structure of a company.  Leaders leaving a company, where you buy products from them is anything but odd/bad to wonder the reasoning.

The personal reasons why these two gentlemen decided to step down is their business and their business alone.They have disclosed to the public the reasons they thought it best to leave and that's enough.Any further speculating is sticking your nose into business that isn't yours.Don't you have anywhere better to stick it?

Umm what? When leaders leave a company the direction a company will go after said leadership leaves is a normal concern, and the personal reasons as to why, would give insighti nto the company.  People want to know what is going one with a company, sure it is nosey, but it isnt a bad thing. 

It isnt like people are wanting to know if leaving the company was because of some family issues or anything.  People are just curious as to the internal reasoning.  ME personally, I dont care because I personally didnt recognize any of their personal development interaction with the games, beyond where they merged with EA.  That doesnt mean that people wondering the reasons as to why they left the company is wrong. 

Someone who is simply interested in the game industry would be curious with the reason as to why they left though.  I dont see nay reason to "white knight" for the Dr's.  It isnt like there are a bunch of people insulting them, personally(at least in this topic).

Modifié par Meltemph, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:20 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

schalafi wrote...

I don't buy Apple products either,I just used that as an example, but I wouldn't go on the Internet and rant and rave about their products. I just wouldn't buy them.

I don't think it's necessary to publicly damn a product because you didn't like it, if you can get your money back, return it. If you can't, as in the case of games, just don't buy another from that company.

I've been on Bioware's forums for years, and I've seen it go from good game discussions, and mostly helpful suggestions, or questions, to a lot of venting, some of it not really related to the game in question. It's seems just to be escalating into frequent "flame fests", and that's not right.

That's precisely what I'm going to do if DA 3 turn out to be yet another disappointing BioWare's product. I already choose not to buy ME 3 and I never post anything in ME's forum even though I don't like Mass Effect 2. So before DA 3 goes out, I think it would best to let BioWare know what kind of product that I'd like to buy before I permenantly become one of the silent majority who stop buying their product.


It's up to them whether they listen or not. I couldn't care less. And yes I'm still angry with DA 2. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:28 .

[Emzamination]

Meltemph wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

*eye roll* The reasons behind ray and greg's departure is neither my business nor any of yours.I swear you people are like a bunch of gossiping old hens.

EA is a publicly traded company, with a lot of consumers and investors who have their eyes on who is in charge.  There is nothing wrong with speculating on the changes of the command structure of a company.  Leaders leaving a company, where you buy products from them is anything but odd/bad to wonder the reasoning.

The personal reasons why these two gentlemen decided to step down is their business and their business alone.They have disclosed to the public the reasons they thought it best to leave and that's enough.Any further speculating is sticking your nose into business that isn't yours.Don't you have anywhere better to stick it?

Umm what? When leaders leave a company the direction a company will go after said leadership leaves is a normal concern, and the personal reasons as to why, would give insighti nto the company.  People want to know what is going one with a company, sure it is nosey, but it isnt a bad thing. 

It isnt like people are wanting to know if leaving the company was because of some family issues or anything.  People are just curious as to the internal reasoning.  ME personally, I dont care because I personally didnt recognize any of their personal development interaction with the games, beyond where they merged with EA.  That doesnt mean that people woundering the reasons as to why they left the company is wrong. 

Someone who is simply interested in the game industry would be curious with the reason as to why they left though.  I dont see nay reason to "white knight" for the Dr's.  It isnt like there are a bunch of people insulting them, personally(at least in this topic).

Your title is consumer-- you purchase Ea products with your earning and that is the extent of your relationship with the company.Unless you are a employee of Ea/bioware -- whatever happens within the corporate aspect of Ea or any other company you purchase from is no business of yours whatsoever no matter how much you enjoy their products.As long as your products haven't depreciated in value due exclusively to these two gentlemen stepping down, keep your nose out of their and Ea's business.

Modifié par Emzamination, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:26 .

[Aolbain]

Dhiro wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

So they didn't actually interview Ray or Greg, they interviewed someone who *used* to work for Bioware, over 3 years ago, in, quote, "senior positions" who commented that Ray and Greg "seemed" exhausted over fan reactions to games that, I believe, weren't even released in 2009 . . .

YEP SEEMS LEGIT.

Yep yep.

That said, some cookies, happiness and sunshine won't kill the BSN.

From what I have seen, yes it would.