252 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

Obadiah wrote...

We got closure by any reasonable definition.

There was no choice discarded. My Sheps ended the Genophage, united the Geth and Quarians, etc. The ramifications of every important choice I can remember making in ME1 and ME2 is expounded upon in ME3, even if it was just a codex entry explaining Conrad Verner's contribution to the war effort.

We got closure. Epilogue captions show most of our surviving squadies after the big choice. In addition, exposition is given on the ME universe stretching thousands of years into the future.

There was certainly no "knife twisted."

The whine just never stops flowing on this forum.

We are of the same opinion

[Ticonderoga117]

Mcfly616 wrote...
bro, thats one book series. I can list countless books and movies that completely turn the plot on its ear at the last minute and end it in a way that the reader/viewer doesn't get every single thing spelled out for them. Where the protagonist is presented with a choice or conflict, and we are left with nothing but our own interpretation of it.

But did they ever leave the main character in a situation where things are up in the air? I have never played or read one that did that.

[Sundance31us]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

We got closure by any reasonable definition.

There was no choice discarded. My Sheps ended the Genophage, united the Geth and Quarians, etc. The ramifications of every important choice I can remember making in ME1 and ME2 is expounded upon in ME3, even if it was just a codex entry explaining Conrad Verner's contribution to the war effort.

We got closure. Epilogue captions show most of our surviving squadies after the big choice. In addition, exposition is given on the ME universe stretching thousands of years into the future.

There was certainly no "knife twisted."

The whine just never stops flowing on this forum.

We are of the same opinion

And here.

[Mcfly616]

legion 21 wrote...

what happens to your squadmates like garrus or liara?

Garrus is retiring and living of the royalties from autographs and the war vids. Liara....well, she wants to have my kids so.....


Lol

[Davik Kang]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
And your "facts" aren't facts. 

Uh oh.  No-one tell fixer7 about this thread pls pls pls

[Cainne Chapel]

Sion1138 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
 yes, while people here try to pretend to know the authors intent and say the scenes are meaningless, its quite obvious they have no concept of the term "symbolism"

Which is odd, because its sort of a big thing in the whole story-telling world.

This was a role-playing game. It was the last in a series of three role-playing games. 

So, here I embodied the character Shepard for three games, quite some time, and in the end, instead of a proper rewarding experience you will symbolically imply that my character is alive. May not be... 

When everything up to this moment was done in a different style, not just in Mass Effect but every other Bioware game I ever played.

I don't understand the merit of this particular decision.

well, whether its an RPG anymore is debatable. But I understand what you're saying. I role-play all my Shepards. and that was the whole point of the breathe scene. To let you know that your Shepard lives on. Only you know how your Shepard would live the rest of his days. Did you want them to take "you" out of "your Shepard", and just show you pictures on how your Shepard lived? Kinda takes the "role-playing" out of it, don't it?

I'm a classic role-player, the AD&D type. And this is the kind of experience Bioware always delivered, always. Until now. 

When you spend a long time building up a character you come to connect with that character. It's kind of a big deal when they are killed.

Now, even though they might not necessarily be dead and you can interpret things yourself, it's not enough. It's not in the spirit of the classic role-playing experience. You want to be truly uplifted. If you did things right, you expect a proper reward.

Now I don't want pictures telling how he lived, just an uplifting and real acknowledgment of the mere fact that he is alive. Just have him stand up out of the rubble, a short in-game cut-scene. That's all.

I'm a long time tabletop Ad&D player myself,

however at no point in the history of gaming have I ever felt as personal a connection to my characters as I do when I actually create that character whole cloth.  Granted I role played shepard but shepard never truly was mine or ours to begin with, sure we could MOLD him in certain ways, but unfortunately for us, the story was always going to go a certain way regardless.  So that does damper a lot of the connection  (In any CRPG that is too).

Now it IS a big deal when the main character dies, and it should be done so sparingly, I however had no problem with the way they handled in in ME2 or ME3 honestly.

and while yes you want to end on a high not, everything doesn't always need to end well for everyone to be a good ending, I was quite happy with the way my shep sacrificed himself for the galaxy and the end result.  That said I do agree a short cutscene cementing his well being (at least at the point) would have gone a long way.

I suspect however they wanted to keep it as ambiguous as possible

[Cainne Chapel]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
bro, thats one book series. I can list countless books and movies that completely turn the plot on its ear at the last minute and end it in a way that the reader/viewer doesn't get every single thing spelled out for them. Where the protagonist is presented with a choice or conflict, and we are left with nothing but our own interpretation of it.

But did they ever leave the main character in a situation where things are up in the air? I have never played or read one that did that.

Books very few, but i've seen many TV shows and movies that did and were actually good.

[Ticonderoga117]

Cainne Chapel wrote...
Books very few, but i've seen many TV shows and movies that did and were actually good.

A few examples please? I'm blanking on them and I want to look further into a few.

[Reorte]

Closure for a character means we can be certain that they've reached a point where they can go on in their future in whatever direction they choose. Note that things can also supply the necessary closure, it can be what we would've liked, and still be very unsatisfying (replace everything in Priority Earth onwards with a few lines saying "Reapers dead or controlled, Shepard alive / dead, crew alive / dead/ marooned / not marooned, <x> number of planets devastated" and you've covered pretty much everything that needs closing without any satisfaction.

[Mcfly616]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
bro, thats one book series. I can list countless books and movies that completely turn the plot on its ear at the last minute and end it in a way that the reader/viewer doesn't get every single thing spelled out for them. Where the protagonist is presented with a choice or conflict, and we are left with nothing but our own interpretation of it.

But did they ever leave the main character in a situation where things are up in the air? I have never played or read one that did that.

they're out there. But off the top of my head: Foundations Edge by Isaac Asimov (I personally believe this is Biowares main inspiration for the ending. I could be wrong though.)


I'll admit, I'm not surprised the ending doesn't appeal to the masses. That's because Bioware took major inspiration from classic Sci Fi. And while there's some popular mainstream sci fi shows/movies.....theyre still catering to the mainstream. Whereas Bioware took inspiration from classics that are mostly forgotten these days.

[Ticonderoga117]

Sion1138 wrote...
You see your own Shepard character walking... But anyway, even if it isn't really Shepard, it's still supposed to have some semblance of who he was in there? 

But it doesn't, it's thoughts do not agree in the least with my own character's rationale of why he chose to control the Reapers. Maybe it wouldn't have been to much to implement at least a few actual choices in that narration. As in, say this, or say that.

And how the hell is it not Shepard? The Catalyst told me "You will control us."

Well it's his memories "uploaded" in there, so I would think it would be kinda like the Matrix and the new entity would picture themselves looking the same.

Plus, the new entity seems to distinguish between Shepard and it as two different entities.

[Mcfly616]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
bro, thats one book series. I can list countless books and movies that completely turn the plot on its ear at the last minute and end it in a way that the reader/viewer doesn't get every single thing spelled out for them. Where the protagonist is presented with a choice or conflict, and we are left with nothing but our own interpretation of it.

But did they ever leave the main character in a situation where things are up in the air? I have never played or read one that did that.

Books very few, but i've seen many TV shows and movies that did and were actually good.

Battlestar Galactica?! Best show ever lol

[Ticonderoga117]

Mcfly616 wrote...
they're out there. But off the top of my head: Foundations Edge by Isaac Asimov (I personally believe this is Biowares main inspiration for the ending. I could be wrong though.)


I'll admit, I'm not surprised the ending doesn't appeal to the masses. That's because Bioware took major inspiration from classic Sci Fi. And while there's some popular mainstream sci fi shows/movies.....theyre still catering to the mainstream. Whereas Bioware took inspiration from classics that are mostly forgotten these days.

Reading a quick summary of that book (so I can be horribly horribly wrong) it doesn't seem as though the main character is left in some state that he could be alive or dead, but only seems worried about his choice. Now that's a good "leave it open" point, but the main character still seems to be alive, definitively.

Is this correct or did I miss something?

[Selene Moonsong]

How about the last scene in Avatar?

Jake's Avatar eyes suddenly open... end of movie.

No different from the gasp of air, which sounds like a gasp for air rather that a dying gasp and gurgling release of air in death.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 29 septembre 2012 - 10:57 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

How about the last scene in Avatar?

Jake's Avatar eyes suddenly open... end of movie.

No different from the gasp of air, which sounds like a gasp for air rather that a dying gasp and gurgling release of air in death.

Jake wasn't dying or badly injured while transferring.
Shepard has been by this time:
-Lasered by Harbinger causing tons of damage.
-Died and brought back by implants.
-Got exploded by the tube.
-Crushed by rubble.

This is not the same.

[Ticonderoga117]

Sion1138 wrote...
If we are, as we are often told, to take the Catalyst's expose literally, then "You will control us." means exactly that.

Either the hologram lied or someone didn't pay attention to what they wrote just months before and subverted it.

Well considering the Catalyst considers melting people into goo and using them to build Reapers as "preserving them", he's a big fat liar.

Go listen to the epilogue by Control Shepard again, either paragon or renegade, the new entity considers them as seperate.

[The Spamming Troll]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

How about the last scene in Avatar?

Jake's Avatar eyes suddenly open... end of movie.

No different from the gasp of air, which sounds like a gasp for air rather that a dying gasp and gurgling release of air in death.

actually james cameron posted on twitter that jakes eyes opened like that becasue the tree was actually electrocuting him and in turn he dies and what your seeing are just spasms or twitchs from jakes left over dead avatars corpes body.

and also pandora burns to the ground, and everyone dies.

twitter cannon, not just for ME3.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 29 septembre 2012 - 11:02 .

[Chardonney]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

How about the last scene in Avatar?

Jake's Avatar eyes suddenly open... end of movie.

No different from the gasp of air, which sounds like a gasp for air rather that a dying gasp and gurgling release of air in death.

Not the same, since there will be Avatar 2 with Jake in it, alive. There will be no ME4 with Shep in it, alive. Jake's story doesn't end, Shep's does.

[Konfined]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

How about the last scene in Avatar?

Jake's Avatar eyes suddenly open... end of movie.

No different from the gasp of air, which sounds like a gasp for air rather that a dying gasp and gurgling release of air in death.

There's going to be sequels to Avatar.

[Mcfly616]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
they're out there. But off the top of my head: Foundations Edge by Isaac Asimov (I personally believe this is Biowares main inspiration for the ending. I could be wrong though.)


I'll admit, I'm not surprised the ending doesn't appeal to the masses. That's because Bioware took major inspiration from classic Sci Fi. And while there's some popular mainstream sci fi shows/movies.....theyre still catering to the mainstream. Whereas Bioware took inspiration from classics that are mostly forgotten these days.

Reading a quick summary of that book (so I can be horribly horribly wrong) it doesn't seem as though the main character is left in some state that he could be alive or dead, but only seems worried about his choice. Now that's a good "leave it open" point, but the main character still seems to be alive, definitively.

Is this correct or did I miss something?

correct. He survives. But the consequences of his choice are left completely up to interpretation....

[Mcfly616]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

How about the last scene in Avatar?

Jake's Avatar eyes suddenly open... end of movie.

No different from the gasp of air, which sounds like a gasp for air rather that a dying gasp and gurgling release of air in death.

Jake wasn't dying or badly injured while transferring.
Shepard has been by this time:
-Lasered by Harbinger causing tons of damage.
-Died and brought back by implants.
-Got exploded by the tube.
-Crushed by rubble.

This is not the same.

as Zaeed so eloquently put it: "a stubborn enough person can survive just about anything. Rage is a hell of an anesthetic"