2177 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow Fox]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Auintus wrote...

It's like the lights of Arlathan in Witch Hunt. The spell to locate them uses blood as a component, not as a fuel. Finn says it's a grey area, though, in my opinion, if blood isn't the source of power, than it's not blood magic.

If Finn was confidant of that explanation, he wouldn't ask The Warden and the others not to reveal that he knows the spell. The developers have already said that the Joining and the phylacteries are blood magic.

Spirit Warriors 

[Arokel]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Arokel wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Cultist wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It caused nothing but pain and suffering so far.
What a great tool indeed.

It caused creation of the biggest human Empire on Thedas.

You mean the biggest pit of misery? The capital of slavery? The most hated empire in history?

Ha...

To be fair most of our information about Tevinter comes from the Chantry's perspective.  The Chantry is not exactly an unbiased source when it comes to the moral status of Tevinter.

I'm not saying ancient Tevinter was all sunshine and goodness but it would have had its good and its bad just like any other society.

I dunno Fenris paints a pretty bleak picture of the place.

He was a slave.  His perspective is probably very different than that of the average citizen.  

[Sibu]

Arokel wrote...


You're a Meredith fan aren't you?  

Yep <3

I like to RP as an ax crazy templar.

[Auintus]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Auintus wrote...

It's like the lights of Arlathan in Witch Hunt. The spell to locate them uses blood as a component, not as a fuel. Finn says it's a grey area, though, in my opinion, if blood isn't the source of power, than it's not blood magic.

If Finn was confidant of that explanation, he wouldn't ask The Warden and the others not to reveal that he knows the spell. The developers have already said that the Joining and the phylacteries are blood magic.

Where?
And Finn was completely confident that "It's definately a grey area." Meaning each person has their own line.

[Ahglock]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Ahglock wrote...
Still pretty much everyone without plot armor goes down the dark side either chaotic evil solos or lawful evil telvanis, but dark side.

Gotta add the PCs of both games to that list too   It seems to take an extraordinary amount of willpower on the part of the blood mage to keep from going completely ape**** and mesing everything up.  It may be a chicken-and-the-egg sort of problem--does blood magic cause people to go nuts, or are only crazy and desperate people drawn to using it?

Well PCs and party NPCs are the majority of the people who have plot armor.  Sure yeah being turned into a borg makes you a mind puppet of the collective unless you have picard plot armor, well pcs are the picards of the RPG world.  

As a side note since this is just a personal take on scenes but whenever people in the game phrase blood magic as just a tool, just another form of magic they always come across as addicts trying to convince you that they don't have a drinking problem, they just have a drink now and then to loosen up.  I kind of assume that was the intent, but enough people seem to take the statements at face value that who knows.  

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ahglock wrote...
Whenever people in the game phrase blood magic as just a tool, just another form of magic they always come across as addicts trying to convince you that they don't have a drinking problem, they just have a drink now and then to loosen up.  I kind of assume that was the intent, but enough people seem to take the statements at face value that who knows.  

Merrill's case is arguably different, especially if you rival her.  On the rivalry friendship or romance, she seems to know what she's doing is wrong, and it's a compulsion you help her to break.  And Jowan in DA:O genuinely regrets using blood magic.  Oddly enough neither character is the sort I'd expect to be able to resist the corruption that blood magic brings, but maybe a certain innocence of spirit helps.

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
I dunno Fenris paints a pretty bleak picture of the place.

None of the information we get about anywhere in Thedas (or anything for that matter) is unbiased.  Even the codex entries are in-universe pieces written by characters with their own biases.  It's part of what makes DA lore so interesting.

That being said, Fenris was on the ass end of Tevinter society.  A "normal" person in Tevinter would probably be able to live an ok life as long as s/he steered clear of politics and the magisters.  The country can't all just be magisters or slaves.

[Morroian]

Auintus wrote...

It's like the lights of Arlathan in Witch Hunt. The spell to locate them uses blood as a component, not as a fuel. Finn says it's a grey area, though, in my opinion, if blood isn't the source of power, than it's not blood magic.

Which reminds me Bioware please bring Finn back, and the elf warrior.

[Urzon]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
The country can't all just be magisters or slaves.

But it's so much easier to paint it as evil that way!

I'd have to agree though. Other than the codexs, the only look into Tevinter culture has all been through either: slaves, slavers, or creepy old magisters. Those people aren't exactly the best way to judge a culture as a whole by. The Qun fall into that category as well. Save for Tallis, the players have only interacted with the Qunari's army, the Arishok's forces and Sten (the new Arishok).

[Cultist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You mean the biggest pit of misery? The capital of slavery? The most hated empire in history?

Tevinter citizens have no problem with it.

[Maria Caliban]

Cultist wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You mean the biggest pit of misery? The capital of slavery? The most hated empire in history?

Tevinter citizens have no problem with it.

We haven't spoken to any non-magister citizens. How would you know what they think of their homeland?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Urzon wrote...
But it's so much easier to paint it as evil that way!

I'd have to agree though. Other than the codexs, the only look into Tevinter culture has all been through either: slaves, slavers, or creepy old magisters. Those people aren't exactly the best way to judge a culture as a whole by. The Qun fall into that category as well. Save for Tallis, the players have only interacted with the Qunari's army, the Arishok's forces and Sten (the new Arishok).

We did get a better idea of qunari life and culture from talking to the Arishok and Tallis.  I was hoping to get the same kind of insight from Fenris, but I suppose that was optimistic.  We did get an interesting take on the situation of slaves in Tevinter from his sister, so I suppose that counts for something.

It seems from Fenris's quest with his sister and from Feynriel's letter that upward mobility within the Imperium boils down to magical talent.  Even race and slave status (or former slave status) doesn't seem to matter if you're gifted and don't ****** anyone off.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 04 octobre 2012 - 07:26 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cultist wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You mean the biggest pit of misery? The capital of slavery? The most hated empire in history?

Tevinter citizens have no problem with it.

I can't recall any slave-based society having problems with slavery really.
I guess that makes rampant slavery O.K....as long as the slavemaster is happy, everything is peachy.

The fact that human life means nothing and that great buildings are built on the toil, blood and sacrifice of millions is I guess irrelevant?

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 04 octobre 2012 - 08:09 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ahglock wrote...
Well PCs and party NPCs are the majority of the people who have plot armor.  Sure yeah being turned into a borg makes you a mind puppet of the collective unless you have picard plot armor, well pcs are the picards of the RPG world. 

Indeed. Just think of how Hawke and his pals can go bathing in Darkspawn blood not once, but twice...and taint is never a problem (unless hte plot specificly sez it is)..

[Alexander1136]

 The thing about blood magic that bothers me is, couldn't anyone be a blood mage? you just need the blood right? or is it just the blood of a mage? if so then why do they need sacrifices of non mages in some instances? If anyone could be a blood mage then why fear mages, instead of blood magic itself? Just thoughts. If you are going to perform blood magic wouldn't it be smart to have say a "spot" to watch you as you dabble and make sure you don't transform. It might even be perfectly safe if they learn how to "spot" correctly.  Couldn't the templars theoretically use all the lyrium they have to send themselves into the fade and just kill all the demons they can "delve into the deep" like the wardens with the darkspawn. 

again just thoughts that bother meB)... more than the romance crap that gets too much attention:whistle:

[Cultist]

Maria Caliban wrote...
We haven't spoken to any non-magister citizens. How would you know what they think of their homeland?

There were mentions of slave uprisings in the lore, but not civil ones. They may happen, but not mentioned, but that's speculations.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I can't recall any slave-based society having problems with slavery really.
I guess that makes rampant slavery O.K....as long as the slavemaster is happy, everything is peachy.

The fact that human life means nothing and that great buildings are built on the toil, blood and sacrifice of millions is I guess irrelevant?

Why should they care for elves who helped to weaken their empire in the past? Also, would you kindly give us a proof that Tevinter citizen's life means nothing, and great buildings are built on the toil, blood and sacrifice?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Alexander1136 wrote...
 The thing about blood magic that bothers me is, couldn't anyone be a blood mage? you just need the blood right?

Not exactly.  You can impart special powers to non-mages via blood magic (Avernus's research on the Wardens, the Reaver ritual, the Architect using Warden blood, etc.) but true blood magic seems to require a mage.

Blood serves as an alternate source of power for the mage's spells, rather than their connection to the Fade or lyrium.  Everyone has blood, but not everyone has the innate magical ability to channel the power of that blood.  And sure, a blood mage can use other people's blood, but that doesn't mean that just anybody can cut themselves, mutter some nonsense, and use blood magic.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 04 octobre 2012 - 11:31 .

[General User]

Arokel wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Arokel wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Cultist wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It caused nothing but pain and suffering so far.
What a great tool indeed.

It caused creation of the biggest human Empire on Thedas.

You mean the biggest pit of misery? The capital of slavery? The most hated empire in history?

Ha...

To be fair most of our information about Tevinter comes from the Chantry's perspective.  The Chantry is not exactly an unbiased source when it comes to the moral status of Tevinter.

I'm not saying ancient Tevinter was all sunshine and goodness but it would have had its good and its bad just like any other society.

I dunno Fenris paints a pretty bleak picture of the place.

He was a slave.  His perspective is probably very different than that of the average citizen.  

Does Tevinter even have "average" citizens.  I mean overwhelmingly the tevinters we've seen or heard of so far have been magisters, mercenaries, slavers, and slaves.  Which one of those constitutes "average"?  I've always gotten the impression that slavery was so pervasive in Tevinter that the "average" person there was a slave.

[Fiacre]

General User wrote...

Does Tevinter even have "average" citizens.  I mean overwhelmingly the tevinters we've seen or heard of so far have been magisters, mercenaries, slavers, and slaves.  Which one of those constitutes "average"?  I've always gotten the impression that slavery was so pervasive in Tevinter that the "average" person there was a slave.

Varania, after Fenris freed her and before becoming Danarius' apprentice, she would have been an average citizen. Hadriana even emphasizes that she's employed and not a slave.

[Urzon]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Alexander1136 wrote...
 The thing about blood magic that bothers me is, couldn't anyone be a blood mage? you just need the blood right?

Not exactly.  You can impart special powers to non-mages via blood magic (Avernus's research on the Wardens, the Reaver ritual, the Architect using Warden blood, etc.) but true blood magic seems to require a mage.

Blood serves as an alternate source of power for the mage's spells, rather than their connection to the Fade or lyrium.  Everyone has blood, but not everyone has the innate magical ability to channel the power of that blood.  And sure, a blood mage can use other people's blood, but that doesn't mean that just anybody can cut themselves, mutter some nonsense, and use blood magic.

I could be wrong, but didn't Allure give Lady Harimann mage powers in their deal? Or at least blood mage powers? If that was true, it could be speculated that while demons can't bring an average person a stronger connection to the Fade, like a mage has; they can give them the ability to use blood to work spells instead, since blood magic doesn't need any connection to the Fade to work.

Which is very disturbing when you think about the implications...

[fchopin]

The blind leading the blind.....

[General User]

Fiacre wrote...

General User wrote...

Does Tevinter even have "average" citizens.  I mean overwhelmingly the tevinters we've seen or heard of so far have been magisters, mercenaries, slavers, and slaves.  Which one of those constitutes "average"?  I've always gotten the impression that slavery was so pervasive in Tevinter that the "average" person there was a slave.

Varania, after Fenris freed her and before becoming Danarius' apprentice, she would have been an average citizen. Hadriana even emphasizes that she's employed and not a slave.

And they were average? 

Look, it's obvious that non-slave tevinters exist.  What I'm saying is that slavery seems to be so pervasive in Tevinter society that it is likely that a plurality, if not an outright majority, of the persons in that county are slaves.

Modifié par General User, 04 octobre 2012 - 12:43 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cultist wrote...+

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I can't recall any slave-based society having problems with slavery really.
I guess that makes rampant slavery O.K....as long as the slavemaster is happy, everything is peachy.

The fact that human life means nothing and that great buildings are built on the toil, blood and sacrifice of millions is I guess irrelevant?

Why should they care for elves who helped to weaken their empire in the past? Also, would you kindly give us a proof that Tevinter citizen's life means nothing, and great buildings are built on the toil, blood and sacrifice?

Kirkwall.
Previously belonging to tevinter, it's entire history and all lore and even it's building paint a pretty celar picture.

[coldSnap]

Urzon wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Alexander1136 wrote...
 The thing about blood magic that bothers me is, couldn't anyone be a blood mage? you just need the blood right?

Not exactly.  You can impart special powers to non-mages via blood magic (Avernus's research on the Wardens, the Reaver ritual, the Architect using Warden blood, etc.) but true blood magic seems to require a mage.

Blood serves as an alternate source of power for the mage's spells, rather than their connection to the Fade or lyrium.  Everyone has blood, but not everyone has the innate magical ability to channel the power of that blood.  And sure, a blood mage can use other people's blood, but that doesn't mean that just anybody can cut themselves, mutter some nonsense, and use blood magic.

I could be wrong, but didn't Allure give Lady Harimann mage powers in their deal? Or at least blood mage powers? If that was true, it could be speculated that while demons can't bring an average person a stronger connection to the Fade, like a mage has; they can give them the ability to use blood to work spells instead, since blood magic doesn't need any connection to the Fade to work.

Which is very disturbing when you think about the implications...

Actually, IIRC Lady Harimann was already a mage. In fact she was the first mage in her family line (or at least there hadn't been mages in her family for a long time). Because of that she was feeling pretty high and mighty and thought she was strong enough to get what she wanted from a demon without personal consequence (dsicounting her family since it seems she doesnt even care about them). So the demon may have taught her blood magic, but she was already a mage.

[LobselVith8]

Auintus wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

If Finn was confidant of that explanation, he wouldn't ask The Warden and the others not to reveal that he knows the spell. The developers have already said that the Joining and the phylacteries are blood magic.

Where?
And Finn was completely confident that "It's definately a grey area." Meaning each person has their own line.

He was pretty confidant in asking The Warden, Ariane, and the Mabari not to tell anyone he knew the spell, I'll give you that.

[Medhia Nox]

The Joining and the Phylacteries being blood magic doesn't make blood magic good.

The CDC creates and studies the most deadly and virulent plagues known to man - they MAKE them in little dishes and study and test them.

To trained individuals - who are watched and controlled by the government - in controlled conditions which highly restricted and in no way "free" - highly virulent diseases are okay.

So it is with blood magic.

===

Though I will say it's the worst story telling device in Dragon Age - and I hope one day Bioware designs a way for it to be utterly removed from the story.