2177 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

franciscoamell wrote...

nightscrawl, do you really think thay'd scrap the most useful of all specializations?

Well no... but I just didn't want people taking Mike's statement and focusing on those two specs specifically when, from his tone in the actual video, it seemed he was using them as examples when talking about the spec system as a whole.

In other words, I don't want people to quote that if those specs are not in DA3 and say "Look at this, Mike lied to us!"

[nightscrawl]

franciscoamell wrote...

I know that, I meant that I love playing as a character who is both. But having only one and that one actually making a difference in the story makes me happier.

In DA2 if you are a spirit healer, Merrill asks if you can bring Pol back after you fight the Varterral. That is one of the few spec references in the whole game. I'm hoping we see more of those, in addition to some meaningful ones, perhaps an actual quest based on your spec or something like that.

[ChaplainTappman]

 I don't see that Blood Mage and Spirit Healer are necessarily oppositional. There's no real distinction between "demons" and "spirits," those are effectively just Chantry-created terms. Merrill talks about the Dalish not believing in a distinction, that there are just spirits and none of them can be fully trusted. And consider that Justice, a "good" spirit, transforms into the demon Vengeance. If anything, I'd argue Spirit Healers are more at risk of possession than Blood Mages, since their specialization requires them to trust their patron spirit. A Blood Mage doesn't have to trust the spirit s/he deals with, just use them.

OT, I think it'd be cool to have your choice of specs affect your gameplay, but a lot of it depends on how the story of the game plays out. I mean, I feel like you can't have NPCs reacting negatively to you using magic (remember, the game takes place during the Mage-Templar War- the already-suspicious-of-magic people of Thedas are unlikely to have a kind opinion of any mage) because then you're effectively punishing players for playing a mage.

An aside: as silly as it has been throwing fireballs around as an apostate and then having templars ignore that fact conveniently, my opinion is that that was done mostly for convenience's sake. Just like I don't think that the Denerim marketplace really is just one tent and a half dozen vendors, I don't believe the mages in my party (talking specifically about DA2 here, since as a Warden you have a degree of immunity) are actually using this high-visibility magic in public space. They're fighting in other ways, or using magic that's more surreptitious. /tangent

What's more, so far we've only discussed mages. What about warriors and rogues? I mean, I can see NPCs treating templars differently (with respect or digust, depending on their stance), and having a blanket distrust of rogues. But one guy swinging a sword looks awfully similar to another guy swinging a sword. I feel like it'd be hard to justify altering a NPC's reaction to the PC based on non-mage specs.

With that said, if we're talking about how companions and other knowledgable NPCs react to and converse with you, **** yes, I'm on board. I'd love to have to justify using blood magic to another mage or a templar, or have a harder time gaining someone's approval because I'm a rogue.

[Cultist]

It's good to hear they are making specs more important and making only one available at a time. But I hope there will be more events that'll be challenging and make us feel like a Blood Mage - hunted and under constnt threat of being discovered.

[Shadow Fox]

Auintus wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I was told blood magic wasn't evil or bad or whatever. If that's true, then there's no need for consequence.

Just because something isn't bad doesn't mean some people won't react as though it is.

You two do  remember Blood Magic first came from demons right?

[holdenagincourt]

Auintus wrote...

the devs said they would try and have classes and specs recognized in DA3.
Though I'll have to disagree in that one should be more vulnerable to demons. If one's careful about it, there should be little cause for concern. The problem is when you trust them, or think yourself better.
However, yes. bounty hunters should be hounding you all over creation, non-practitioners should be very reluctant to trust you, but it should not be game-breaking. I play as a good blood mage and would like to be able to prove myself. Some would attack me on sight, but others should be more open.

Do we have any example in any of the games or other media of a blood mage who wasn't either being manipulated by demons or a full-blown abomination? I'm not being belligerent, it's an honest question and I haven't read all the books, comics and whatnot.

I racked my brain and brought up Zathrian, Uldred, Avernus, Merrill, Orsino, Quentin, Tarohne, the cabal of blood mages who backed Uldred's insurrection in Broken Circle, the crazy hermit in the Dalish recruitment quest, and the rest of the random crazies that seem to be everywhere in Kirkwall. This is not a very illustrious crowd.

I mean, I suppose you could make an argument for Jowan, but I still think he's culpable for Connor's summoning of the demon. And his future isn't bright no matter how you handle Redcliffe, as far as I'm aware....

I've taken blood magic specializations before, but I've always headcanoned it as my character not actually using blood magic, but using spells that resemble blood magic, just because it makes more sense to me to separate gameplay from the story (I mean, you can make Wynne a blood mage ). I'm all for a more complex and nuanced understanding of what blood magic really entails, but it seems that this is one aspect of the DA universe that is almost universally born out by Chantry teachings and the testimony of, well, almost everyone you meet.

Modifié par holdenagincourt, 29 septembre 2012 - 11:19 .

[sunnydxmen]

It does come at a price da2 showed it turns all mages who use it enventually to go insane an be evil.

[holdenagincourt]

franciscoamell wrote...

sunnydxmen wrote...

It does come at a price da2 showed it turns all mages who use it enventually to go insane an be evil.

Merrill turns out fine.

Well...at the cost of Marethari sacrificing her own life to prevent Merrill from being possessed by a pride demon, and of her clan ostracizing her to the point of killing her on sight if she returns.

But yeah, she didn't become an abomination.

Yet.

[Vandicus]

holdenagincourt wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

sunnydxmen wrote...

It does come at a price da2 showed it turns all mages who use it enventually to go insane an be evil.

Merrill turns out fine.

Well...at the cost of Marethari sacrificing her own life to prevent Merrill from being possessed by a pride demon, and of her clan ostracizing her to the point of killing her on sight if she returns.

But yeah, she didn't become an abomination.

Yet.

A better point would be that Hawke/Warden turns out fine. The NPCs seem to as a rule suffer this price, but the PC doesn't.

[holdenagincourt]

Lathrim wrote...

Agreed. Besides, BioWare totally overdid the whole "mages are evil, especially blood mages" thing in DA2. 95% of the magic users we've seen are utterly insane.

The characterization of blood mages in DA:O was hardly better.

[sunnydxmen]

The corruption of blood magic is a slow porcess. the more use it the more corrupt and more likely to go insane an be evil you become, so merrill could still turn evil if she keep using it.

[whogotsalami]

I think I'd be a great idea especially if they'd add stages, places where demons could attack and try to possess you (only in this spec). After defeating them a few notes in a codex could be made about the nature of blood magic, harnessing it etc.

[septembervirgin]

There is really no long term way to defend oneself from the depredations of demons once one begins using blood magic. Take a look at every blood mage NPC in the game: they're on their merry little way to being possessed by a demon. It's one of the nicer things in the game because in real life when you're possessing someone, it's easier to do when they actually call on you.

Of course, there's no Ritual of Andralla or what have you in real life. But there are lawsuits. Be careful of lawsuits.

[Auintus]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Auintus wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I was told blood magic wasn't evil or bad or whatever. If that's true, then there's no need for consequence.

Just because something isn't bad doesn't mean some people won't react as though it is.

You two do  remember Blood Magic first came from demons right?

Actually, if I remember right, it originally came from Dumat.

[sunnydxmen]

franciscoamell wrote...

sunnydxmen wrote...

The corruption of blood magic is a slow porcess. the more use it the more corrupt and more likely to go insane an be evil you become, so merrill could still turn evil if she keep using it.

Evil is a matter of perspective. I think that what makes characters like Loghain and the Arishok so interesting is that they aren't full evil. They have their perspectives and reasons, you can even agree with them to some extent. Even the Reapers weren't completelly evil. 
I don't think Merrill would ever become evil. She could be possessed by an "evil" demon, but she only became a blood mage because of her people in the first place. 

Her intentions were good but she would not be the first to fall to the darkside who had good intentions, blood magic changes you warps your mind makes do things you never would have done before, That's the price it consumes your very being turning into deranged lunatic.

[Vit246]

sunnydxmen wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

sunnydxmen wrote...

The corruption of blood magic is a slow porcess. the more use it the more corrupt and more likely to go insane an be evil you become, so merrill could still turn evil if she keep using it.

Evil is a matter of perspective. I think that what makes characters like Loghain and the Arishok so interesting is that they aren't full evil. They have their perspectives and reasons, you can even agree with them to some extent. Even the Reapers weren't completelly evil. 
I don't think Merrill would ever become evil. She could be possessed by an "evil" demon, but she only became a blood mage because of her people in the first place. 

Her intentions were good but she would not be the first to fall to the darkside who had good intentions, blood magic changes you warps your mind makes do things you never would have done before, That's the price it consumes your very being turning into deranged lunatic.

That's utterly ridiculous. Blood Magic is not the freaking Dark Side of the Force. The mage is in complete control of himself. Its the lack of training and discipline that most non-Tevinter mages have with blood magic. The insane evil blood mages were already insane evil to begin with.

[KiwiQuiche]

There is nothing 'evil' about blood magic. You are just using your own lifesource as power, rather than mana.

Or I did; I never used blood sacrifice as my blood mage. It's stupid Chantry propagandar that makes BLOOD MAGIK TEH EVULZ so it's viewed as such by everyone. But in DA2 every mage barring a few were lunatics. :|

I'm with Merril on the demon things; they are just other spirits with different personalities. Heck, we saw how quickly Justice went to batsh!t Vengence.