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[The Hierophant]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

I said some Wardens as Wardens are people with vastly different morals even Sophia Dryden had her limits despite leting Avernus tear the veil wide open,No he tells you that the Wardens only sent him because they don't want to spark a war with Ferelden by sending an army because it would make dealing with the blight harder.

The Wardens panic and pretty much storm the Deep Roads to kill him when they hear you let the Architect live despite it signifigantly decreasing the chances of another blight and in 2 they're still uneasy about it.

The problem i see with the Architect's plan is that they will have to bleed an untold amount of Grey Wardens dry just to make non song hearing sentient darkspawn who still carry a plague that is potent enough to warp inanimate objects.

Yet the Wardens as a whole have no issue with conscripting anyone into dying a slow painful death*if they're lucky that is* or Avernus torturing people in the name of research.

And I'm going by the epilouge killing the Architect significally increases the liklihood of a blight wheras sparing him does the opposite.

The Wardens need soldiers to combat the darkspawn plague until it's completely eradicated, and without them the humans, dwarves, and elves of Thedas would be extinct. The Archtect was the catalyst for the Fifth Blight as he was the one that tainted Urthmiel, and him potentially conducting another experiment on the surviving Old Gods is not good.

True all I'm saying is if the Wardens don't want to take the risk of trusting a darkspawn why would they approve of someone trusting a demon to gain power?

I believe the Grey Wardens view a demon's destructive capacity as less than the darkspawn's, and blood magic is probably an invalueble war asset with it's pros outweighing the cons by their logic. To them demons have the potential to wipe out a village before being dispatched, while the darkspawn could potentially life wipe a continent before being destroyed.

In a nutshell the Wardens probalby view demons as a lesser threat, and the benifits of BM outweigh the risks like possession.

[marshalleck]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@marshalleck: It isn't. There's no reason to believe you NEED Blood Magic to defeat the Dark Spawn.

Non-Mages have historically beaten one (an Archdemon) - so you need only look to the stories history to know that it isn't "required".

In fact - personal power, while not an invalid argument, is more meta-gaming to me since you have to meta-game to know you're the only chance Ferelden has to defeating the Dark Spawn.

Technically Alistair can do it too - why not spend all your time encouraging HIM to be powerful? The answer is simple - the game is about you.

The strength to defeat the Dark Spawn comes from your alliances - not your personal power.

The choice of "Blood Magic" is simply for the Grimdarks who get a rise out of the edgy powers - and to get it, you need to do craven things like deal with a murderous she-**** from the Fade.

While non-mages may have beaten Archdemons in ages past, the only PC who is going to have an option with blood magic is going to be a mage. A mage who is, presumably, not a skilled warrior since they've spent most of their adult life in the Circle Tower. So reliance on physical prowess seems more like a death wish, to me. Learning blood magic is certainly a valid decision, because it gives the mage one more option in their toolkit while facing an uncertain future. Bad things could happen as a result of letting the demon go, but worse things are guaranteed to happen if the Blight isn't stopped. At this point in the game there really is no hint that help will come from anywhere else; it's you and Alistair and the *hope* that you'll be able to muster up an army.

And you can encourage Alistair to be powerful. Obviously you can't teach him blood magic since he's not a mage, but you can go through the various dialogue options to harden him with the intention of preparing him for what's certain to be a physically and emotionally punishing ordeal in the days ahead. 

I get that you want to handwave it as merely grimdark for masochists, but your obvious desire to claim moral superiority isn't any more palatable.

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:07 .

[Shadow Fox]

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

I said some Wardens as Wardens are people with vastly different morals even Sophia Dryden had her limits despite leting Avernus tear the veil wide open,No he tells you that the Wardens only sent him because they don't want to spark a war with Ferelden by sending an army because it would make dealing with the blight harder.

The Wardens panic and pretty much storm the Deep Roads to kill him when they hear you let the Architect live despite it signifigantly decreasing the chances of another blight and in 2 they're still uneasy about it.

The problem i see with the Architect's plan is that they will have to bleed an untold amount of Grey Wardens dry just to make non song hearing sentient darkspawn who still carry a plague that is potent enough to warp inanimate objects.

Yet the Wardens as a whole have no issue with conscripting anyone into dying a slow painful death*if they're lucky that is* or Avernus torturing people in the name of research.

And I'm going by the epilouge killing the Architect significally increases the liklihood of a blight wheras sparing him does the opposite.

The Wardens need soldiers to combat the darkspawn plague until it's completely eradicated, and without them the humans, dwarves, and elves of Thedas would be extinct. The Archtect was the catalyst for the Fifth Blight as he was the one that tainted Urthmiel, and him potentially conducting another experiment on the surviving Old Gods is not good.

True all I'm saying is if the Wardens don't want to take the risk of trusting a darkspawn why would they approve of someone trusting a demon to gain power?

I believe the Grey Wardens view a demon's destructive capacity as less than the darkspawn's, and blood magic is probably an invalueble war asset with it's pros outweighing the cons by their logic. To them demons have the potential to wipe out a village before being dispatched, while the darkspawn could potentially life wipe a continent before being destroyed.

In a nutshell the Wardens probalby view demons as a lesser threat, and the benifits of BM outweigh the risks like possession.

but if a demon mage causes havoc in a village doesn't that make dealing with a blight harder? or the risk of a warden mage turning into a monster or getting possessesed?

i just don't see how a potenial benefit outweighs the risk.

[marshalleck]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

but if a demon mage causes havoc in a village doesn't that make dealing with a blight harder? or the risk of a warden mage turning into a monster or getting possessesed?

i just don't see how a potenial benefit outweighs the risk.

Which actually begs the question of what's undoubtedly the most unreasonable and reckless risk when dealing with Connor and the demon--leaving the situation just as it is for days on end to go seek help from the Circle. 

Of course, in true Bioware fashion of always rewarding the lawful good paragons, this most absurd action is rewarded with the best possible outcome. GG.

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:15 .

[Shadow Fox]

marshalleck wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

but if a demon mage causes havoc in a village doesn't that make dealing with a blight harder? or the risk of a warden mage turning into a monster or getting possessesed?

i just don't see how a potenial benefit outweighs the risk.

Which actually begs the question of what's undoubtedly the most unreasonable and reckless risk when dealing with Connor and the demon--leaving the situation just as it is for days on end to go seek help from the Circle. 

Especially if you haven't already saved the Circle that's why I hate that choice  nothing bad happens when you go to save connor  plus how it's kind of made out to be the "bad" choice and Alistair the Templar:pinched: makes you out to be a child murderer if you do it despite the fact that he of all people should know the risks.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

marshalleck wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

but if a demon mage causes havoc in a village doesn't that make dealing with a blight harder? or the risk of a warden mage turning into a monster or getting possessesed?

i just don't see how a potenial benefit outweighs the risk.

Which actually begs the question of what's undoubtedly the most unreasonable and reckless risk when dealing with Connor and the demon--leaving the situation just as it is for days on end to go seek help from the Circle. 

Of course, in true Bioware fashion of always rewarding the lawful good paragons, this most absurd action is rewarded with the best possible outcome. GG.

The player should at least have been allowed to leave most of the party behind in case the demon tries something while the char is gone.

[The Hierophant]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

I said some Wardens as Wardens are people with vastly different morals even Sophia Dryden had her limits despite leting Avernus tear the veil wide open,No he tells you that the Wardens only sent him because they don't want to spark a war with Ferelden by sending an army because it would make dealing with the blight harder.

The Wardens panic and pretty much storm the Deep Roads to kill him when they hear you let the Architect live despite it signifigantly decreasing the chances of another blight and in 2 they're still uneasy about it.

The problem i see with the Architect's plan is that they will have to bleed an untold amount of Grey Wardens dry just to make non song hearing sentient darkspawn who still carry a plague that is potent enough to warp inanimate objects.

Yet the Wardens as a whole have no issue with conscripting anyone into dying a slow painful death*if they're lucky that is* or Avernus torturing people in the name of research.

And I'm going by the epilouge killing the Architect significally increases the liklihood of a blight wheras sparing him does the opposite.

The Wardens need soldiers to combat the darkspawn plague until it's completely eradicated, and without them the humans, dwarves, and elves of Thedas would be extinct. The Archtect was the catalyst for the Fifth Blight as he was the one that tainted Urthmiel, and him potentially conducting another experiment on the surviving Old Gods is not good.

True all I'm saying is if the Wardens don't want to take the risk of trusting a darkspawn why would they approve of someone trusting a demon to gain power?

I believe the Grey Wardens view a demon's destructive capacity as less than the darkspawn's, and blood magic is probably an invalueble war asset with it's pros outweighing the cons by their logic. To them demons have the potential to wipe out a village before being dispatched, while the darkspawn could potentially life wipe a continent before being destroyed.

In a nutshell the Wardens probalby view demons as a lesser threat, and the benifits of BM outweigh the risks like possession.

but if a demon mage causes havoc in a village doesn't that make dealing with a blight harder? or the risk of a warden mage turning into a monster or getting possessesed?

i just don't see how a potenial benefit outweighs the risk.

Not really because it's the Templars job, and if the abomination happened to be one of their own then they'll most likely try to kill it before the death toll skyrockets. Plus it's implied in Avernus's research that the taint affects demons in a negative way. I don't like blood magic but the power boost it gives is big, like how Jowan an apprentice level mage clowned a First Enchanter, and Templar Commander in one move.

[Shadow Fox]

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

I said some Wardens as Wardens are people with vastly different morals even Sophia Dryden had her limits despite leting Avernus tear the veil wide open,No he tells you that the Wardens only sent him because they don't want to spark a war with Ferelden by sending an army because it would make dealing with the blight harder.

The Wardens panic and pretty much storm the Deep Roads to kill him when they hear you let the Architect live despite it signifigantly decreasing the chances of another blight and in 2 they're still uneasy about it.

The problem i see with the Architect's plan is that they will have to bleed an untold amount of Grey Wardens dry just to make non song hearing sentient darkspawn who still carry a plague that is potent enough to warp inanimate objects.

Yet the Wardens as a whole have no issue with conscripting anyone into dying a slow painful death*if they're lucky that is* or Avernus torturing people in the name of research.

And I'm going by the epilouge killing the Architect significally increases the liklihood of a blight wheras sparing him does the opposite.

The Wardens need soldiers to combat the darkspawn plague until it's completely eradicated, and without them the humans, dwarves, and elves of Thedas would be extinct. The Archtect was the catalyst for the Fifth Blight as he was the one that tainted Urthmiel, and him potentially conducting another experiment on the surviving Old Gods is not good.

True all I'm saying is if the Wardens don't want to take the risk of trusting a darkspawn why would they approve of someone trusting a demon to gain power?

I believe the Grey Wardens view a demon's destructive capacity as less than the darkspawn's, and blood magic is probably an invalueble war asset with it's pros outweighing the cons by their logic. To them demons have the potential to wipe out a village before being dispatched, while the darkspawn could potentially life wipe a continent before being destroyed.

In a nutshell the Wardens probalby view demons as a lesser threat, and the benifits of BM outweigh the risks like possession.

but if a demon mage causes havoc in a village doesn't that make dealing with a blight harder? or the risk of a warden mage turning into a monster or getting possessesed?

i just don't see how a potenial benefit outweighs the risk.

Not really because it's the Templars job, and if the abomination happened to be one of their own then they'll most likely try to kill it before the death toll skyrockets. Plus it's implied in Avernus's research that the taint affects demons in a negative way. I don't like blood magic but the power boost it gives is big, like how Jowan an apprentice level mage clowned a First Enchanter, and Templar Commander in one move.

I do have to wonder why the Reverded Mother didn't send a call to the Templars for help.

[BlueMagitek]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Which means what, exactly?

You mean Morrigan can try to persuade The Warden to take a particular course of action, based on her opinion of certain situations?

Which doesn't change the fact that Flemeth wasn't the one who was gathering allies, resolving disputes, and dealing with the civil war - it was The Warden and his assembled crew.

Blood mages call them demons too, not just the chantry.

Well, I was more referring to the OBG and murdering Flemeth as her manipulation.  Yes, Morrigan, I'm sure that the book, which only you can read, says she's going to kill you.  

Flemeth is the reason that the Warden could do all that.  She's the savior of Ferelden and I won't have you slandering her name.

[BlueMagitek]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
I do have to wonder why the Reverded Mother didn't send a call to the Templars for help.

If I remember correctly, most of the Knights were already off chasing the Ashes, so anyone skilled enough to survive the zombies (who would kill anyone who left) was probably already dead or not available. 

[KainD]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Flemeth is the reason that the Warden could do all that.  She's the savior of Ferelden and I won't have you slandering her name.

I just hate it when people hold out on me. Morrigan did that too, but she told my warden more, and in the end everything. 

But Flemeth didn't answer any questions, just asked me to act or leave. I do not like people that do not take time to make others understand them. 

That is why I hated Jowan, because he didn't tell me as a friend that he was a blood mage. I would still help him, just the fact that he lied pissed me off.

The same with Anders. I wish he would tell me that he would blow up the chantry, I would still help him, but he didn't explain his plans to me, which also pissed me off.

Flemeth didn't tell me what was going on, Morrigan told me more, and was my friend, so the choice favors Morrigan. 

Edit: It's actually pretty sad. I wish bioware would make a friend/LI companion that would be totally honest and trusting of PC. 

Modifié par KainD, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:46 .

[The Hierophant]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote... 
I do have to wonder why the Revered Mother didn't send a call to the Templars for help.

Is it about the darkspawn? If so i doubt they would be enough to fight the horde that decimated the army at Ostagar.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:48 .

[Shadow Fox]

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote... 
I do have to wonder why the Revered Mother didn't send a call to the Templars for help.

Is it about the darkspawn? If so i doubt they would be enough to fight the horde that decimated the army at Ostagar.

No redcliffe but Magick already answered it was probably thanks to Isolde's idiocy.

[Terrorize69]

I wonder if being a blood mage will allow us to bite the necks of our LIs and draw blood.. *cough*

Modifié par Terrorize69, 19 octobre 2012 - 09:02 .

[KainD]

Terrorize69 wrote...

I think if being a blood mage will allow us to bite the necks of our LIs and draw blood.. *cough*

Or make a female PC Blood mage be able to have the most epic PMS experience. 

[BlueMagitek]

KainD wrote...

I just hate it when people hold out on me. Morrigan did that too, but she told my warden more, and in the end everything. 

But Flemeth didn't answer any questions, just asked me to act or leave. I do not like people that do not take time to make others understand them. 

That is why I hated Jowan, because he didn't tell me as a friend that he was a blood mage. I would still help him, just the fact that he lied pissed me off.

The same with Anders. I wish he would tell me that he would blow up the chantry, I would still help him, but he didn't explain his plans to me, which also pissed me off.

Flemeth didn't tell me what was going on, Morrigan told me more, and was my friend, so the choice favors Morrigan. 

Edit: It's actually pretty sad. I wish bioware would make a friend/LI companion that would be totally honest and trusting of PC.

Um, everyone isn't going to tell you everything.  The PC is a Warden, their job was to end the blight. That's all.  Flemth's does not need to show her hand. 

Of course Jowan isn't going to tell you he's a blood mage.  In the Circle, surrounded by Templars, you might as well claim you're a cannibal.  And no, the PC probably would have taken the "Report to Irving immediately" route that is already offered.

Why would Hawke help blow up a Chantry? 

Flemeth didn't need to tell you what was going on.  You don't have any role in her plans and you should mind her business.  And Morrigan could easily have been lying.  

You mean Alistar?

[Garrus94]

I just want to be a horrible blood mage who helps the tevinter, is that too much to ask for?

[KainD]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Um, everyone isn't going to tell you everything.  The PC is a Warden, their job was to end the blight. That's all.  Flemth's does not need to show her hand. 

Of course Jowan isn't going to tell you he's a blood mage.  In the Circle, surrounded by Templars, you might as well claim you're a cannibal.  And no, the PC probably would have taken the "Report to Irving immediately" route that is already offered.

Why would Hawke help blow up a Chantry? 

Flemeth didn't need to tell you what was going on.  You don't have any role in her plans and you should mind her business.  And Morrigan could easily have been lying.  

You mean Alistar?

Well it was Flemeth's life and death we were talking about. I really couldn't care less what she was doing, I just wanted her not to hurt Morrigan, she said that she will, and didn't even explain why. Well sorry, but then my choice is simple. 

A real friend tells the truth, IF he was intended as a written friend to the PC. It's a PC choice after that, some would report to Irving, I personally would still help him out, and would still call him a friend after that because he was honest. 

Same thing with Anders. I don't agree with the chantry and Anders is a friend, so I would help him out with his plan, just that I would like him to be honest. 

See as a friend I trust Morrigan, because I trust my friends, that's how I roll friendship. Morrigan didn't  really lie to me about anything. So Morrigan becomes my business with Flemeth as my friend. 

Alistar was actually not bad, just that I don't really like his character. In other words he would make a good friend if he was a person I would like to be friend with in the first place. 

[Shadow Fox]

Garrus94 wrote...

I just want to be a horrible blood mage who helps the tevinter, is that too much to ask for?

Can I be a heroic noble templar that burns mages at the stake?

[KainD]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Garrus94 wrote...

I just want to be a horrible blood mage who helps the tevinter, is that too much to ask for?

Can I be a heroic noble templar that burns mages at the stake?

The more options the better. Both welcome. ^^

[Vit246]

KainD wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Garrus94 wrote...

I just want to be a horrible blood mage who helps the tevinter, is that too much to ask for?

Can I be a heroic noble templar that burns mages at the stake?

The more options the better. Both welcome. ^^

You'll burn the obviously evil mages, right? And leave the law-abiding ones alone?

[LobselVith8]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Blood mages call them demons too, not just the chantry.

Andrastians call them demons because of Chantry religious teachings.

BlueMagitek wrote...

Well, I was more referring to the OBG and murdering Flemeth as her manipulation.  Yes, Morrigan, I'm sure that the book, which only you can read, says she's going to kill you.

Not everyone shares your opinion on Morrigan.

BlueMagitek wrote...

Flemeth is the reason that the Warden could do all that.  She's the savior of Ferelden and I won't have you slandering her name.

That was apparent in Darkspawn Chronicles.

[Shadow Fox]

Vit246 wrote...

KainD wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Garrus94 wrote...

I just want to be a horrible blood mage who helps the tevinter, is that too much to ask for?

Can I be a heroic noble templar that burns mages at the stake?

The more options the better. Both welcome. ^^

You'll burn the obviously evil mages, right? And leave the law-abiding ones alone?

Ofcourse.*waves Lyrium sword*

[BlueMagitek]

KainD wrote...

Well it was Flemeth's life and death we were talking about. I really couldn't care less what she was doing, I just wanted her not to hurt Morrigan, she said that she will, and didn't even explain why. Well sorry, but then my choice is simple. 

A real friend tells the truth, IF he was intended as a written friend to the PC. It's a PC choice after that, some would report to Irving, I personally would still help him out, and would still call him a friend after that because he was honest. 

Same thing with Anders. I don't agree with the chantry and Anders is a friend, so I would help him out with his plan, just that I would like him to be honest. 

See as a friend I trust Morrigan, because I trust my friends, that's how I roll friendship. Morrigan didn't  really lie to me about anything. So Morrigan becomes my business with Flemeth as my friend. 

Alistar was actually not bad, just that I don't really like his character. In other words he would make a good friend if he was a person I would like to be friend with in the first place. 

You know, I don't recall her saying she would hurt Morrigan.  She starts out talking about how you dance to Morrigan's tune, asks why you don't sing, asks what Morrigan wants, etc.  She doesn't say she'll take Morrigan's body if you ask her. I don't see anything about killing Morrigan in her conversation.  She even offers her Grimoire for free.  So you're taking Morrigan's word, and when Flemeth laughs about it when you confront her, you assume that's a confirmation.  Really?

No, friends do keep secrets from each other.  We all have things that we don't want others to know about, and a true friend would respect that.

You're going to commit an act of terrorism because Anders is a friend?  Unfortunately for you, Hawke doesn't think that way.  Sorry.

Trusting Morrigan.  Grand idea.

He's what you asked for.  Sorry you don't like trusting people.

[BlueMagitek]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Andrastians call them demons because of Chantry religious teachings.

Not everyone shares your opinion on Morrigan.

That was apparent in Darkspawn Chronicles.

Go read the Scrolls of Banastor; he has no love for the Chantry and still calls the ones that he makes pacts with demons.

Of course, I'm sorry.  She only admits that she's quite capable of manipulation in front of you, and then she tries to get you to eliminate Flemeth and give her the soul of an old god.  There is no connection between any of these.  

Even Flemeth can only do so much against the power of the PC.