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[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
To be honest their really should  be more forbidden magic then just bloodmagic. And no their should be no consequences because of it.

Translation:

"WE WANT MORE REALISTIC CONSEQUENCES!!!......except when it inconveniences me or my ego."

Tragically, I agree with you, Soronnar. DKJaigen is right, there is more forbidden magic than just blood magic, but most people would be wary of all of it.
I expect a measure of distrust for breaking a rule of the institution that has kept the world reasonably stable for centuries. I just don't want it to ruin my game.

[BlueMagitek]

Auintus wrote...

In Origins(the system for unlocking specs was better), I intimidated Connor's demon into both teaching be Blood magic and leaving the boy alone. Then I turned that power against the Darkspawn. Nothing marking me as a terrible person there.
Anders has a conversation with Merril in DA2 that implies that blood magic can be discovered accidentally. ("You cut yourself and realized the power. You didn't actually converse with a demon, right?" Or something along those lines.)
All things considered, I think that maybe some characters would react as per your system, but there is no reason that every single person would regard me as a threat, forever.
In addition, even a power like mind control is only a tool. If employed in the right manner, for the greater good, there is no reason for a reasonable individual to consider me irredeemably evil.

Not every mage is capable of doing that, and there really isn't anything stopping the demon from coming back. 

I believe Anders was joking in that conversation.  Otherwise there would be far, far more than 17 incidents of Annulments amongst the Circles if you could discover blood magic with a cut.

Not every person.  But blood magic isn't just your everyday magic, it is seen as a very evil thing.  There's a reason that a normal mage outside of the Circle is seen as an apostate and a blood mage is seen as a maleficiar.  And if you are a blood mage, every single Templar and a number of mages should be wary, if not outright against you.

You say that, but the entire 'greater good' idea is an easy slope to go off of.  You're stripping a person of their will, and while your will may be strong now to justify it with 'greater good', who is to say that you won't think otherwise?  And who are you to decide what the greater good is? 

If you value free will, blood magic domination is just under the level of tranquility (if only from the horror that a tranquil can be reversed and a tranquil is obviously a tranquil, Blood Magic isn't neccessarily so obvious and the Litany is the only defense against it). 

[TEWR]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And you base that on nothing more than Methararis oposition to Merril?

And the fact that in DAO, she says she's never heard of a magic mirror and that in both games, she says she wants nothing to do with the mirrors ever.

[Auintus]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Not every mage is capable of doing that, and there really isn't anything stopping the demon from coming back. 

I believe Anders was joking in that conversation.  Otherwise there would be far, far more than 17 incidents of Annulments amongst the Circles if you could discover blood magic with a cut.

Not every person.  But blood magic isn't just your everyday magic, it is seen as a very evil thing.  There's a reason that a normal mage outside of the Circle is seen as an apostate and a blood mage is seen as a maleficiar.  And if you are a blood mage, every single Templar and a number of mages should be wary, if not outright against you.

You say that, but the entire 'greater good' idea is an easy slope to go off of.  You're stripping a person of their will, and while your will may be strong now to justify it with 'greater good', who is to say that you won't think otherwise?  And who are you to decide what the greater good is? 

If you value free will, blood magic domination is just under the level of tranquility (if only from the horror that a tranquil can be reversed and a tranquil is obviously a tranquil, Blood Magic isn't neccessarily so obvious and the Litany is the only defense against it). 

Fear keeps it from coming back. But I'll admit, most couldn't do that.

Anders does not joke as of DA2. Besides, with the sheltered lives mages live, open wounds of the sort required to tap blood magic wouldn't be that frequent and most would avoid it anyway for fear of demonic possession.

They would start out wary and remain that way for some time. All I want is the opportunity to prove that I am not evil or corrupt.

I'm the main character, that's how greater good is decided.
All jokes aside, I believe Abraham Lincoln once said, "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." There is no meaning to a life or story without a conflict, even if it is within oneself. I accept that challenge.

Lastly, dominion via blood magic can be released as soon as the threat is neutralized. The "cure" for Tranquility was discovered only recently, is untested, and incredibly dangerous. It is all a matter of considering it a tool in the right hands. Assuming that a character would be willing to release dominion, like mine, why would that be considered any worse than another method of neutralizing an enemy.

[BlueMagitek]

Auintus wrote...
Fear keeps it from coming back. But I'll admit, most couldn't do that.

Anders does not joke as of DA2. Besides, with the sheltered lives mages live, open wounds of the sort required to tap blood magic wouldn't be that frequent and most would avoid it anyway for fear of demonic possession.

They would start out wary and remain that way for some time. All I want is the opportunity to prove that I am not evil or corrupt.

I'm the main character, that's how greater good is decided.
All jokes aside, I believe Abraham Lincoln once said, "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." There is no meaning to a life or story without a conflict, even if it is within oneself. I accept that challenge.

Lastly, dominion via blood magic can be released as soon as the threat is neutralized. The "cure" for Tranquility was discovered only recently, is untested, and incredibly dangerous. It is all a matter of considering it a tool in the right hands. Assuming that a character would be willing to release dominion, like mine, why would that be considered any worse than another method of neutralizing an enemy.

See, you don't know that to be true, after all, you desired the demon to fear you at that time, no?  And the Warden isn't Connor's sitter.  Killing it is the only reliable way of keeping it off of him.

Sure he does.  Look at all the conversations he gets to have with Fenris.  Truly we've not had a more humorous pair since Sten and Oghren went off juggling flaming axes.

See, now you're treating people like birds.  That's hardly the way things work. Remember, blood magic is a major taboo.  It would be akin to a modern day person going around and having human sacrifice left and right (if there was some purpose to actually doing this).

Okay, so, I get that you're joking, but please, not like that.  Some posters actually believe that.  
Well, considering the PC isn't going to be soley a mage, I'm going to go ahead and say that it is more than likely that there will be plenty of conflict and power for the PC to amass.

But if you are the only one who can release dominion, (and this isn't counting the influencing through dreams), who is to say that you will always do this?  That's a lot of trust that you're asking a large amount of people, who once again have no defense against this, for. 

[Auintus]

BlueMagitek wrote...
Okay, so, I get that you're joking, but please, not like that.  Some posters actually believe that.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie] 

Reaper's blood, seriously?

See, you don't know that to be true, after all, you desired the demon to fear you at that time, no?  And the Warden isn't Connor's sitter.  Killing it is the only reliable way of keeping it off of him.

Sure he does.  Look at all the conversations he gets to have with Fenris.  Truly we've not had a more humorous pair since Sten and Oghren went off juggling flaming axes.

See, now you're treating people like birds.  That's hardly the way things work. Remember, blood magic is a major taboo.  It would be akin to a modern day person going around and having human sacrifice left and right (if there was some purpose to actually doing this).


Well, considering the PC isn't going to be soley a mage, I'm going to go ahead and say that it is more than likely that there will be plenty of conflict and power for the PC to amass.

But if you are the only one who can release dominion, (and this isn't counting the influencing through dreams), who is to say that you will always do this?  That's a lot of trust that you're asking a large amount of people, who once again have no defense against this, for. 

The epilogue said he was fine, and when Desire Demons make deals, they keep them. It's in their nature.

Rarely, and never about Merril and her magic. When it comes to that, he's absolutely vicious.

Birds? Blood magic doesn't always require a sacrifice of life, if I'm using my own blood, nobody loses anything but me.

Personal power is a very different thing. Besides, if the power of a blood mage is no different than any other sort of power, then why complain?

Again, all I'm asking for is the opportunity to earn trust. I expect that to be a much more difficult process than the average character.

Modifié par Auintus, 23 octobre 2012 - 11:45 .

[silentassassin264]

Auintus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
To be honest their really should  be more forbidden magic then just bloodmagic. And no their should be no consequences because of it.

Translation:

"WE WANT MORE REALISTIC CONSEQUENCES!!!......except when it inconveniences me or my ego."

Tragically, I agree with you, Soronnar. DKJaigen is right, there is more forbidden magic than just blood magic, but most people would be wary of all of it.
I expect a measure of distrust for breaking a rule of the institution that has kept the world reasonably stable for centuries. I just don't want it to ruin my game.

Technically, being a shapeshifter in DA:O was "forbidden" magic.  

[BlueMagitek]

Auintus wrote...

Reaper's blood, seriously?

The epilogue said he was fine, and when Desire Demons make deals, they keep them. It's in their nature.

Rarely, and never about Merril and her magic. When it comes to that, he's absolutely vicious.

Birds? Blood magic doesn't always require a sacrifice of life, if I'm using my own blood, nobody loses anything but me.

Personal power is a very different thing. Besides, if the power of a blood mage is no different than any other sort of power, then why complain?

Again, all I'm asking for is the opportunity to earn trust. I expect that to be a much more difficult process than the average character.

I'm afraid so.  They are rather easy to identify though.  

Really?  I remember Connor acting strangely.

Well, I can see why.  There are people leaping to defend her every trangression.
I think it would have been mentioned if blood magic could be learned accidently.  And there were blood mages learning at the Circle; Irving mentioned how Uldred was very good at pointing them out.

The thing is, not everyone is going to weaken themselves when they have a large amount of slaves to use it from.  Why weaken yourself if you don't need to?

Ah, but Blood Magic has spells unique to it that other magic cannot due, in addition to boosting your normal magic to ludicrous levels. 

Then what do you propose for a heavily Andrastian character as a consequence of taking the BM spec?

[Auintus]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Technically, being a shapeshifter in DA:O was "forbidden" magic.  

Exactly, blood magic is just the most widely known and feared. Me? I'm more scared of that giant eight-legged freak that Morrigan can turn into.

Modifié par Auintus, 23 octobre 2012 - 11:53 .

[Auintus]

BlueMagitek wrote...

I'm afraid so.  They are rather easy to identify though.  

Really?  I remember Connor acting strangely.

Well, I can see why.  There are people leaping to defend her every trangression.
I think it would have been mentioned if blood magic could be learned accidently.  And there were blood mages learning at the Circle; Irving mentioned how Uldred was very good at pointing them out.

The thing is, not everyone is going to weaken themselves when they have a large amount of slaves to use it from.  Why weaken yourself if you don't need to?

Ah, but Blood Magic has spells unique to it that other magic cannot due, in addition to boosting your normal magic to ludicrous levels. 

Then what do you propose for a heavily Andrastian character as a consequence of taking the BM spec?

Tears for the future of humanity. 

He acted a little off for a bit , but the epilogue said he became a great mage or something. If the demon is allowed to come back, it says he dissappears.

What's wrong with Merril?:innocent: Nah, proly shouldn't open that can of worms.
Mages can sense power like that. It's all a matter of choosing to tap into it. Yeah, blood magic can be book-learned, or taught. Doesn't always require a demon.

I would choose to weaken myself because I volunteered. I'm not saying every blood mage is good. I just want the opportunity to play one that is, which I see as very possible.

Yes, and? I like the exclusivity. I like the bit about "the only kind of magic that is truly free." The utility of it is fantastic and, employed in a controlled fashion, it could do enormous amounts of good to the world.

If someone plays an Andrastian Blood mage, they should be shot. The player, not the character. They're doing it all wrong. <_< Okay, that was probably unnecessary, but I needed to get it out of my system.
Maybe I could see a devout Andrastian who sees it as becoming evil to do good, maybe taking the blood mage spec eliminates the options for denouncing blood magic, maybe someone calls you on it, maybe denouncing blood magic eliminates the opportunity to take the spec, maybe if you take the spec and denounce blood magic, the universe divides by zero and destroys us all. I don't know, characters aren't supposed to be played like that.

Modifié par Auintus, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:55 .

[BlueMagitek]

Auintus wrote...
Tears for the future of humanity. 

He acted a little off for a bit , but the epilogue said he became a great mage or something. If the demon is allowed to come back, it says he dissappears.

What's wrong with Merril?:innocent: Nah, proly shouldn't open that can of worms.
Mages can sense power like that. It's all a matter of choosing to tap into it. Yeah, blood magic can be book-learned, or taught. Doesn't always require a demon.

I would choose to weaken myself because I volunteered. I'm not saying every blood mage is good. I just want the opportunity to play one that is, which I see as very possible.

Yes, and? I like the exclusivity. I like the bit about "the only kind of magic that is truly free." The utility of it is fantastic and, employed in a controlled fashion, it could do enormous amounts of good to the world.

If someone plays an Andrastian Blood mage, they should be shot. The player, not the character. They're doing it all wrong. <_< Okay, now that I've vented.
Maybe I could see a devout Andrastian who sees it as becoming evil to do good, maybe taking the blood mage spec eliminates the options for denouncing blood magic, maybe someone calls you on it, maybe denouncing blood magic eliminates the opportunity to take the spec, maybe if you take the spec and denounce blood magic, the universe divides by zero and destroys us all. I don't know, characters aren't supposed to be played like that.

Is that what happens?  I'll take your word for it.


I'll wait for in game proof before assuming you can just randomly learn blood magic.

Fair enough.

How is Shapeshifting not truly free?  I don't see Flemeth and Morrigan using Lyrium...  

Eh, I know how you feel. People who live their entire lives in Circles suddenly being atheists, Dwarf Nobles supporting the Chantry.  Madness, Madness!

[Heimdall]

Auintus wrote...

If someone plays an Andrastian Blood mage, they should be shot. The player, not the character. They're doing it all wrong. <_<

Well, not really.  It only requires a somewhat heretical interpretation of the Chant.  The edict against blood magic is only that, after all, an interpretation by the Chantry.

[Auintus]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Is that what happens?  I'll take your word for it.


I'll wait for in game proof before assuming you can just randomly learn blood magic.

Fair enough.

How is Shapeshifting not truly free?  I don't see Flemeth and Morrigan using Lyrium...  

Eh, I know how you feel. People who live their entire lives in Circles suddenly being atheists, Dwarf Nobles supporting the Chantry.  Madness, Madness!

Yeah, there's an epilogue page on the wiki if you wanna check.

Hawke randomly learned blood magic. Well, maybe...

"Many see it as the only form of magic that is truly free, because it is tied to the physical, not favors to spirits or demons." I assume the "favors" bit refers to the use of mana, which is tied to the Fade.

[Auintus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Auintus wrote...

If someone plays an Andrastian Blood mage, they should be shot. The player, not the character. They're doing it all wrong. <_<

Well, not really.  It only requires a somewhat heretical interpretation of the Chant.  The edict against blood magic is only that, after all, an interpretation by the Chantry.

Depending on the given definition of "devout" you may be correct. One could see themselves as devout and others simply misguided.

[Auintus]

BlueMagitek wrote...


I'll wait for in game proof before assuming you can just randomly learn blood magic.

Found it. Eh, copy/paste from the wiki. Not pretty. EDIT: Dumat, condemn this Blighted garbage. Okay, got it.

Act 1
Anders: So, when you first did blood magic, it was... just an accident, right?
Anders: You cut yourself and realized the power? You didn't actually deal with a demon?

Merril goes on to say that she did, and Anders is horrified.
triple-posting. This looks awful.

Modifié par Auintus, 24 octobre 2012 - 02:27 .

[silentassassin264]

Auintus wrote...


If someone plays an Andrastian Blood mage, they should be shot. The player, not the character. They're doing it all wrong. <_< 

I was able to roleplay an Andrastian Blood Mage Hawke.  So basically, she was a Spirit Healer at first and your normal good natured upbeat Mary Sue.  She unfortunately made the bad choice of taking Carver with her into the Deep Roads.  She tried to heal him with Spirit Healing and it failed and she was really desperate and accepted the power from the demons.  It obviously didn't work but she was still a blood mage.  She avoided using it if possible but did happen to snap fighting another blood mage who killed her mom and used the wrist slitting.  It pretty much ended up her superpowered evil side.

And yes, I take roleplaying really seriously.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 24 octobre 2012 - 02:28 .

[Auintus]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Auintus wrote...


If someone plays an Andrastian Blood mage, they should be shot. The player, not the character. They're doing it all wrong. <_< 

I was able to roleplay an Andrastian Blood Mage Hawke.  So basically, she was a Spirit Healer at first and your normal good natured upbeat Mary Sue.  She unfortunately made the bad choice of taking Carver with her into the Deep Roads.  She tried to heal him with Spirit Healing and it failed and she was really desperate and accepted the power from the demons.  It obviously didn't work but she was still a blood mage.  She avoided using it if possible but did happen to snap fighting another blood mage who killed her mom and used the wrist slitting.  It pretty much ended up her superpowered evil side.

And yes, I take roleplaying really seriously.

Something done when caught in the moment and regreted afterwards, then? I see. My previous statement was unfair.

[BlueMagitek]

Auintus wrote...

Yeah, there's an epilogue page on the wiki if you wanna check.

Hawke randomly learned blood magic. Well, maybe...

"Many see it as the only form of magic that is truly free, because it is tied to the physical, not favors to spirits or demons." I assume the "favors" bit refers to the use of mana, which is tied to the Fade.

Nah. =D

Eh, considering that blood mages literally fly into battle all around Kirkwall, I'm going to assume he just asked one of them while he was gutting them.  Probably. 

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this.

Auintus wrote...


Found it. Eh, copy/paste from the wiki. Not pretty. EDIT: Dumat, condemn this Blighted garbage. Okay, got it.

Act 1
Anders: So, when you first did blood magic, it was... just an accident, right?
Anders: You cut yourself and realized the power? You didn't actually deal with a demon?

Merril goes on to say that she did, and Anders is horrified.
triple-posting. This looks awful.

Dumat?  Ruh roh, pretty sure your lack of Andrastian is showing. >.>

I thought she learned blood magic from the demon?

[Direwolf0294]

I want necromancy. Do they exist in DA? I know there are undead but are there actually necromancers? I guess Connor was sort of one but he was possesed at the time.

[BlueMagitek]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I want necromancy. Do they exist in DA? I know there are undead but are there actually necromancers? I guess Connor was sort of one but he was possesed at the time.

Necromancy is already in the game, or it was in DA:O.  It's forcing a demon into a body.  Different sorts of undead arise based on the body and the demon.

[silentassassin264]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I want necromancy. Do they exist in DA? I know there are undead but are there actually necromancers? I guess Connor was sort of one but he was possesed at the time.

See necromancy was apart of the school of the spirit in DA Origins with the reanimate dead spell.  In DA2 they seemed have moved it to blood magic, although a blood mage Hawke cannot do it.  So yeah.

[Auintus]

BlueMagitek wrote...

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this.

The shapeshifting bit. That's just something I read about blood magic being "the only truly free school of magic."

Dumat?  Ruh roh, pretty sure your lack of Andrastian is showing. >.>

I thought she learned blood magic from the demon?

...I got four soveriegns and an amulet for making a sacrifice at his altar. And that's after he was killed in the first Blight! The Silent Lord takes great pains to reward the faithful. But I digress.

She did learn it from the demon. I just wanted to point out that Anders states that it can be discovered individually.

Modifié par Auintus, 24 octobre 2012 - 02:37 .

[LobselVith8]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Eh, I know how you feel. People who live their entire lives in Circles suddenly being atheists, Dwarf Nobles supporting the Chantry. Madness, Madness!

An elven mage could have plenty of reason not to believe. It's pretty much how I shaped my Surana Warden.

Perhaps Merrill taught Hawke blood magic? There really isn't anything concrete to explain how apostate Hawke learned the specialization, but I think it would made sense. I figured my apostate Hawke could have learned about being a Spirit Healer from Anders for the first few years, and about blood magic from Merrill for the next few years.

[BlueMagitek]

Auintus wrote...

The shapeshifting bit. That's just something I read about blood magic being "the only truly free school of magic."

...I got four soveriegns and an amulet for making a sacrifice at his altar. And that's after he was killed in the first Blight! The Silent Lord takes great pains to reward the faithful. But I digress.

She did learn it from the demon. I just wanted to point out that Anders states that it can be discovered individually.

Well, clearly the writer wasn't aware of all schools of magic.  Codexes are biased and what have you.

I don't know, Andraste raised a decapitated redhead and changed the codexes appropriately.

I still take that as sort of a 'I know this isn't possible but I'm going to ask you anyway in the hopes that it is'.   Like... Oh, I don't know.  "That's not a bomb, right?"  "It sure is!" "x.x"

[BlueMagitek]

LobselVith8 wrote...

An elven mage could have plenty of reason not to believe. It's pretty much how I shaped my Surana Warden.

Taken there from a young age and living amongst Andrastians, some of them radically so, does not make a recipe for atheism.