2177 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@LobselVith8: Are you equally as outraged at the thought of the men, women, and children visiting the Chantry that one apostate blew up?

No - I do not support Annulment.  

The Kirkwall Chantry is closed to the public at night - which is why Hawke can have confrontations with Isabela's enemies, and with templars, without any civilians present. I don't see why this wouldn't be the case when it's closed to the public at night throughout all three Acts of Dragon Age II. Also, the only people who are seen when Anders destroys the Kirkwall Chantry are members of the Chantry, and members of the Order of Templars.

[Cody]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

The entire Chantry square of Kirkwall was decimated and several parts of the city was literally lit on fire. And somehow you think that only Chantry personnel was harmed?.....

No, he thinks that mostly Chantry personnel were harmed.

No, if you actually read my posts you would know I said that there would be not that people outside of the chantry or of the blasts radius that would be killed and injured.

The people in the Chantry would be killed. Don't put words in my mouth.

Yeah, so most of the people harmed would be working for the Chantry. Please read my post next time.

I see. My apologies, running on 5 hours sleep in a hot room. Not working well for me

[Xilizhra]

I'm not saying you're being dishonest about what your characters would want. That's stupid, we have no reason to lie on this forum. What I'm saying that even in the very unlikely event that your character got through this without learning to see enemies everywhere, the other mages would just build another Tevinter (mage-on-mage crime optional), either because all they see are enemies of the revolution, or because the quote captures them perfectly. Or both. Or some of each working alongside each other.

Obviously, we don't know what's going to be in-game yet, although I know I'll work against this happening.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not saying you're being dishonest about what your characters would want. That's stupid, we have no reason to lie on this forum. What I'm saying that even in the very unlikely event that your character got through this without learning to see enemies everywhere, the other mages would just build another Tevinter (mage-on-mage crime optional), either because all they see are enemies of the revolution, or because the quote captures them perfectly. Or both. Or some of each working alongside each other.

Obviously, we don't know what's going to be in-game yet, although I know I'll work against this happening.

If I know Thedas at all, some mages won't be. And you will need templars for them.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm addressing the pro-mage path: Meredith orders the execution of hundreds of men, women, and children to appease a hypothetical mob, but Cullen doesn't stop her. Cullen intervenes only when she threatens templar-killing Hawke, because now he feels she's crossing the line. 

Let's nto forget that as far as anyone know, all mages in the Circle were involed with this.
With Orsinos dabbling in forbidden experiments, mages practicing blood magic and open conflict in the streets, is it any wonder when a templar starts thinking that the Cirlce is lost? 

As far as anyone knew? The templars who accompanied Meredith heard Anders' confession, and Meredith's only argument in the streets of Kirkwall and at the Gallows is that the "people will demand blood." She's going to kill every man, woman, and child with magical ability to appease a hypothetical mob. And Cullen decides that the line has been crossed when pro-mage Hawke's life is threatened? When pro-mage Hawke has been killing every single templar, to carve a path to freedom?

[Medhia Nox]

Okay - I JUST re-watched the explosion of the Kirkwall Chantry.

Stone is thrown across the entire city - nearly every visible street is on fire - many of the buildings and the explosion (as signified by the dust cloud) covers many city blocks.

And when it goes back to Orsino - flaming debris is falling around him.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 25 octobre 2012 - 06:59 .

[Xilizhra]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not saying you're being dishonest about what your characters would want. That's stupid, we have no reason to lie on this forum. What I'm saying that even in the very unlikely event that your character got through this without learning to see enemies everywhere, the other mages would just build another Tevinter (mage-on-mage crime optional), either because all they see are enemies of the revolution, or because the quote captures them perfectly. Or both. Or some of each working alongside each other.

Obviously, we don't know what's going to be in-game yet, although I know I'll work against this happening.

If I know Thedas at all, some mages won't be. And you will need templars for them.

Not the Chantry's templars.

[Cody]

Tbh I think the Circles should be in the deeproads. And/Or in Orzammar. With the top of the towers leading back to the outside in case they wish to go on other business, get fresh air, etc. This way they can have some Dwarves watch over them, though with less numbers then what a traditional circle would have of templars. Since the Dwarves down under still retain their resistence to magic they can be perfectly capable of making sure Mages do not lose themselves. Combined with some templar training? They could easily watch over a mage without fear of being ripped apart. I would think they would also keep their resistance to blood magic as well but I am not sure. The description seems to say that dwarves that live underground have a high resistence to magic. Whether that means blood magic as well is another story.

This way the mages can also get some first hand experience in healing and combat. They can heal any injured dwarves and legions that get hurt from battling darkspawn. And once experienced enough can combat some of the lesser darkspawn. Plus they will be isolated from those that fear them and would do harm to them. And they can still go up and get some nice fresh air at the top of the tower!

They would have less people watching over them and have less power of authority over them(the templars have too much power as it is that a standford incident would be bound to happen like it did in Kirkwall) while their watchers would have even better resistance to their magic. They would get some first hand experience in terms of healing and combat, and can see the open world whenever they want. Only ones who suffer from this deal is the darkspawn tbh....and any circle taken over by the darkspawn but that is why the circles would hve to be near Orzammar or a heavily defended Legion base or posts in order for it to work.

Then of course there is the Lyrium trade as well. Mages get any Lyrium they need since it is close by, Templars would not be manipulated and controlled via Lyrium by the chantry since they would not be needed so even the Templars Benefit from it as well.

Modifié par CodyMelch, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:02 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not the Chantry's templars.

I assure you I understand your objection, but it might be inevitable: how many other Templars can there be? Besides, there's got to be some good seeds in the bunch.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:03 .

[Xilizhra]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Not the Chantry's templars.

It might be inevitable: how many other Templars can there be? Besides, there's got to be some good seeds in the bunch.

My plan is to train new warriors who've never had Chantry attachment for that sort of work. I may need to snare a few former templars to handle the training, but otherwise, I want no part of them.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

The entire Chantry square of Kirkwall was decimated and several parts of the city was literally lit on fire. And somehow you think that only Chantry personnel was harmed?.....

No, he thinks that mostly Chantry personnel were harmed.

Which is ridiculous. He claims himself the Chantry is absically empty, which would mean few casualties for the Chantry, yet entire living areas of Kirkwall, you know the place where people live, are actually set on fire by the blast. So obviously far more civilians than Chantry personnel died.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Not the Chantry's templars.

It might be inevitable: how many other Templars can there be? Besides, there's got to be some good seeds in the bunch.

My plan is to train new warriors who've never had Chantry attachment for that sort of work. I may need to snare a few former templars to handle the training, but otherwise, I want no part of them.

And who watches the mages in the meantime?

[LobselVith8]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xilizhra: Oh - didn't see it, must not haev happened. I get it.

Let's forget even fictional physics of what explosions are likely to do.

This was a magical smart bomb that exonerates terrorists.

I think pro-mage apostate Hawke could argue that Anders was trying to put an end to the slavery of their people.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

The entire Chantry square of Kirkwall was decimated and several parts of the city was literally lit on fire. And somehow you think that only Chantry personnel was harmed?.....

No, he thinks that mostly Chantry personnel were harmed.

Which is ridiculous. He claims himself the Chantry is absically empty, which would mean few casualties for the Chantry, yet entire living areas of Kirkwall, you know the place where people live, are actually set on fire by the blast. So obviously far more civilians than Chantry personnel died.

I agree, but that's already been covered.

[Xilizhra]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Not the Chantry's templars.

It might be inevitable: how many other Templars can there be? Besides, there's got to be some good seeds in the bunch.

My plan is to train new warriors who've never had Chantry attachment for that sort of work. I may need to snare a few former templars to handle the training, but otherwise, I want no part of them.

And who watches the mages in the meantime?

That depends on what the circumstances are, which I don't know yet.

[Cody]

It's been a while so I did not clearly remember the scene. My sig only shows parts of the blast so I did not remember how bad it was.

Nevertheless. It was an act that needed to happen.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Not the Chantry's templars.

It might be inevitable: how many other Templars can there be? Besides, there's got to be some good seeds in the bunch.

My plan is to train new warriors who've never had Chantry attachment for that sort of work. I may need to snare a few former templars to handle the training, but otherwise, I want no part of them.

And who watches the mages in the meantime?

That depends on what the circumstances are, which I don't know yet.

Then how do you know that you can do this without either using Chantry templars or leaving the mages underguarded?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:16 .

[Xilizhra]

Then how do you know that you can do this without either using Chantry templars or leaving the mages underguarded?

It's possible that I can't, but I'm going to aim to do otherwise.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

Then how do you know that you can do this without either using Chantry templars or leaving the mages underguarded?

It's possible that I can't, but I'm going to aim to do otherwise.

Cool.

Now that we've got that covered, how do you think it's all going to happen? Are we going to be stuck between two messed up choices like we were at Kirkwall in the Annulment thing, or are we going to have the option to do both alongside the option to actually create a relatively okay Thedas like they have us in DA:O?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:21 .

[Medhia Nox]

@LobselVith8: Aside from two key points - those being blood magic and terrorism to obtain freedom - I find you to be quite reasonable. My "main" is for Circle Reform - but against the type of Circle Rebellion which has popped up.

In truth... Senior Enchanter Torren tells you that Dragon Age 3 is going to happen in the mage origin of Dragon Age: Origins.

And he believes a rebellion is both short sighted and doomed. I tend to agree.

I side against the mage rebellion for the long term survival of the mages - and because I wholly disagree with terrorism and blood magic.

When the dust finally settles and every psychotic mage is dead or fleeing - and every fascist templar is dead or imprisoned... then it'll be mages like my main which will be needed to put together something that "might" work.  Of course - for roleplaying purposes - I imagine it is personally my mage who does exactly that.

Radicals 'never' compromise - so after the war - they'll no longer be needed.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:22 .

[Cody]

Until they increase their level of technology to be at least to what ours was back in the late 1800's. They will need a group of trained people guarding them. What they can't have is those people having as much authority over them as the templars had. It goes to far and half the time leads to abuse. As shown in the Standford Experiment. Which is why I suggested the Circles be in the deeproads with the system I offered above. They are guarded by highly magical resistant beings who would have templar training to watch over them but have less authority over them and would only be their to make sure Hell does not break loose.

Won't be needed by the time the DA verse reaches the level of tech we had in the late 1800's or later but you get my point.

[Xilizhra]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Then how do you know that you can do this without either using Chantry templars or leaving the mages underguarded?

It's possible that I can't, but I'm going to aim to do otherwise.

Cool.

Now that we've got that covered, how do you think it's all going to happen? Are we going to be stuck between two messed up choices like we were at Kirkwall in the Annulment thing, or are we going to have the option to do both alongside the option to actually create a relatively okay Thedas like they have us in DA:O?

Our definitions seem to differ, because I didn't consider the end choice messed up at all. classic good vs. evil. In DA3... well, how'd you define "messed up" vs. "relatively okay?"

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

CodyMelch wrote...

Until they increase their level of technology to be at least to what ours was back in the late 1800's. They will need a group of trained people guarding them. What they can't have is those people having as much authority over them as the templars had. It goes to far and half the time leads to abuse. As shown in the Standford Experiment. Which is why I suggested the Circles be in the deeproads with the system I offered above. They are guarded by highly magical resistant beings who would have templar training to watch over them but have less authority over them and would only be their to make sure Hell does not break loose.

Won't be needed by the time the DA verse reaches the level of tech we had in the late 1800's or later but you get my point.

The only two point there I disagree with are 1: Magic becoming less dangerous against 1800s level tech (I believe the qunari are about there) and 2: Mages going into the Deep Roads. It's a good idea, but if you picked Harrowmont, it's not happening. (On the other hand, Bhelen seems to be more popular on the boards, partially for the same reason he's a better option in this regard.)

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Then how do you know that you can do this without either using Chantry templars or leaving the mages underguarded?

It's possible that I can't, but I'm going to aim to do otherwise.

Cool.

Now that we've got that covered, how do you think it's all going to happen? Are we going to be stuck between two messed up choices like we were at Kirkwall in the Annulment thing, or are we going to have the option to do both alongside the option to actually create a relatively okay Thedas like they have us in DA:O?

Our definitions seem to differ, because I didn't consider the end choice messed up at all. classic good vs. evil. In DA3... well, how'd you define "messed up" vs. "relatively okay?"

I was under the impression that Orsino revealed himself to be a less noble option than all that around the Harvester fight, not to mention kind of crazy when he turned himself into a Harvester for no reason. (Bear in mind I haven't actually played DA2.)

[Cody]

I do not think the Qunari are there yet. I think by the end of the 1800's we were using guns. So by the time they get to late 1800's to early 1900's magic they will need someone looking over them.

Hell I don't think the Qunari are even in the early 1800's tech. We had guns around that time though they were muskets(I think). Really I think the Qunari are around 15-1600's tech.

And funny enough, Bio confirmed that they had Orsino transform into a harvestor on the mages side just so that they could add another boss fight, despite it going against the situation they were in since Hawke and co were leading the mages to victory.

Modifié par CodyMelch, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:30 .