2177 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I was under the impression that Orsino revealed himself to be a less noble option than all that around the Harvester fight, not to mention kind of crazy when he turned himself into a Harvester for no reason. (Bear in mind I haven't actually played DA2.)

Orsino was only one person of many that I had to save from the templars. It was tragic, but minor compared to the Annulment itself.

[EmperorSahlertz]

CodyMelch wrote...

Until they increase their level of technology to be at least to what ours was back in the late 1800's. They will need a group of trained people guarding them. What they can't have is those people having as much authority over them as the templars had. It goes to far and half the time leads to abuse. As shown in the Standford Experiment. Which is why I suggested the Circles be in the deeproads with the system I offered above. They are guarded by highly magical resistant beings who would have templar training to watch over them but have less authority over them and would only be their to make sure Hell does not break loose.

Won't be needed by the time the DA verse reaches the level of tech we had in the late 1800's or later but you get my point.

Dwarves are a threatened race. There aren't enough, nor are they even in control of enough of the deep roads, to even come close to repalce the Templars as wardens of the mages.

[Xilizhra]

Dwarves are a threatened race. There aren't enough, nor are they even in control of enough of the deep roads, to even come close to repalce the Templars as wardens of the mages.

What if they allied with the Architect's awakened darkspawn?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dwarves are a threatened race. There aren't enough, nor are they even in control of enough of the deep roads, to even come close to repalce the Templars as wardens of the mages.

What if they allied with the Architect's awakened darkspawn?

It's still not clear that that's a good idea. He failed with Urthemiel, he failed with the Mother, and it's unclear he even has the Wardens' best interests at heart. Hell, I'm not sure how many of my playthroughs I'm even going to spare him in.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:56 .

[TheJediSaint]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Dwarves are a threatened race. There aren't enough, nor are they even in control of enough of the deep roads, to even come close to repalce the Templars as wardens of the mages.

What if they allied with the Architect's awakened darkspawn?

It's still not clear that that's a good idea. He failed with Urthemiel, he failed with the Mother, and it's unclear he even has the Wardens' best interests at heart. Hell, I'm not sure how many of my playthroughs I'm even going to spare him in.

The fact is, the Architecht was a bungler.   A powerful, intelligent, and charming bungler, but a bungler still.   Fortunatly in my playthroughs, he's a very dead bungler.

[LobselVith8]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@LobselVith8: Aside from two key points - those being blood magic and terrorism to obtain freedom - I find you to be quite reasonable. My "main" is for Circle Reform - but against the type of Circle Rebellion which has popped up.

In truth... Senior Enchanter Torren tells you that Dragon Age 3 is going to happen in the mage origin of Dragon Age: Origins.

And he believes a rebellion is both short sighted and doomed. I tend to agree.

You and I certainly disagree about that issue.

Medhia Nox wrote...

I side against the mage rebellion for the long term survival of the mages - and because I wholly disagree with terrorism and blood magic.

When the dust finally settles and every psychotic mage is dead or fleeing - and every fascist templar is dead or imprisoned... then it'll be mages like my main which will be needed to put together something that "might" work.  Of course - for roleplaying purposes - I imagine it is personally my mage who does exactly that.

Radicals 'never' compromise - so after the war - they'll no longer be needed.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Some may see Anders' actions as terrorism, but others see it as one man taking steps to emancipate mages from slavery. I can understand where Anders is coming from in seeking to put an end to the Chantry controlled Circles. He lost Karl, and that changed him dramatically. Frankly, if someone I loved was turned tranquil, and this person managed to regain their humanity and begging to be put out of his (or her) misery, it would irrevocably change me to end the life of someone I loved; I'd probably go to any lengths to make sure it never happened to anyone ever again.

Honestly, I probably would have gone about the mage revolution in a different way with my apostate Hawke than Anders did. I think there was potential in Ser Thrask's plan for mages to work alongside templars. But Thrask died because the Plot demanded it, so it wasn't an option. But if apostate Hawke lost Bethany to tranquility instead of the darkspawn, perhaps that would change.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@LobselVith8: Are you equally as outraged at the thought of the men, women, and children visiting the Chantry that one apostate blew up?

No - I do not support Annulment.  

The Kirkwall Chantry is closed to the public at night - which is why Hawke can have confrontations with Isabela's enemies, and with templars, without any civilians present. I don't see why this wouldn't be the case when it's closed to the public at night throughout all three Acts of Dragon Age II. Also, the only people who are seen when Anders destroys the Kirkwall Chantry are members of the Chantry, and members of the Order of Templars.

It wasn't night.
Also we can see fires on houses around the Chantry caused by the explosion and debris.

[BlueMagitek]

CodyMelch wrote...

Call me out on what? That it happened? It did. And yes it is canon unless Bio has come out and said otherwise(they did not). And how do you know he does not have the tendency to do so? We do not get much contact with him and quite frankly it fits his character quite well since he admits that he would sacrifice an innocent mage over an innocent non mage in a heartbeat. Combined with thinking that the very idea of allowing one circle of magi to have it's own independence is just mind blowing, I think it is safe to say that he would have no qualms punching out a preggers women if she was a mage.

An event that happens once isn't a tendency.  A tendency is a pattern.  Leliana doesn't have a tendency of coming back from the dead, for example, as it only has happened once. 

The vast majority of people would think that allowing a Circle of Magi independence is mind blowing.  And I believe he says that statement about anulling the tower, which is killing all the mages, blood or otherwise, to prevent any from harming the innocent people outside.  Which is the right thing to do because, as you may have noticed, Uldred is literally forcing demons into people.  Not every abomination is the grossly mutated kind (look at Uldred).  It's the only way to be sure, unless he has Irving's claims otherwise.

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

I'm not sure of the
canonicity of the comics. I've heard people say they are, but I don't
think I've seen anything straight from Gaider on the subject.

As
for Gregoire, in the comics, his hair was completely black. In the game?
Grey. Maybe he mellowed out a little in the interim? It looks like he's
had enough time.

Fair enough. 

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Kirkwall Chantry is closed to the public at night - which is why Hawke can have confrontations with Isabela's enemies, and with templars, without any civilians present. I don't see why this wouldn't be the case when it's closed to the public at night throughout all three Acts of Dragon Age II. Also, the only people who are seen when Anders destroys the Kirkwall Chantry are members of the Chantry, and members of the Order of Templars. 

It wasn't night.
Also we can see fires on houses around the Chantry caused by the explosion and debris. 

The explosion transpires across the night sky of Kirkwall.

[Xilizhra]

The vast majority of people would think that allowing a Circle of Magi independence is mind blowing. And I believe he says that statement about anulling the tower, which is killing all the mages, blood or otherwise, to prevent any from harming the innocent people outside. Which is the right thing to do because, as you may have noticed, Uldred is literally forcing demons into people. Not every abomination is the grossly mutated kind (look at Uldred). It's the only way to be sure, unless he has Irving's claims otherwise.

Every forced abomination who isn't a pride one, and even some of them, are grossly mutated. And pride demons are both highly rare and don't seem to be prone to hiding; additionally, just harmlessly bopping even a hidden abomination with magic will cause it to immediately attack, so they can be discerned fairly easily.

[Cody]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It wasn't night.

Yes it was

[Cody]

BlueMagitek wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

Call me out on what? That it happened? It did. And yes it is canon unless Bio has come out and said otherwise(they did not). And how do you know he does not have the tendency to do so? We do not get much contact with him and quite frankly it fits his character quite well since he admits that he would sacrifice an innocent mage over an innocent non mage in a heartbeat. Combined with thinking that the very idea of allowing one circle of magi to have it's own independence is just mind blowing, I think it is safe to say that he would have no qualms punching out a preggers women if she was a mage.

An event that happens once isn't a tendency.  A tendency is a pattern.  Leliana doesn't have a tendency of coming back from the dead, for example, as it only has happened once. 

The vast majority of people would think that allowing a Circle of Magi independence is mind blowing.  And I believe he says that statement about anulling the tower, which is killing all the mages, blood or otherwise, to prevent any from harming the innocent people outside.  Which is the right thing to do because, as you may have noticed, Uldred is literally forcing demons into people.  Not every abomination is the grossly mutated kind (look at Uldred).  It's the only way to be sure, unless he has Irving's claims otherwise.

I know what a tendency is. I am saying that just because we did not see it happen does not mean it could not have. If he did it once he could do it again.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm addressing the pro-mage path: Meredith orders the execution of hundreds of men, women, and children to appease a hypothetical mob, but Cullen doesn't stop her. Cullen intervenes only when she threatens templar-killing Hawke, because now he feels she's crossing the line.

As was said earlier, I can somewhat see why considering he's the Champion and not part of the Circle. In the best interests of maintaining peace, arresting him would be the best option. Since he's not part of the Circle, he cannot be executed among them.

He can, however, still be held accountable for his actions. More then likely, Hawke would've been put on trial for his actions had Meredith not cemented her insanity in the eyes of the Templars. This trial would possibly result in him being found guilty and executed for his actions -- whether they were right or wrong would be irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

Since he's not part of the Circle, the Templars would want to maintain some sense of the law.

That's what I think anyway.

What gets to me is that they're planning on arresting a pro-Templar Hawke, who may have been helping them throughout the entire time he's been in Kirkwall. If Hawke's a Mage, it's not quite as ludicrous sounding, but otherwise....

...why would you arrest your ally who has influence with the city?

[BlueMagitek]

CodyMelch wrote...

I know what a tendency is. I am saying that just because we did not see it happen does not mean it could not have. If he did it once he could do it again.

Oh?  So, we're using one event to establish a pattern?  Well, I guess Merrill goes around getting everyone that cares about her killed, Leliana is basically the Kenny of the Dragon Age universe, every mage is going to be attacked by demons, Anders goes out and kills a ton of innocent people (while only intending to kill a few guilty ones) every weekend....

Xilizhra wrote...

Every forced abomination who isn't a
pride one, and even some of them, are grossly mutated. And pride demons
are both highly rare and don't seem to be prone to hiding; additionally,
just harmlessly bopping even a hidden abomination with magic will cause
it to immediately attack, so they can be discerned fairly
easily.

Where is this shown?  Wynne herself is an abomination of sorts and as I recall her story the spirit just kind of forced itself on her.  And taught her an ice spell that she doesn't have.

[Cody]

BlueMagitek wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

I know what a tendency is. I am saying that just because we did not see it happen does not mean it could not have. If he did it once he could do it again.

Oh?  So, we're using one event to establish a pattern?  Well, I guess Merrill goes around getting everyone that cares about her killed, Leliana is basically the Kenny of the Dragon Age universe, every mage is going to be attacked by demons, Anders goes out and kills a ton of innocent people (while only intending to kill a few guilty ones) every weekend....

I guess you may have a point. I still do not see him as a good templar because of that incident.

[LobselVith8]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Oh?  So, we're using one event to establish a pattern?  Well, I guess Merrill goes around getting everyone that cares about her killed, Leliana is basically the Kenny of the Dragon Age universe, every mage is going to be attacked by demons, Anders goes out and kills a ton of innocent people (while only intending to kill a few guilty ones) every weekend.... 

Emphasis mine. Never happened in the first place.

[Shadow Fox]

LobselVith8 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Oh?  So, we're using one event to establish a pattern?  Well, I guess Merrill goes around getting everyone that cares about her killed, Leliana is basically the Kenny of the Dragon Age universe, every mage is going to be attacked by demons, Anders goes out and kills a ton of innocent people (while only intending to kill a few guilty ones) every weekend.... 

Emphasis mine. Never happened in the first place.

If Merril gave up the damn mirror like the Keeper told her to it wouldn't have happened ergo it's mostly her fault for not listening everything that happened to Merril was her own doing.

[Cody]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Oh?  So, we're using one event to establish a pattern?  Well, I guess Merrill goes around getting everyone that cares about her killed, Leliana is basically the Kenny of the Dragon Age universe, every mage is going to be attacked by demons, Anders goes out and kills a ton of innocent people (while only intending to kill a few guilty ones) every weekend.... 

Emphasis mine. Never happened in the first place.

If Merril gave up the damn mirror like the Keeper told her to it wouldn't have happened ergo it's mostly her fault for not listening everything that happened to Merril was her own doing.

and if the keeper had not let the demon possess her she would not have been killed by hawke and co and the clan would have no reason to attack Hawke and co. Ergo it is Marithari's fault.

[BlueMagitek]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Emphasis mine. Never happened in the first place.

Is there a way to save Marethi?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I do not believe so.

[BlueMagitek]

Then the point, which was that we can't use a single incident as a pattern, holds. >.>

[The Hierophant]

CodyMelch wrote...

and if the keeper had not let the demon possess her she would not have been killed by hawke and co and the clan would have no reason to attack Hawke and co. Ergo it is Marithari's fault.

I believe that the reasoning behind Marethari's possession was as derpy as Orsino going one-winged angel on you despite your support. For someone with decades of experience in ensuring the survival of her people, i'm surprised the clan lasted as long as it did.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 25 octobre 2012 - 10:06 .

[Auintus]

Xilizhra wrote...
Gah. I'm only killing enemy combatants and dissolving the Templar Order. What I need to do is do so in a way that it won't be able to reform by itself, and that method, I'm not yet sure of.

Everything that you have said so far makes me here "dissolve" as "annihilate." If you are willing to parley with the moderates than I would like to apologize for misreading your intentions.

[Auintus]

The Hierophant wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

and if the keeper had not let the demon possess her she would not have been killed by hawke and co and the clan would have no reason to attack Hawke and co. Ergo it is Marithari's fault.

I believe that the reasoning behind Marethari's possession was as derpy as Orsino going one-winged angel on you despite your support. For someone with decades of experience in ensuring the survival of her people, i'm surprised the clan lasted as long as it did.

She cared more for Merril's life than her own. Merril's obsession with the mirror ensured that someone would be possessed soon enough and Marethari chose to pay the price for her. Merril's fault for pushing the issue, but Marethari chose to sacrifice herself to save Merril.

[Cody]

The Hierophant wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

and if the keeper had not let the demon possess her she would not have been killed by hawke and co and the clan would have no reason to attack Hawke and co. Ergo it is Marithari's fault.

I believe that the reasoning behind Marethari's possession was as derpy as Orsino going one-winged angel on you despite your support. For someone with decades of experience in ensuring the survival of her people, i'm surprised the clan lasted as long as it did.

Well she is old, it looks like her age caught up with her mind. Shame her clan had to pay for it in the end

But yea they probably just wanted yet another boss fight.