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[The Elder King]

Auintus wrote...



Alright, consider the Legion of the Dead. From what I understand, few of them are lost to the taint. Let's not metagame, shall we? Plenty of the rest of the expedition could have caught something.

They've known a better life and Hawke's mother wouldn't have made Lowtown long. Also, who would want to stay with Gamlen?

Well, for Leandra, I'd say it would've been better if she stayed in Lowtown.
Eh, it's better if I don't think about that particular quest in Act 2. One of the worst quest of DA2 for me.

[Auintus]

hhh89 wrote...

Well, for Leandra, I'd say it would've been better if she stayed in Lowtown.
Eh, it's better if I don't think about that particular quest in Act 2. One of the worst quest of DA2 for me.

Because an older woman down with the filth and the sick is a recipe for longevity.

Wait, which quest? I don't follow.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I'm going to take a guess and say it's the one where she dies.

[The Elder King]

LobselVith8 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Lobsel, there was a period where Merrill often forgot to eat. At least in that period, she was too obsessed by her goal. Though the goal itself isn't an obsession.

You mean the one scene where Varric and Hawke, where she is frustrated over her inability to fully restore the Eluvian? I don't see how that means she's obsessive. Why is it that Hawke isn't called "obsessive" when he ventures into the Deep Roads for a fortune, but Merrill is called "obsessive" because she's trying to end the plight of the People through revolutionary elven technology that may be capable of changing the lives of the elves across the continent?

My Hawke wanted to protect Bethany from the templars. The only way to do this is become rich and restore the family's name. The only way to do so in the fastest time is going to the DR's expedition.
And I've said that she was obsessed in the period in which she forgot to eat, not every single year she tried to fix the mirror. I said that the goal that she had isn't an obsession, and I've said in another post that the goal is a worthy one. Simply, there's not time limit. Merrill had all the time she wanted. There's no need to stress herself to the point of forgetting to eat. So, in my opinion, in that period, she was obsessed by her goal. Not before that period, and not after.
edit: and if you'd call my Hawke obsessed by it, I wouldn't care. I'd say he was a little obsessed of finding a way to protect Bethany that wouldn't require declaring war to the Order in Kirkwall.

Modifié par hhh89, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:20 .

[Auintus]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

I'm going to take a guess and say it's the one where she dies.

Ooh, I'm a terrible person. Forgot all about that.

[LobselVith8]

Auintus wrote...

I would appreciate it if you would quit comparing Hawke and Merrill. Trying to get your family out of a rat hole is quite a bit different than digging up a dirty piece of glass that comes with demons and abominations.

You mean Hawke risking the life of one of his companions for the benefit of Hawke and his family so they can live in a lofty mansion, since Hawke had already made enough money to move to a better house before departing with Bartrand and Varric? As opposed to Merrill, who successfully cleansed the shard of taint and was working to reconstruct an Eluvian through diligent study of the lore and extrapolating information from the shard.

Yeah, there's no comparison between the two.

Auintus wrote...

A place of ignorance in elven culture maybe, but his sister is/was a mage, and he might have been as well. He knows enough about magic to avoid dealing with demons.

Which has nothing to do with the Eluvian at that point in time, since Merrill spoke to Audacity exclusively to learn blood magic, which already happened.

[The Elder King]

Auintus wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Well, for Leandra, I'd say it would've been better if she stayed in Lowtown.
Eh, it's better if I don't think about that particular quest in Act 2. One of the worst quest of DA2 for me.

Because an older woman down with the filth and the sick is a recipe for longevity.

Wait, which quest? I don't follow.

Not longevity, but it's better than having your head cut down by a psycopath/insane/whatever Quentin was. Gamlen was older than Leandra, and lived 5-6 years in Kirkwall after Act 1.
The quest I hate is the one in which Leandra dies. Though my hate for it is probably caused by my personal situation. I wouldn't have liked regardless, if my situation was different, but I wouldn't hate it as much as I hate it now.

[silentassassin264]

Auintus wrote...

Alright, consider the Legion of the Dead. From what I understand, few of them are lost to the taint. Let's not metagame, shall we? Plenty of the rest of the expedition could have caught something.

They've known a better life and Hawke's mother wouldn't have made Lowtown long. Also, who would want to stay with Gamlen?

I never recall seeing that the Legion of the Dead lost few to the taint anywhere.  Not that that would even be good statistical data anyway because they don't really have a long life expectancy regardless.  Also, in the Dwarf commoner origin, the Warrior you drug (or Leske does) specifically says that the Darkspawn themselves are not even the worst of it and says the taint is what really is the risk.

And who would want to be a drifter unable to call anywhere home knowing that your civilization used to be great?  

[thats1evildude]

Fifty sovereigns is a lot of cash, but it's hardly a king's ransom. Hawke could probably have found slightly better accomodations with that money, but eventually the gold would have ran out and Hawke would have to return to mercenary work. That too is very risky. Going on the expedition set Hawke up for life.  FOR LIFE.

Yeah, it's a risk, but Hawke's an adventurer. Risk is part of the job.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:26 .

[LobselVith8]

Auintus wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Actually, Marethari claims in Act III that Audacity would escape through the Eluvian.

"Hey, you should let me possess you. It's the only way I can fix the mirror." Real subtle. True manipulation takes time, push it too fast and you lose your chance completely...Not that I would know that.

Yeah, into Merril. I assumed she meant as a tool, not literally.

Considering Merrill never allowed Audacity to possess her for nearly ten years, I don't see the point. The fact that Marethari released Audacity suggests she may have been the target all along, since Merrill reveals she will never release Audacity.

[The Elder King]

thats1evildude wrote...

Fifty sovereigns is a lot of cash, but it's hardly a king's ransom. Hawke could probably have found better accomodations with that money, but going on the expedition set him and his family up for life.

My main goal for finding money and the noble's title was to protect Bethany. And yeah, making Leandra's life a little better after losing Carver.

[Auintus]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Auintus wrote...

I would appreciate it if you would quit comparing Hawke and Merrill. Trying to get your family out of a rat hole is quite a bit different than digging up a dirty piece of glass that comes with demons and abominations.

You mean Hawke risking the life of one of his companions for the benefit of Hawke and his family so they can live in a lofty mansion, since Hawke had already made enough money to move to a better house before departing with Bartrand and Varric? As opposed to Merrill, who successfully cleansed the shard of taint and was working to reconstruct an Eluvian through diligent study of the lore and extrapolating information from the shard.

Yeah, there's no comparison between the two.

Auintus wrote...

A place of ignorance in elven culture maybe, but his sister is/was a mage, and he might have been as well. He knows enough about magic to avoid dealing with demons.

Which has nothing to do with the Eluvian at that point in time, since Merrill spoke to Audacity exclusively to learn blood magic, which already happened.

Hawke forced that threat on no one. Merril is consorting with a demon not far from the Dalish camp.

No, Merril spoke to Audacity to cleanse the shard. He's the only reason she got as far as she did.

[LobselVith8]

Auintus wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You mean the one scene where Varric and Hawke, where she is frustrated over her inability to fully restore the Eluvian? I don't see how that means she's obsessive. Why is it that Hawke isn't called "obsessive" when he ventures into the Deep Roads for a fortune, but Merrill is called "obsessive" because she's trying to end the plight of the People through revolutionary elven technology that may be capable of changing the lives of the elves across the continent?

We've been over this. Wanting something doesn't make you obsessive. Letting what you want consume you makes you obsessive.

Merrill was trying to help the Dalish, who lost virtually everything in the fall of the Dales. Her goal required time and effort. The Eluvian may have changed everything for them.

[Auintus]

silentassassin264 wrote...

I never recall seeing that the Legion of the Dead lost few to the taint anywhere.  Not that that would even be good statistical data anyway because they don't really have a long life expectancy regardless.  Also, in the Dwarf commoner origin, the Warrior you drug (or Leske does) specifically says that the Darkspawn themselves are not even the worst of it and says the taint is what really is the risk.

And who would want to be a drifter unable to call anywhere home knowing that your civilization used to be great?  

Ever read The Stolen Throne? They spend a while(a month or more if I recall) down there and get nothing.

I would. Perfect honesty. A typical name for my characters is "Nomad." I thought the Migrant Fleet would be cooler than settling back on Rannoch. It provides a sense of unity knowing that you have to rely on each other to the upmost.

[thats1evildude]

Yeah, Audacity guided Merrill on how to cleanse the shard. Learning blood magic was just part of the process.

[Auintus]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering Merrill never allowed Audacity to possess her for nearly ten years, I don't see the point. The fact that Marethari released Audacity suggests she may have been the target all along, since Merrill reveals she will never release Audacity.

She never planned to. I believe we've been over this. Merril would have gotten no further without Audacity's help and he wouldn't help her until he got what he wanted. And Merril was the one learning that Audacity was civil and helpful and reasonable, not Marethari.

[Auintus]

hhh89 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Fifty sovereigns is a lot of cash, but it's hardly a king's ransom. Hawke could probably have found better accomodations with that money, but going on the expedition set him and his family up for life.

My main goal for finding money and the noble's title was to protect Bethany. And yeah, making Leandra's life a little better after losing Carver.

Or yourself, if you're a mage.

[LobselVith8]

Auintus wrote...

Hawke forced that threat on no one. Merril is consorting with a demon not far from the Dalish camp.

Merrill spoke to Audacity once to learn blood magic.

Auintus wrote...

No, Merril spoke to Audacity to cleanse the shard. He's the only reason she got as far as she did.

Incorrect. She studied the lore and extrapolated information from the shard.

[Auintus]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill was trying to help the Dalish, who lost virtually everything in the fall of the Dales. Her goal required time and effort. The Eluvian may have changed everything for them.

And if her work had consumed her entirely? They would be no better off and a First would have worn herself to death for nothing. I'd rather keep a life than risk it for the possibility of a miracle.

[The Elder King]

Auintus wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Fifty sovereigns is a lot of cash, but it's hardly a king's ransom. Hawke could probably have found better accomodations with that money, but going on the expedition set him and his family up for life.

My main goal for finding money and the noble's title was to protect Bethany. And yeah, making Leandra's life a little better after losing Carver.

Or yourself, if you're a mage.

Yes, though I was talking about my main Hawke, which isn't a mage.

[Xilizhra]

Auintus wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill was trying to help the Dalish, who lost virtually everything in the fall of the Dales. Her goal required time and effort. The Eluvian may have changed everything for them.

And if her work had consumed her entirely? They would be no better off and a First would have worn herself to death for nothing. I'd rather keep a life than risk it for the possibility of a miracle.

Her life was never in danger in my playthrough, aside from at the very end. While living with me, I could ensure that she'd come to no harm in that manner.

[Auintus]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Auintus wrote...

Hawke forced that threat on no one. Merril is consorting with a demon not far from the Dalish camp.

Merrill spoke to Audacity once to learn blood magic.

Auintus wrote...

No, Merril spoke to Audacity to cleanse the shard. He's the only reason she got as far as she did.

Incorrect. She studied the lore and extrapolated information from the shard.

She spoke with him to cleanse the shard. I refuse to believe that was a single short meeting.

What lore? She wouldn't be allowed in the Circle's library and all elvish lore was back with her clan. There wouldn't be a whole lot she could do except talk to someone old enough to remember Arlathan, Audacity.

[LobselVith8]

Auintus wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering Merrill never allowed Audacity to possess her for nearly ten years, I don't see the point. The fact that Marethari released Audacity suggests she may have been the target all along, since Merrill reveals she will never release Audacity.

She never planned to. I believe we've been over this. Merril would have gotten no further without Audacity's help and he wouldn't help her until he got what he wanted. And Merril was the one learning that Audacity was civil and helpful and reasonable, not Marethari.

You realize she's kidding when she says that to Anders? She seriously chastises him (on Friendship) that there's no such thing as a good spirit, and that all spirits are dangerous (after Dissent).

And the writers already addressed Merrill was working from lore and information she extrapolated from the shard; repeating incorrect information isn't going to change the fact it's incorrect.

[Auintus]

Xilizhra wrote...

Her life was never in danger in my playthrough, aside from at the very end. While living with me, I could ensure that she'd come to no harm in that manner.

When she constantly wanders off to work on the Eluvian? I've said before, obsession. It drove her from her clan, you think that you could have done better?

[silentassassin264]

Auintus wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I never recall seeing that the Legion of the Dead lost few to the taint anywhere.  Not that that would even be good statistical data anyway because they don't really have a long life expectancy regardless.  Also, in the Dwarf commoner origin, the Warrior you drug (or Leske does) specifically says that the Darkspawn themselves are not even the worst of it and says the taint is what really is the risk.

And who would want to be a drifter unable to call anywhere home knowing that your civilization used to be great?  

Ever read The Stolen Throne? They spend a while(a month or more if I recall) down there and get nothing.

I would. Perfect honesty. A typical name for my characters is "Nomad." I thought the Migrant Fleet would be cooler than settling back on Rannoch. It provides a sense of unity knowing that you have to rely on each other to the upmost.

Nope, never read Stolen Throne.  I don't use the books for lore anyway.  They can't seem to keep things straight like the obvious one with Wardens turning into Darkspawn and stuff.  And regardless, that still wouldn't prove anything.  That is like saying that playing Russian Roulette is not dangerous because you managed "win" every time you played it.  

And while you may think the migrant fleet is cool, the Quarians obviously did not as they tried to take back Rannoch.  Being a second class citizen everywhere you go and generally treated like garbage unless you are in an aging overcrowded ship does not really have much appeal to me...or the Quarians...or the Dalish.