2177 réponses à ce sujet

[Auintus]

CodyMelch wrote...

And now I am bringing it back .

If the mirror is capable of helping the Dalish move forward and advance then why not?

We've been over this: the price, everything it does to Merril.

[Xilizhra]

Auintus wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

And now I am bringing it back .

If the mirror is capable of helping the Dalish move forward and advance then why not?

We've been over this: the price, everything it does to Merril.

Which is, so far as I can see at least in my own playthrough, not much.

[Auintus]

silentassassin264 wrote...

I don't buy it.  After the fall of Rome we had the Dark Ages in Europe with feudal lords fighting to see who would rise from the ashes.  Catholic monks/scholars recorded most of what was preserved from classical Greece and Rome about math and science, some engineering, etc. etc.  Because of them, when the Dark Ages ended, we more or less went straight into the Renaissance.  If the classical lore was lost and we just decided to start all over again with the conclusion of the dark ages, we would probably be only slightly past the fall of Rome in tech right now...unless the Arabs who were in a golden age conquered all of Europe and force enlightened them.  

And half of the stuff that they dug up was wrong. They advanced by moving past it . Yes, the past was an enormous stepping stone, but it wasn't the end, it wasn't the solution.

[Auintus]

BlueMagitek wrote...

I would think there is some dedication in ingesting something potentially deadly or addicting (Reaver, Templar) or dedicating a way to unlock your anger or valor (Berserker, Champion).  Unless you're, you know, Chaotic.  But then I expect you to, you know, do a bunch of random things as well.

Templar skills don't require lyrium, though you are correct about the rest. However, Oghren explains that berkerker is control of rage, which doesn't require an explicitly angry individual. Beyond that, I am seeing your point.

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

If you're a blood mage, every time someoen mentions your name they should spit in digsust.
A pox on you and your name for ages to come.

I love you, too.[/sarcasm]
Honestly, no weapon is anything less than lethal. It is how one is employed that determines its good.

[Auintus]

Xilizhra wrote...
Which is, so far as I can see at least in my own playthrough, not much.

You should do some reading on psychology. It's fascinating stuff. Also, it points out that someone else making sure you eat is unhealthy. She is fixated on the thing for almost the entire duration of the game. That is not a healthy interest.

[Medhia Nox]

@Auintus: That is duplicitous in the extreme.

Please tell me you're aware of how Blood Magic is not the same as just - "a sword" or even "fireball".

===

This is exactly why the PC should NEVER have been given Blood Magic.

People believe that the PC is how Blood Magic works with all other mages.

It's called PLOT ARMOR.

You want to know what Blood Magic does? Avernus and Uldred - two mages easily more powerful than either Hawke or The Warden - are both destroyed by it and the demons who literally laugh in (Avernus') face for using it.

===

Honestly - I'm not even going to argue it - Bioware made a mistake in misrepresenting Blood Magic.

It does something totally different to every NPC it comes into contact with - than it does to the Main Protagonist.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:24 .

[Auintus]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Auintus: That is duplicitous in the extreme.

Please tell me you're aware of how Blood Magic is not the same as just - "a sword" or even "fireball".

===

This is exactly why the PC should NEVER have been given Blood Magic.

People believe that the PC is how Blood Magic works with all other mages.

It's called PLOT ARMOR.

You want to know what Blood Magic does? Avernus and Uldred - two mages easily more powerful than either Hawke or The Warden - are both destroyed by it and the demons who literally laugh in (Avernus') face for using it.

===

Honestly - I'm not even going to argue it - Bioware made a mistake in misrepresenting Blood Magic.

It does something totally different to every NPC it comes into contact with - than it does to the Main Protagonist.

I am aware. I'm also aware of the fact that it is merely a tool, one that served Avernus quite well, and one far more powerful than a fireball or a sword. That does not mean that it is not a tool, that does not mean that it cannot be controlled.
Avernus isn't destroyed by blood magic and Uldred already had his ego going for him.
Jowan didn't go completely insane. He is exactly the same person he was before: well-intentioned, but not the brightest. Blood magic changed nothing.

[Xilizhra]

It does something totally different to every NPC it comes into contact with - than it does to the Main Protagonist.

Merrill handles it just fine. All that matters is what's done with it.

You should do some reading on psychology. It's fascinating stuff. Also, it points out that someone else making sure you eat is unhealthy. She is fixated on the thing for almost the entire duration of the game. That is not a healthy interest.

And rivalry helps not at all.

[Auintus]

Xilizhra wrote...

It does something totally different to every NPC it comes into contact with - than it does to the Main Protagonist.

Merrill handles it just fine. All that matters is what's done with it.

You should do some reading on psychology. It's fascinating stuff. Also, it points out that someone else making sure you eat is unhealthy. She is fixated on the thing for almost the entire duration of the game. That is not a healthy interest.

And rivalry helps not at all.

Well at least we agree on the blood magic issue.

No, it doesn't. Which should say something to the depths of that obsession, if she won't listen to basically her only friends in the human world.

[Medhia Nox]

@Auintus: As I said - I'm not going to argue the point.

Even the best blood mage in DA so far - has been completely and utterly self-serving.

Hardly an endorsement for me.

[Eludajae]

This was discussed at many of the Cons, they decided and I think correctly, that when a player chose blood magic they should not have a random encounter hitting them with templars trying to kill them continuously. However, if they revamp the blood magic to give something far more impressive than in DA2 I think you should get your very own little team of Chantry hunters hounding you yes, but not just that, I think you should also get a Tevinter Mage trying to become even more dark. In essence I am hoping there are two paths for bloodmages, one that uses it to empower their other magics, and a darker path dealing with demons.

[Xilizhra]

No, it doesn't. Which should say something to the depths of that obsession, if she won't listen to basically her only friends in the human world.

Rivalhawke is not a friend.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
Which is, so far as I can see at least in my own playthrough, not much.

You mean, other than how her obsessive drive to do this damages her entire clan? Marethari got played by the demon - but the demon did that because it played Merril too. He used Merril (IMO) as a means to get to Marethari, and Merril doesn't get to wave off responsibility for that.

[Xilizhra]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Which is, so far as I can see at least in my own playthrough, not much.

You mean, other than how her obsessive drive to do this damages her entire clan? Marethari got played by the demon - but the demon did that because it played Merril too. He used Merril (IMO) as a means to get to Marethari, and Merril doesn't get to wave off responsibility for that.

The way I see it, it tried to use Merrill, but found Merrill incorruptible, so switched focus to Marethari (who was, after all, on Sundermount for seven years while Merrill was in Kirkwall). The only actual damage Merrill did was to Marethari's ego, and I don't think that can really be called Merrill's fault.

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, what I would do is talk to the DM about how it makes no sense. If I really wanted to be a hexblade, which is kind of terrible in any case.

That's just how the class is.  Are you going to argue that Druid who goes around teaching druidic shouldn't be cast out of his order and lose his powers next?  Ridiculous.

Auintus wrote...

Templar skills don't require lyrium,
though you are correct about the rest. However, Oghren explains that
berkerker is control of rage, which doesn't require an explicitly angry
individual. Beyond that, I am seeing your point.

Yes, but you need anger to utilize it.  If you're a well adjusted individual whoh is pretty chill most of the time, how can you take a specialization that requires anger to fuel it??

[Cody]

Auintus wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

And now I am bringing it back .

If the mirror is capable of helping the Dalish move forward and advance then why not?

We've been over this: the price, everything it does to Merril.

I am beginning to see your point about Merril being obsessed ove the mirror. That her want to help her clan proceed forward while using and element of their past drives her into obsession. However, I do not see pride demon having an easy time manipulating her into becoming possessed. Especially with her friends there to talk some sense into her.

And what Marithari did was still incredibly stuipid, and selfish since she indangered her entire clan with both allowing the thing to possess her AND her willing to be killed by Hawke and co since that would screw the clan over majorly as well. Combined with spreading fear and hate around the clan about Merril so that she would never be able to come back and be accepted by her clan even if she forgot about the mirror? That was fuc.ked up.

[LobselVith8]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Auintus: That is duplicitous in the extreme. 

Please tell me you're aware of how Blood Magic is not the same as just - "a sword" or even "fireball".

===

This is exactly why the PC should NEVER have been given Blood Magic. 

People believe that the PC is how Blood Magic works with all other mages. 

It's called PLOT ARMOR.

You want to know what Blood Magic does? Avernus and Uldred - two mages easily more powerful than either Hawke or The Warden - are both destroyed by it and the demons who literally laugh in (Avernus') face for using it.

===

Honestly - I'm not even going to argue it - Bioware made a mistake in misrepresenting Blood Magic. 

It does something totally different to every NPC it comes into contact with - than it does to the Main Protagonist.

You're conflating blood magic and demonology. Uldred was possessed because he summoned too many demons, and they overwhelmed him; the same happened with Avernus when he summoned more demons than he could control at Warden's Keep, and they were beyond his control.

Grey Warden mages use blood magic to give them an edge, which is no different for The Warden; it doesn't require plot armor. Merrill is an example of an apostate who doesn't abuse her abilities or become corrupted by her powers, no different than apostate Hawke or Alain.

It's not being misrepresented; it's not the Dark Side of the Force.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 26 octobre 2012 - 03:56 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Auintus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

If you're a blood mage, every time someoen mentions your name they should spit in digsust.
A pox on you and your name for ages to come.

I love you, too.[/sarcasm]
Honestly, no weapon is anything less than lethal. It is how one is employed that determines its good.

A wepon doesn't have aligment.
It just is.
And some weapons are too horrible for ANYONE to have. Like blood magic.

It's a no-no.

Would you trust me with it?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Auintus wrote...

Jowan didn't go completely insane. He is exactly the same person he was before: well-intentioned, but not the brightest. Blood magic changed nothing.

Jowan is a moron. In that sense it didn't change anything.

But if you expect him to turn into Uldred overnight, you are expectingtoo much. Give it time.
Corruption works slowly.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

No, it doesn't. Which should say something to the depths of that obsession, if she won't listen to basically her only friends in the human world.

Rivalhawke is not a friend.

He is. Rivalry is mis-labeled.
It is still friendship. Friendship with a disagreement on a major and important issue.

[Auintus]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Auintus: As I said - I'm not going to argue the point.

Even the best blood mage in DA so far - has been completely and utterly self-serving.

Hardly an endorsement for me.

Jowan's Intention. He's going out of his way to help people.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No, it doesn't. Which should say something to the depths of that obsession, if she won't listen to basically her only friends in the human world.

Rivalhawke is not a friend.

He is. Rivalry is mis-labeled.
It is still friendship. Friendship with a disagreement on a major and important issue.

Xil is addressing Rivalry Hawke's treatment of Merrill. She sees Hawke's rivalry with Merrill as emotionally abusive, if I recall correctly. I certainly see little point in Hawke opposing Merrill's goal of trying to help the People.

[Auintus]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Yes, but you need anger to utilize it.  If you're a well adjusted individual whoh is pretty chill most of the time, how can you take a specialization that requires anger to fuel it??

If you never feel anger, I don't think you are human. Most people jsut deal with it well. It doesn't mean it isn't there.

[TheJediSaint]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No, it doesn't. Which should say something to the depths of that obsession, if she won't listen to basically her only friends in the human world.

Rivalhawke is not a friend.

He is. Rivalry is mis-labeled.
It is still friendship. Friendship with a disagreement on a major and important issue.

Xil is addressing Rivalry Hawke's treatment of Merrill. She sees Hawke's rivalry with Merrill as emotionally abusive, if I recall correctly. I certainly see little point in Hawke opposing Merrill's goal of trying to help the People.

Oh boy, this argument again.

DIsagreeing with somone you care about is not emotially abusive.  Nor is trying to stop them from doing something you belive to be harmful.

Merrill's goal may be try to help her people.  But Hawke is under no obligation to think that the way she's going about it is a good idea.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 26 octobre 2012 - 05:24 .