2177 réponses à ce sujet

[Auintus]

CodyMelch wrote...

I am beginning to see your point about Merril being obsessed ove the mirror. That her want to help her clan proceed forward while using and element of their past drives her into obsession. However, I do not see pride demon having an easy time manipulating her into becoming possessed. Especially with her friends there to talk some sense into her.

And what Marithari did was still incredibly stuipid, and selfish since she indangered her entire clan with both allowing the thing to possess her AND her willing to be killed by Hawke and co since that would screw the clan over majorly as well. Combined with spreading fear and hate around the clan about Merril so that she would never be able to come back and be accepted by her clan even if she forgot about the mirror? That was fuc.ked up.

It was a good goal and she really had good intentions, she just took it too far.

I think selfish is probably the wrong word, but valuing Merril over the entire clan is defiately a poor choice.

[TheJediSaint]

Auintus wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Yes, but you need anger to utilize it.  If you're a well adjusted individual whoh is pretty chill most of the time, how can you take a specialization that requires anger to fuel it??

If you never feel anger, I don't think you are human. Most people jsut deal with it well. It doesn't mean it isn't there.

I like to think of bezerkers as people who like to share their feelings with others. 

[Xilizhra]

DIsagreeing with somone you care about is not emotially abusive. Nor is trying to stop them from doing something you belive to be harmful.

Mostly it's the rivalry "romance" that's abusive.

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

A wepon doesn't have aligment.
It just is.
And some weapons are too horrible for ANYONE to have. Like blood magic.

It's a no-no.

Would you trust me with it?

The nuclear bomb is a terrible weapon. The fact remains that it can be directed.

Not immediately. If you prove that you had good intentions, then yes. And that is exactly the reaction I expect from NPCs. Most of them anyway.

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Jowan is a moron. In that sense it didn't change anything.

But if you expect him to turn into Uldred overnight, you are expectingtoo much. Give it time.
Corruption works slowly.

He's not all that, though he certainly isn't the brightest.

You may have a point there. Even Jowan's Intention is set, at most, a year after his first use of blood magic. He may change, though I like to hope he learned his lesson early.

[TheJediSaint]

Xilizhra wrote...

DIsagreeing with somone you care about is not emotially abusive. Nor is trying to stop them from doing something you belive to be harmful.

Mostly it's the rivalry "romance" that's abusive.

Except, it isn't.   The Rivarly romance centers around Hawke trying to save Merrill from herself, and Merrill realzing that and falling for him/her because of that.  That's not abuse.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Auintus wrote...

Jowan didn't go completely insane. He is exactly the same person he was before: well-intentioned, but not the brightest. Blood magic changed nothing.

Jowan is a moron. In that sense it didn't change anything.

But if you expect him to turn into Uldred overnight, you are expectingtoo much. Give it time.
Corruption works slowly.

If memory serves Gaider came right out and said that blood magic is not inherently corrupting. It's just that a lot of the stuff it can do appeals to people who are either corrupt or fast on the way, and non-corrupt mages tend to obey the templars and stay right the hell away from it.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 26 octobre 2012 - 05:44 .

[Xilizhra]

TheJediSaint wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

DIsagreeing with somone you care about is not emotially abusive. Nor is trying to stop them from doing something you belive to be harmful.

Mostly it's the rivalry "romance" that's abusive.

Except, it isn't.   The Rivarly romance centers around Hawke trying to save Merrill from herself, and Merrill realzing that and falling for him/her because of that.  That's not abuse.

It's Hawke trying to intellectually strangle Merrill into obedience.

[TheJediSaint]

Xilizhra wrote...

*snip*

It's Hawke trying to intellectually strangle Merrill into obedience.

That's a bit hyperbolic, as well as not true.  A rival Hawke is simply concerend that Merril is doing something dangerous (which she is) and is trying to get her to stop.  No stangling, intellecutal or otherwise, is involved.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 26 octobre 2012 - 05:52 .

[The Hierophant]

Xilizhra wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

DIsagreeing with somone you care about is not emotially abusive. Nor is trying to stop them from doing something you belive to be harmful.

Mostly it's the rivalry "romance" that's abusive.

Except, it isn't.   The Rivarly romance centers around Hawke trying to save Merrill from herself, and Merrill realzing that and falling for him/her because of that.  That's not abuse.

It's Hawke trying to intellectually strangle Merrill into obedience.

It's for the good of Kirkwall and Merrill by extension.

[Medhia Nox]

@The Hierophant: Stop oppressing Merrill with your morals and your intellect.

Merrill's a blood mage - she's lacking in either of those things.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Auintus wrote...
Not immediately.
If you prove that you had good intentions, then yes. And that is exactly the reaction I expect from NPCs. Most of them anyway.

Congratulations.
You are now dead. As if your town.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

He is. Rivalry is mis-labeled.
It is still friendship. Friendship with a disagreement on a major and important issue.

Xil is addressing Rivalry Hawke's treatment of Merrill. She sees Hawke's rivalry with Merrill as emotionally abusive, if I recall correctly. I certainly see little point in Hawke opposing Merrill's goal of trying to help the People.

Well, I'm sure Xil considers disagreeing with her a horrible abuse...

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Congratulations.
You are now dead. As is your town.

If you were deceptive enough to achieve it, congratulations. Meanwhile, everyone who trusted me is perfectly fine, because I'm a half-way decent human being.

Modifié par Auintus, 26 octobre 2012 - 07:18 .

[Terrorize69]

I hope that by picking blood magic, we get all "Renegade Shepard" and "Crazy Meredith" on people



Fancy red eyes for us blood mages

[BlueMagitek]

TheJediSaint wrote...
I like to think of bezerkers as people who like to share their feelings with others. 

But what about love? D=

Auintus wrote...

If you never feel anger, I don't think
you are human. Most people jsut deal with it well. It doesn't mean it
isn't there.

That's not the point. ~_~

[The Hierophant]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@The Hierophant: Stop oppressing Merrill with your morals and your intellect.

Merrill's a blood mage - she's lacking in either of those things.

You forgot common sense too.

[TheJediSaint]

The Hierophant wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@The Hierophant: Stop oppressing Merrill with your morals and your intellect.

Merrill's a blood mage - she's lacking in either of those things.

You forgot common sense too.

Well, by the end of the game, assumng you played your cards right, she does learn a thing or to.

Yay, character development!

[Cody]

The Hierophant wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

DIsagreeing with somone you care about is not emotially abusive. Nor is trying to stop them from doing something you belive to be harmful.

Mostly it's the rivalry "romance" that's abusive.

Except, it isn't.   The Rivarly romance centers around Hawke trying to save Merrill from herself, and Merrill realzing that and falling for him/her because of that.  That's not abuse.

It's Hawke trying to intellectually strangle Merrill into obedience.

It's for the good of Kirkwall and Merrill by extension.

How do you figure? It does not hve the taint, nothing seems to come out of the Eluvian unless it is tainted, as evident by Witch hunt. So your saying it is for the good of kirkwall because....? Oh right no reason at all.

Only one is somewhat danger is Merril, who had no intention of rteleasing a demon and if did would be put down or talked down from doing so by Hawke and co. So no it is not for the good of Merril or Kirkwall because it does not effect Kirkwall and really does not do a damn good for Merril either since she forgets about it at the end either way. Except on friendship romance she lets it go on her own initiative while on rivalry she is following orders and being an obedient women that follows her mans command.

The Hierophant wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@The Hierophant: Stop oppressing Merrill with your morals and your intellect.

Merrill's a blood mage - she's lacking in either of those things.

You forgot common sense too.

I find this hilarious. Obviously untrue but I suppose it's not that it is funny but the source it is coming from makes it funny.

Modifié par CodyMelch, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:13 .

[LobselVith8]

TheJediSaint wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xil is addressing Rivalry Hawke's treatment of Merrill. She sees Hawke's rivalry with Merrill as emotionally abusive, if I recall correctly. I certainly see little point in Hawke opposing Merrill's goal of trying to help the People.

Oh boy, this argument again.

DIsagreeing with somone you care about is not emotially abusive.  Nor is trying to stop them from doing something you belive to be harmful.

Considering that Hawke knows nothing about elven culture, about the Eluvian, and possibly about blood magic, I don't see how he's the authority who Merrill needs to capitulate to. Merrill is Dalish - the entire premise behind the People is for them to regain what they lost because of slavery and invasion - their culture, their language, their heritage, and their technology.

TheJediSaint wrote...

Merrill's goal may be try to help her people.  But Hawke is under no obligation to think that the way she's going about it is a good idea. 

It's a double standard. Hawke certainly has no problem engaging in dangerous missions or tasks that enable him to earn money or a fortune, such as going into the Deep Roads to purchase a mansion, but Merrill can't explore ancient elven technology that could benefit countless elves across the continent?

[Medhia Nox]

Sorry - the salvation of the elven peoples is not going to be magical artifacts.

But I'm sure their human overlords are overjoyed that elves like Merrill are wasting their time trying to get magical items working instead of instituting real reform.  I know I would be - it's a perfect excuse to slaughter dangerous dissident elves and take their new discoveries for myself.

I'm sure in a few games - some lazy, self-centered elf will be tired at how elves are being treated even though he never once lifted a hand to try anything like peaceful reform... and blow up a castle or something.

We'll call him Anderllas.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:17 .

[The Elder King]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

Merrill's goal may be try to help her people.  But Hawke is under no obligation to think that the way she's going about it is a good idea. 

It's a double standard. Hawke certainly has no problem engaging in dangerous missions or tasks that enable him to earn money or a fortune, such as going into the Deep Roads to purchase a mansion, but Merrill can't explore ancient elven technology that could benefit countless elves across the continent?

Hawke wasn't using blood magic and working with a demon to achieve his/her goal. TheJediSaint's stance toward thos thing could be negative, so his/her Hawke has all the reason to express the fact that he/she's against the method she's using.

[Dave of Canada]

He'll be an alcoholic city elf who is tired of the abuses and has taken a desire demon into himself to fight for elf rights, he goes to brothels and alongside the demon has unholy stamina which teaches all those female humans a lesson. Sometimes he teaches multiple at once.

After years of abuse, he'll eventually blow up some abandoned house located in the woods, hide the evidence that he was too rough with some human prostitutes and some elven ones (as he begins to lose control).

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:22 .

[The Elder King]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Sorry - the salvation of the elven peoples is not going to be magical artifacts.

But I'm sure their human overlords are overjoyed that elves like Merrill are wasting their time trying to get magical items working instead of instituting real reform.  I know I would be - it's a perfect excuse to slaughter dangerous dissident elves and take their new discoveries for myself.

I'm sure in a few games - some lazy, self-centered elf will be tired at how elves are being treated even though he never once lifted a hand to try anything like peaceful reform... and blow up a castle or something.

We'll call him Anderllas.

The dalish refuse to live under human's society. The only reform they'd approve is a land to claim as their own state.
The city elves accepted to live in human's society, so they should be treated in the same way as humans.

[LobselVith8]

The Hierophant wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's Hawke trying to intellectually strangle Merrill into obedience. 

It's for the good of Kirkwall and Merrill by extension. 

I don't see it that way. Merrill was an intelligent person who was dealing with culture shock in human society, and engaged in some dry humor from time to time. She used magic and blood magic proficiently for several years as she attempted to reconstruct an Eluvian that she believed could benefit the People. Perhaps it may not have paid off, but I don't see why people condemn Merrill for pursuing a path that could have benefited the elves.

Merrill seems like a stronger person on Friendship, especially when you contrast Merrill's meek conversation with Anders on Rivalry (where she tells Anders he's scaring her) as opposed to what she says in Friendship as a confident woman:

Merrill: Are you all right?

Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right?

Merrill: I'm sorry.

Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls!

Merrill: Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:24 .