Aller au contenu

Photo

Blood Magic. Great power should come with great price


2177 réponses à ce sujet

#2026
TheJediSaint

TheJediSaint
  • Members
  • 6 637 messages

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Okay, but the deaths to the taint are still irrelevant to whether or not Hawke should intervene.

Besides, she seems to have some idea how to determine how it works just by investigating magically.


The taint is perfectly relevent in regards to Hawke.  He/she had to flee Ferelden in order to escape a horde of tainted monsters.  Which resulted in th death of either Carver,or Bethany, I may add.

And even though Merril may believe that she cleansed the taint from the mirror, there's no guarentee that she succeeded.   And Hawke is perfetly entited to doubt that claim should the player choose.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 26 octobre 2012 - 10:52 .


#2027
Cody

Cody
  • Members
  • 759 messages

The Hierophant wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

How do you figure? It does not hve the taint, nothing seems to come out of the Eluvian unless it is tainted, as evident by Witch hunt. So your saying it is for the good of kirkwall because....? Oh right no reason at all.

Only one is somewhat danger is Merril, who had no intention of rteleasing a demon and if did would be put down or talked down from doing so by Hawke and co. So no it is not for the good of Merril or Kirkwall because it does not effect Kirkwall and really does not do a damn good for Merril either since she forgets about it at the end either way. Except on friendship romance she lets it go on her own initiative while on rivalry she is following orders and being an obedient women that follows her mans command.

The mirror could lead to anywhere as it's not mentioned that all Eluvians lead to a single point. For all anyone knows the Eluvian could have teleported Merrill up the backside of a broodmother, opening Kirkwall up to a darkspawn invasion

CodyMelch wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@The Hierophant: Stop oppressing Merrill with your morals and your intellect.

Merrill's a blood mage - she's lacking in either of those things.


You forgot common sense too.


I find this hilarious. Obviously untrue but I suppose it's not that it is funny but the source it is coming from makes it funny.

You forget that she takes Wryme's vague proposition at face value with no hesitation on her part. So much for her using common sense.


This tired argument again? Brood mother is dead by that time. And the taint is removed. It will lead most likely to where morrigan went or back to where the brood mother went.

And Merril wasn't the only one to take the offer. All the party members would take each offer given to them by the demons.

Modifié par CodyMelch, 26 octobre 2012 - 10:57 .


#2028
Cody

Cody
  • Members
  • 759 messages

TheJediSaint wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Okay, but the deaths to the taint are still irrelevant to whether or not Hawke should intervene.

Besides, she seems to have some idea how to determine how it works just by investigating magically.


The taint is perfectly relevent in regards to Hawke.  He/she had to flee Ferelden in order to escape a horde of tainted monsters.  Which resulted in th death of either Carver,or Bethany, I may add.

And even though Merril may believe that she cleansed the taint from the mirror, there's no guarentee that she succeeded.   And Hawke is perfetly entited to doubt that claim should the player choose.


This has been dealt with already. If the mirror was still tainted she would have been infected by it. As the shards were capable of infecting those who come near it immediatly. This has already been said. Hunters sent out to retrieve the shards found themselves tainted. If the taint was not removed Merril would already be a ghoul.

#2029
Terrorize69

Terrorize69
  • Members
  • 2 665 messages

CodyMelch wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

How do you figure? It does not hve the taint, nothing seems to come out of the Eluvian unless it is tainted, as evident by Witch hunt. So your saying it is for the good of kirkwall because....? Oh right no reason at all.

Only one is somewhat danger is Merril, who had no intention of rteleasing a demon and if did would be put down or talked down from doing so by Hawke and co. So no it is not for the good of Merril or Kirkwall because it does not effect Kirkwall and really does not do a damn good for Merril either since she forgets about it at the end either way. Except on friendship romance she lets it go on her own initiative while on rivalry she is following orders and being an obedient women that follows her mans command.

The mirror could lead to anywhere as it's not mentioned that all Eluvians lead to a single point. For all anyone knows the Eluvian could have teleported Merrill up the backside of a broodmother, opening Kirkwall up to a darkspawn invasion

CodyMelch wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@The Hierophant: Stop oppressing Merrill with your morals and your intellect.

Merrill's a blood mage - she's lacking in either of those things.


You forgot common sense too.


I find this hilarious. Obviously untrue but I suppose it's not that it is funny but the source it is coming from makes it funny.

You forget that she takes Wryme's vague proposition at face value with no hesitation on her part. So much for her using common sense.


This tired argument again? Brood mother is dead by that time. And the taint is removed. It will lead most likely to where morrigan went or back to where the brood mother went.

And Merril wasn't the only one to take the offer. All the party members would take each offer given to them by the demons.




And in Merrills defence, atleast it's not a total betrayal when Merrill does it, shes not going against her beliefs by making a deal with demons, unlike others.

And even then the demon uses her good side to make the deal with, by promising the power to help her people.

Not like getting power for revenge on Tevinter or... "I like big boats, I cannot lie"

#2030
The Hierophant

The Hierophant
  • Members
  • 6 909 messages

The Hierophant wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

I find this hilarious. Obviously untrue but I suppose it's not that it is funny but the source it is coming from makes it funny.

You forget that she takes Wryme's vague proposition at face value with no hesitation on her part. So much for her using common sense.


This tired argument again? Brood mother is dead by that time. And the taint is removed. It will lead most likely to where morrigan went or back to where the brood mother went.

Merrill  has no way of knowing where the eluvian's intended destination will be, and no where in the lore does it say that all eluvians are automatically attuned to one focal point.

And Merril wasn't the only one to take the offer. All the party members would take each offer given to them by the demons.


Being a bloodmage who's powers specifically increases her chances of contact with demons, and someone who should know the temptations of demons means that she should have shown reservation as opposed to mundanes who know no better.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 26 octobre 2012 - 11:17 .


#2031
Cody

Cody
  • Members
  • 759 messages

The Hierophant wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

I find this hilarious. Obviously untrue but I suppose it's not that it is funny but the source it is coming from makes it funny.

You forget that she takes Wryme's vague proposition at face value with no hesitation on her part. So much for her using common sense.


This tired argument again? Brood mother is dead by that time. And the taint is removed. It will lead most likely to where morrigan went or back to where the brood mother went.

Merrill  has no way of knowing where the eluvian's intended destination will be, and no where in the lore does it say that all eluvians are automatically attuned to one focal point.

And Merril wasn't the only one to take the offer. All the party members would take each offer given to them by the demons.


Being a bloodmage who's powers specifically increases her chances of contact with demons, and someone who should know the temptations of demons means that she should have shown reservation as opposed to mundanes who know no better.


That depends. If she learns how to activate it then she will most likely learn how to deactivate it as well(or destroy it at a quick sec) and you can easily see whats on the otherside before going in, like what Tamlen did. So it is safe to assume that with it being capable of being switched off at a moments noticed or destroyed, then that would lessen the chance of danger significantly.

I will not argue with your second point though. You can say that her obsession with helping her clan would lead her to her downfall in that end. However, it is fair to assume that their minds(the companions in general i am refering to) were being influenced by the demons as well since they were in their domain. Few of the party members refer to not really thinking clearly. And from what we have seen from Sloth back in DA:O that is a likely chance of them being influenced to side with the demons and being manipulated by their wants.

#2032
The Hierophant

The Hierophant
  • Members
  • 6 909 messages
Meh there's nothing to debate against as everything has been discussed to hell and back already.

#2033
Cody

Cody
  • Members
  • 759 messages
Indard. Twas fun to debate with/against you :P.

#2034
dragonflight288

dragonflight288
  • Members
  • 8 852 messages
And I missed it all! Darn! Gone for a few days...or weeks, because of work and big college assignments and everything exciting comes and goes. Dang!

#2035
TheJediSaint

TheJediSaint
  • Members
  • 6 637 messages

dragonflight288 wrote...

And I missed it all! Darn! Gone for a few days...or weeks, because of work and big college assignments and everything exciting comes and goes. Dang!


Eh, lots of words were posted for minimal gain.   BSN is the Somme of message boards.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 27 octobre 2012 - 04:08 .


#2036
silentassassin264

silentassassin264
  • Members
  • 2 493 messages

dragonflight288 wrote...

And I missed it all! Darn! Gone for a few days...or weeks, because of work and big college assignments and everything exciting comes and goes. Dang!

Say something so we can start all over again.  You can never have enough debate.

#2037
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 987 messages

And even though Merril may believe that she cleansed the taint from the mirror, there's no guarentee that she succeeded. And Hawke is perfetly entited to doubt that claim should the player choose.


Actually, there is evidence.

Anders, a Grey Warden, does not say anything about the Taint being in the Mirror when he's two feet away from it. He is opposed to that project and if he could sense it, he would tell Hawke right away.

Duncan was able to sense the taint in the mirror. That Anders cannot is proof that the shard was successfully cleansed.

Furthermore, Merrill used blood magic to amplify the healing magic she already knew and was taught by Marethari. In its unamplified state, it was proven to combat the Taint temporarily. In its amplified state, the shard/mirror was Taintless for seven years.

Whereas when other Elves began to explore the ruins Tamlen found 2.5 years after the Blight, they were tainted immediately.

I will not argue with your second point though. You can say that her obsession with helping her clan would lead her to her downfall in that end. However, it is fair to assume that their minds(the companions in general i am refering to) were being influenced by the demons as well since they were in their domain. Few of the party members refer to not really thinking clearly. And from what we have seen from Sloth back in DA:O that is a likely chance of them being influenced to side with the demons and being manipulated by their wants


In the Fade, Demons of Desire and Pride are capable of mind control as they're at their most powerful. The codex entries on Demons tells us this, and that quest cemented that those two Demons performed mind control over the companions' minds.

I don't think it'd be wrong to say that was a learning experience for Merrill where her pride began to diminish greatly afterwards. As we see in Act 3, her pride has indeed gone down a great deal. So I'd say that her mind being controlled, while not something we can hold against her because Demons are at their most powerful in the Fade, did affect her certainly in a beneficial way.

Not that Audacity posed that same threat to her. Audacity wasn't that dangerous when he was trapped in the statue. All he was capable of were a few things: weaving illusions to people in front of him, whispering to people which grew louder the closer they got to him, and manipulating people based on how close they were to him -- as the short story tells us his diminished powers only work up to a certain distance.

It's my belief that Marethari was his true target all along and he manipulated her to free him, using Merrill's voluntary exile to drive a bigger wedge between the two of them. This is supported by dev comments stating that Demons seek to possess ideally powerful Mages who hold influence over people, but aren't adverse to settling for the latter -- as we see with Connor.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 octobre 2012 - 07:19 .


#2038
Cody

Cody
  • Members
  • 759 messages
That would also explain as to why Marithari would spread fear and hate towards merril around the clan. She was manipulated by audacity to do so. To further drive the wedge between them. To make Marithari worry more and more, to make Marithari believe there was such a great danger, that Merril was in such great danger and it manipulates Mari into thinking that the only way to make sure that the it did not hurt Merril was to allow it to possess her.

Mari was the first one to discover it after all. She heard it first before Merril did and led her up to it. 

Modifié par CodyMelch, 27 octobre 2012 - 05:16 .


#2039
BlueMagitek

BlueMagitek
  • Members
  • 3 583 messages

dragonflight288 wrote...

And I missed it all! Darn! Gone for a few days...or weeks, because of work and big college assignments and everything exciting comes and goes. Dang!


I have those things too and I was here. Step it up. :P

If you'd like, we can repeat some of it? 

Blood Mages should be distrusted amongst the party. 

#2040
KainD

KainD
  • Members
  • 8 624 messages

BlueMagitek wrote...

Blood Mages should be distrusted amongst the party. 


Subjective, some members of the party might like that, and might even be blood mages themselves. 

#2041
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

BlueMagitek wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

And I missed it all! Darn! Gone for a few days...or weeks, because of work and big college assignments and everything exciting comes and goes. Dang!


I have those things too and I was here. Step it up. :P

If you'd like, we can repeat some of it? 

Blood Mages should be distrusted amongst the party. 


I'm sure Cullen and Cassandra would distrust a blood mage protagonist. Then again, I'm pretty sure any pro-Chantry companion would distrust a mage who wanted to live on their own terms, outside the Chantry.

#2042
BlueMagitek

BlueMagitek
  • Members
  • 3 583 messages

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm sure Cullen and Cassandra would distrust a blood mage protagonist. Then again, I'm pretty sure any pro-Chantry companion would distrust a mage who wanted to live on their own terms, outside the Chantry.


An apostate is one thing, a maleficar is quite another. 

Heck, they put up with Isolationists in the Circle system, who do want to live away from everyone.  And the Lucrosians and Libertarians.  One of which wants wealth and political power for mages and the other to get away from the Chantry altogether.  And these are allowed Fraternities.  So... I don't quite think so?

#2043
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

BlueMagitek wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm sure Cullen and Cassandra would distrust a blood mage protagonist. Then again, I'm pretty sure any pro-Chantry companion would distrust a mage who wanted to live on their own terms, outside the Chantry.


An apostate is one thing, a maleficar is quite another. 

Heck, they put up with Isolationists in the Circle system, who do want to live away from everyone.  And the Lucrosians and Libertarians.  One of which wants wealth and political power for mages and the other to get away from the Chantry altogether.  And these are allowed Fraternities.  So... I don't quite think so?


You don't think a templar or Seeker companion would distrust a mage protagonist who disagreed with the Chantry controlled Circles? Although I'm not certain why a pro-mage apostate who believes in autonomy would work with a Seeker or a templar in the first place.

#2044
BlueMagitek

BlueMagitek
  • Members
  • 3 583 messages

LobselVith8 wrote...

You don't think a templar or Seeker companion would distrust a mage protagonist who disagreed with the Chantry controlled Circles? Although I'm not certain why a pro-mage apostate who believes in autonomy would work with a Seeker or a templar in the first place.


Uh, Templar have worked with Libertarians before, most of the major ones that we have seen just have a nasty habit of becoming abominations.  Like Uldred and Anders.  You're forgetting the Isolationists again.

And how are we sure the PC is going to be an apostate? 

#2045
Riverdaleswhiteflash

Riverdaleswhiteflash
  • Members
  • 7 914 messages

BlueMagitek wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm sure Cullen and Cassandra would distrust a blood mage protagonist. Then again, I'm pretty sure any pro-Chantry companion would distrust a mage who wanted to live on their own terms, outside the Chantry.


An apostate is one thing, a maleficar is quite another. 

Heck, they put up with Isolationists in the Circle system, who do want to live away from everyone.  And the Lucrosians and Libertarians.  One of which wants wealth and political power for mages and the other to get away from the Chantry altogether.  And these are allowed Fraternities.  So... I don't quite think so?


I don't remember where I heard this, but I thought the Libertarians were allowed to congregate so that the Chantry knew who to keep an eye on.

#2046
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

BlueMagitek wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You don't think a templar or Seeker companion would distrust a mage protagonist who disagreed with the Chantry controlled Circles? Although I'm not certain why a pro-mage apostate who believes in autonomy would work with a Seeker or a templar in the first place. 


Uh, Templar have worked with Libertarians before, most of the major ones that we have seen just have a nasty habit of becoming abominations.  Like Uldred and Anders.  You're forgetting the Isolationists again.


Except there is now a war between mages and templars, and the mage protagonist may be able to side with the mages against the templars.

BlueMagitek wrote...

And how are we sure the PC is going to be an apostate? 


Considering the Circles broke free, I'm simpy putting forth a hypothetical.

#2047
BlueMagitek

BlueMagitek
  • Members
  • 3 583 messages

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

I don't remember where I
heard this, but I thought the Libertarians were allowed to congregate so
that the Chantry knew who to keep an eye on.


That would be wonderfully clever, and I like the idea behind it, but I don't remember that. 

And even if it was true, they still let Uldred go out to serve Ferelden (if I recall correctly), and he was probably like, head of that Fraternity.

LobselVith8 wrote...

Except there is now a war between mages and templars, and the mage protagonist may be able to side with the mages against the templars.

Considering the Circles broke free, I'm simpy putting forth a hypothetical.


But they were still allowed in the first place, when there was always a threat of blood magic and demonology manipulation to accomplish the goal.  So just being a mage probably wouldn't be too much of a problem for a Seeker or a Templar, assuming you are assigned to work with them or vice versa.

I'm a bit confused as to why the Inquisition would call Bob the Apostate in, who the first Inquisition would have killed, to solve their problems. >.>

#2048
Riverdaleswhiteflash

Riverdaleswhiteflash
  • Members
  • 7 914 messages

BlueMagitek wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

I don't remember where I
heard this, but I thought the Libertarians were allowed to congregate so
that the Chantry knew who to keep an eye on.


That would be wonderfully clever, and I like the idea behind it, but I don't remember that. 

And even if it was true, they still let Uldred go out to serve Ferelden (if I recall correctly), and he was probably like, head of that Fraternity.


dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Resolutionists

As for Uldred, the army needed power, and power he had. Of course they probably had reservations about it, but they were already kind of shafting the army for mages.

Or, maybe they sent him hoping the spawn would get him.

LobselVith8 wrote...

Except there is now a war between mages and templars, and the mage protagonist may be able to side with the mages against the templars.

Considering the Circles broke free, I'm simpy putting forth a hypothetical.


But they were still allowed in the first place, when there was always a threat of blood magic and demonology manipulation to accomplish the goal.  So just being a mage probably wouldn't be too much of a problem for a Seeker or a Templar, assuming you are assigned to work with them or vice versa.

I'm a bit confused as to why the Inquisition would call Bob the Apostate in, who the first Inquisition would have killed, to solve their problems. >.>



One: Gaider has explicitly stated that you are not required to side with the Chantry. So if you are the head of the Inquisition, as I understood the leaked info to state, that suddenly puts a much weirder spin on things, doesn't it? Two: Neccesity. I would be surprised if you start out as an Inquisitor. I'd wager you start out as just an ordinary citizen, or maybe a merc the Inquisition brought in, and you show yourself to be a competent fighter. They need this, so they bring you into the fold.

#2049
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 987 messages

As for Uldred, the army needed power, and power he had. Of course they probably had reservations about it, but they were already kind of shafting the army for mages.

Or, maybe they sent him hoping the spawn would get him.


Prior to being sent to Ostagar, he had been "helping" the Templars and Mages root out maleficarum. No doubt he led some Mages to learning blood magic so he could sell them out, thus raising his own status within the Circle and keeping his own status as a maleficar hidden.

Indeed, game evidence supports this.

#2050
silentassassin264

silentassassin264
  • Members
  • 2 493 messages

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

One: Gaider has explicitly stated that you are not required to side with the Chantry. So if you are the head of the Inquisition, as I understood the leaked info to state, that suddenly puts a much weirder spin on things, doesn't it? Two: Neccesity. I would be surprised if you start out as an Inquisitor. I'd wager you start out as just an ordinary citizen, or maybe a merc the Inquisition brought in, and you show yourself to be a competent fighter. They need this, so they bring you into the fold.

And Casey Hudson explicitly said there wouldn't be A,B, or C endings.  I'll believe it when I see it.