2177 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

Actually, you can't. The fluff makes clear that abominations are, on average, much more powerful than the ones the Wardens face. My speculation was on how much more on average.

The fluff says no such thing about "average" abominations, just saying that there are some powerful ones.

Does a Gaider post count as fluff? Because he heavily implies that abominations are more dangerous than either the mage or the demon put together, due to having both their magic and the mage's. Compare this to the basically disposable cannon fodder that they are in-game.

Because he created more possessed creatures. That is one of the dangers I mentioned. Besides, Connor was still ridiculously broken compared to, say Ser Perth. The Redcliffe thing would have ended even worse if the Warden wasn't there.

Yes, and it wouldn't have happened if the Circle wasn't so bad that Isolde felt the need to keep Connor out of it.

That's not the current point, and only a small bit of Isolde's motivation.

Nuclear explosions are rare because we know how to prevent them. Abominations are the same way.

And because most demons are weak.

Beside the point, and doesn't help your case for abolishing the Harrowing.

If I were in charge of a mage revolution, the only thing I'd drop would be the religion. Everything else is if nothing else practical, it's just the internalization of religiously based stigmas that doesn't help. That tranquil whose Journal came up might have been fine without the horror stories he got from his grandmother, combined with the Chantry teaching that there's something innately sinful about magic just because it has the power to do these horrible things. I'd even keep the Templars, or at least such as could be made to do their jobs reasonably.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2012 - 02:56 .

[Xilizhra]

Does a Gaider post count as fluff? Because he heavily implies that abominations are more dangerous than either the mage or the demon put together, due to having both their magic and the mage's. Compare this to the basically disposable cannon fodder that they are in-game.

I'm going to cast great doubt on that unless it's actually shown.

Beside the point, and doesn't help your case for abolishing the Harrowing.

Not abolishing, but making it safer.

If I were in charge of a mage revolution, the only thing I'd drop would be the religion. Everything else is if nothing else practical, it's just the internalization of religiously based stigmas that doesn't help. That tranquil whose Journal came up might have been fine without the horror stories he got from his grandmother, combined with the Chantry teaching that there's something innately sinful about magic just because it has the power to do these horrible things. I'd even keep the Templars, or at least such as could be made to do their jobs reasonably.

I'm ending anything and everything to do with the current Templar Order and ensuring they can never again find similar positions anywhere. Those who are still alive, at any rate. If anything similar is required in the future, I'll find new people.

[LobselVith8]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

But after the first failure they'll know there's someone to catch them if they fall as it where or they'll assume they're somehow immune to demons and thus grow cocky. 

Why not simply properly train the mage to be wary about these specific dangers, instead of keeping them in the dark to such an extent that some think failed apprentices are killed and fed to other Circle mages (via "The Harrowing" codex)?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

Does a Gaider post count as fluff? Because he heavily implies that abominations are more dangerous than either the mage or the demon put together, due to having both their magic and the mage's. Compare this to the basically disposable cannon fodder that they are in-game.

I'm going to cast great doubt on that unless it's actually shown.

Go ahead, I suppose.

Beside the point, and doesn't help your case for abolishing the Harrowing.

Not abolishing, but making it safer.

Okay then, but it doesn't help that much either.

If I were in charge of a mage revolution, the only thing I'd drop would be the religion. Everything else is if nothing else practical, it's just the internalization of religiously based stigmas that doesn't help. That tranquil whose Journal came up might have been fine without the horror stories he got from his grandmother, combined with the Chantry teaching that there's something innately sinful about magic just because it has the power to do these horrible things. I'd even keep the Templars, or at least such as could be made to do their jobs reasonably.

I'm ending anything and everything to do with the current Templar Order and ensuring they can never again find similar positions anywhere. Those who are still alive, at any rate. If anything similar is required in the future, I'll find new people.

It will be. And as we already discussed, you'll have trouble finding anyone but them who can train the ones you want, or who can do their jobs until the reasonable ones you want are ready.

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

So the mage is about to fail the harrowing, the elder mage intervenes and saves him.

Grats? You've got a mage who isn't going to pass his harrowing ever because he knows now that he's being handheld and he's a threat to everyone around him due to his failure.

With the Chantry controlled Circles, we have the templars throwing an apprentice into the Fade and merely hoping he does well. An alternative is necessary. The Magi Origin makes it seem like the apprentice isn't properly instructed in dealing with the subtle manipulations of demons. It almost seems like the apprentices are set up to fail.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

So the mage is about to fail the harrowing, the elder mage intervenes and saves him.

Grats? You've got a mage who isn't going to pass his harrowing ever because he knows now that he's being handheld and he's a threat to everyone around him due to his failure.

With the Chantry controlled Circles, we have the templars throwing an apprentice into the Fade and merely hoping he does well. An alternative is necessary. The Magi Origin makes it seem like the apprentice isn't properly instructed in dealing with the subtle manipulations of demons. It almost seems like the apprentices are set up to fail.

To be fair, if memory serves that Pride demon was about as subtle as a jackhammer.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2012 - 03:12 .

[Auintus]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

To be fair, if memory serves that Pride demon was about as subtle as a jackhammer.

He started off okay, but near the end it was obvious that something was off. Of course, all conversation options led to him ratting himself out. If the actual possibility of failure was there...

Modifié par Auintus, 30 octobre 2012 - 03:18 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Auintus wrote...


He started off okay, but near the end it was obvious that something was off. Of course, all conversation options led to him ratting himself out. If the actual possibility of failure was there...

He became obvious once he started trying. That's what I meant with that remark, his actual attempts were as well hidden as a telephone pole in a haystack.

Of course, some people probably would have fallen for it if the option was there. Either because they missed it, or for the lulz.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2012 - 03:21 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

Hey, speaking of Blood Magic, someone help me with this.

[Villiamus]

I'm watching Hurricane Sandy outside my window, if blood magic can't tear branches off tree's and send it flying into the neighbors garage it's really not that impressive

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

So the mage is about to fail the harrowing, the elder mage intervenes and saves him.

Grats? You've got a mage who isn't going to pass his harrowing ever because he knows now that he's being handheld and he's a threat to everyone around him due to his failure.

With the Chantry controlled Circles, we have the templars throwing an apprentice into the Fade and merely hoping he does well. An alternative is necessary. The Magi Origin makes it seem like the apprentice isn't properly instructed in dealing with the subtle manipulations of demons. It almost seems like the apprentices are set up to fail.

Obvously apprentices have been instructed in various demons behavior throughout the years they have been studying at the Circles. The only thing the apprentices aren't prepared for, is what the Harrowing exactly is. They have already been taught self-defense against demons, they just havn't tested it yet. And you are antagonizing the Templars unduely (again). The Templars can't really do anything else than wait on the sideline. Besides, it wasn't the Templars who came up with the Harrowing.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

So the mage is about to fail the harrowing, the elder mage intervenes and saves him.

Grats? You've got a mage who isn't going to pass his harrowing ever because he knows now that he's being handheld and he's a threat to everyone around him due to his failure.

With the Chantry controlled Circles, we have the templars throwing an apprentice into the Fade and merely hoping he does well. An alternative is necessary. The Magi Origin makes it seem like the apprentice isn't properly instructed in dealing with the subtle manipulations of demons. It almost seems like the apprentices are set up to fail.

Obvously apprentices have been instructed in various demons behavior throughout the years they have been studying at the Circles. The only thing the apprentices aren't prepared for, is what the Harrowing exactly is. They have already been taught self-defense against demons, they just havn't tested it yet. And you are antagonizing the Templars unduely (again). The Templars can't really do anything else than wait on the sideline. Besides, it wasn't the Templars who came up with the Harrowing.

But they do restrict research into demons. If you do not what you can expect from a demon then it becomes more difficult to combat them. So i can blame the chantry and the templars for every failed harrowing and every abomination.

[EmperorSahlertz]

There are also obvious reasons why the CIRCLES restrict research of demons.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There are also obvious reasons why the CIRCLES restrict research of demons.

Lol right. Ignorance is something i do not tolerate when it comes to such dangerous matters. if the templars do not allow this research they are (no matter how well intentioned) endangering the safety of the public.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There are also obvious reasons why the CIRCLES restrict research of demons.

Lol right. Ignorance is something i do not tolerate when it comes to such dangerous matters. if the templars do not allow this research they are (no matter how well intentioned) endangering the safety of the public.

It's also dangerous to research them. It's implied that that's what really killed Shale's master. It makes sense to research them, but it also makes sense not to, for largely the same reason: bad things can happen.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2012 - 03:19 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There are also obvious reasons why the CIRCLES restrict research of demons.

Lol right. Ignorance is something i do not tolerate when it comes to such dangerous matters. if the templars do not allow this research they are (no matter how well intentioned) endangering the safety of the public.

Again, its is not solely the Templars who restrict the research, the Circles themselves restrict it. The Templars merely enforces this restriction. And there are obvious reasons as to why you should be careful when it comes to research of demons. So far all codex entries involving demon research have ended up with the researcher being seduced or killed by the demons he was trying to study.

[DKJaigen]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There are also obvious reasons why the CIRCLES restrict research of demons.

Lol right. Ignorance is something i do not tolerate when it comes to such dangerous matters. if the templars do not allow this research they are (no matter how well intentioned) endangering the safety of the public.

It's also dangerous to research them. It's implied that that's what really killed Shale's master. It makes sense to research them, but it also makes sense not to, for largely the same reason: bad things can happen.

Every single research in the past and in the future is stained corpses and blood because accidents and malicous purpose will always be present. This kind of research indeed needs to be handeld carefully. But magic is foundation on which human elves dwarves are live. To not research it not only moronic its dangerous to the point that humans can become extinct. So its quite clear anybody who opposes it is commiting treason to all life and deserves death/

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There are also obvious reasons why the CIRCLES restrict research of demons.

Lol right. Ignorance is something i do not tolerate when it comes to such dangerous matters. if the templars do not allow this research they are (no matter how well intentioned) endangering the safety of the public.

Again, its is not solely the Templars who restrict the research, the Circles themselves restrict it. The Templars merely enforces this restriction. And there are obvious reasons as to why you should be careful when it comes to research of demons. So far all codex entries involving demon research have ended up with the researcher being seduced or killed by the demons he was trying to study.

Ah its fanfic time i see.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


Again, its is not solely the Templars who restrict the research, the Circles themselves restrict it. The Templars merely enforces this restriction. And there are obvious reasons as to why you should be careful when it comes to research of demons. So far all codex entries involving demon research have ended up with the researcher being seduced or killed by the demons he was trying to study.

Ah its fanfic time i see.

According to Wilhem's journal, the First Enchanter at the time was considering putting his foot down. And like I said, it's implied that that's what killed him, despite the fact that he took every reasonable precaution.

[DKJaigen]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


Again, its is not solely the Templars who restrict the research, the Circles themselves restrict it. The Templars merely enforces this restriction. And there are obvious reasons as to why you should be careful when it comes to research of demons. So far all codex entries involving demon research have ended up with the researcher being seduced or killed by the demons he was trying to study.

Ah its fanfic time i see.

According to Wilhem's journal, the First Enchanter at the time was considering putting his foot down. And like I said, it's implied that that's what killed him, despite the fact that he took every reasonable precaution.

So ****ing what? That the chantry does not allow these experiments ,and that forced him to work clandestine without nearly as much safeguards, is what really killed him. And yes its indeed IMPLIED.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

DKJaigen wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


Again, its is not solely the Templars who restrict the research, the Circles themselves restrict it. The Templars merely enforces this restriction. And there are obvious reasons as to why you should be careful when it comes to research of demons. So far all codex entries involving demon research have ended up with the researcher being seduced or killed by the demons he was trying to study.

Ah its fanfic time i see.

According to Wilhem's journal, the First Enchanter at the time was considering putting his foot down. And like I said, it's implied that that's what killed him, despite the fact that he took every reasonable precaution.

So ****ing what? That the chantry does not allow these experiments ,and that forced him to work clandestine without nearly as much safeguards, is what really killed him.

He did pretty well, actually. A demon capable of hacking a golem might well have struck on something else. It's hard to outthink a being that basically personifies manipulation.

And yes its indeed IMPLIED.

I don't really feel that answers my argument.

[TEWR]

He did pretty well, actually. A demon capable of hacking a golem might well have struck on something else. It's hard to outthink a being that basically personifies manipulation.

Actually the Demon didn't have an effect on Shale. Caridin will tell Shale that Wilhelm's research into the crystals brought up Shale's former memories of fighting at his side and Shale sort of... regressed to that time period for a very brief time.

According to Wilhem's journal, the First Enchanter at the time was considering putting his foot down.

Not so. First Enchanter Arden was concerned for Wilhelm's safety, but felt that Wilhelm should continue his research as there was no reason to stop yet

[BlueMagitek]

If I recall correctly there is a codex entry or two of a First Enchanter interviewing a Desire Demon, so some demonology studies probably went on.

[DKJaigen]

BlueMagitek wrote...

If I recall correctly there is a codex entry or two of a First Enchanter interviewing a Desire Demon, so some demonology studies probably went on.

He was declared malificar but his fate is unknown. but yeah he did show some signs he was losing it.

[DKJaigen]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


Again, its is not solely the Templars who restrict the research, the Circles themselves restrict it. The Templars merely enforces this restriction. And there are obvious reasons as to why you should be careful when it comes to research of demons. So far all codex entries involving demon research have ended up with the researcher being seduced or killed by the demons he was trying to study.

Ah its fanfic time i see.

According to Wilhem's journal, the First Enchanter at the time was considering putting his foot down. And like I said, it's implied that that's what killed him, despite the fact that he took every reasonable precaution.

So ****ing what? That the chantry does not allow these experiments ,and that forced him to work clandestine without nearly as much safeguards, is what really killed him.

He did pretty well, actually. A demon capable of hacking a golem might well have struck on something else. It's hard to outthink a being that basically personifies manipulation.

And yes its indeed IMPLIED.

I don't really feel that answers my argument.

Even so i dont like the fact that he was studying a demon in the middle of a town. But thx to the idiocy of the templars mages have no choice but to research under such horrific conditions.