2177 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

You mean the "idiocy of the Circles". The Circles put the restrictions in place, not the Templars. Wether or not the restrictions are actually idiotic is debatable.

[Herr Uhl]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You mean the "idiocy of the Circles". The Circles put the restrictions in place, not the Templars. Wether or not the restrictions are actually idiotic is debatable.

You surely can't deny that the presence of templars is a heavily influencing factor when putting down the restrictions at least?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Of course, it is their job to keep the Circles safe after all. But to blame them for all the restrictions is to willfully vilify them. There are obvious reasons for why the Circle would restrict research of demons.

[Auintus]

Research into demons and blood magic was forbidden by the Chantry, who own the templars.

[EmperorSahlertz]

There are several codex entries that shows that demons have been studied, so obviously research of demons have not been forbidden. Blood magic and other maleficarum arts is indeed outlawed by the Chantry.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There are several codex entries that shows that demons have been studied, so obviously research of demons have not been forbidden. Blood magic and other maleficarum arts is indeed outlawed by the Chantry.

Why does the fact that it was researched mean that such research is not forbidden?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Some of the entries are from Templars.. Plus it is abundantly clear that even the lowest mage got a basic knowledge of demons. So through all that evidence, we can conclude that research into demons isn't illegal, just highly restricted.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Some of the entries are from Templars.. Plus it is abundantly clear that even the lowest mage got a basic knowledge of demons. So through all that evidence, we can conclude that research into demons isn't illegal, just highly restricted.

I agree that's the most plausible explanation, though I feel like pointing out the information the Circle/Chantry has might come from Templar field reports. (At least some of it is known to have.)

[BlueMagitek]

^ Wouldn't that count as field research? </puns>

[Auintus]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Some of the entries are from Templars.. Plus it is abundantly clear that even the lowest mage got a basic knowledge of demons. So through all that evidence, we can conclude that research into demons isn't illegal, just highly restricted.

Knowledge does not imply research. Much of what the Circle knows is drawn from books, likely from an age before such restrictions.
And yet, as if to defeat my own arguement, I feel compelled to point out that Rhys from Asunder was a specialist in Fade spirits. Demons may or may not be another matter.

[TEWR]

BlueMagitek wrote...

If I recall correctly there is a codex entry or two of a First Enchanter interviewing a Desire Demon, so some demonology studies probably went on.

Senior Enchanter. And that Enchanter was of the Circle of Rivain. And the Rivaini Mages/Seers willingly allow themselves to be possessed, so it's natural that they'd engage in demonology.

But the other Circles do not, as the Rivaini Circle and the Mages that live there are unique.

[DKJaigen]

Auintus wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Some of the entries are from Templars.. Plus it is abundantly clear that even the lowest mage got a basic knowledge of demons. So through all that evidence, we can conclude that research into demons isn't illegal, just highly restricted.

Knowledge does not imply research. Much of what the Circle knows is drawn from books, likely from an age before such restrictions.
And yet, as if to defeat my own arguement, I feel compelled to point out that Rhys from Asunder was a specialist in Fade spirits. Demons may or may not be another matter.

But even Rhys admitted they know far to little. And emperor this is no place for fanfiction.

[Herr Uhl]

DKJaigen wrote...

Auintus wrote...

And yet, as if to defeat my own arguement, I feel compelled to point out that Rhys from Asunder was a specialist in Fade spirits. Demons may or may not be another matter.

But even Rhys admitted they know far to little.

Does this imply that they're not researching it or that it is a hard area to research?

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

If I recall correctly there is a codex entry or two of a First Enchanter interviewing a Desire Demon, so some demonology studies probably went on.

Senior Enchanter. And that Enchanter was of the Circle of Rivain. And the Rivaini Mages/Seers willingly allow themselves to be possessed, so it's natural that they'd engage in demonology.

But the other Circles do not, as the Rivaini Circle and the Mages that live there are unique.

There is nothing that indicates the Rivaini Circle is any differnt than any other Circle in Thedas. The Rivaini Circle does not consist of mages found exclusively in Rivain, quite the contrary probably. Mages are commonly send to a Circle in another country than the one they hail from. Furthermore, it is only the Rivaini Seers, not the mages there in general, that allow themselves to be possessed.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

If I recall correctly there is a codex entry or two of a First Enchanter interviewing a Desire Demon, so some demonology studies probably went on.

Senior Enchanter. And that Enchanter was of the Circle of Rivain. And the Rivaini Mages/Seers willingly allow themselves to be possessed, so it's natural that they'd engage in demonology.

But the other Circles do not, as the Rivaini Circle and the Mages that live there are unique.

There is nothing that indicates the Rivaini Circle is any differnt than any other Circle in Thedas. The Rivaini Circle does not consist of mages found exclusively in Rivain, quite the contrary probably. Mages are commonly send to a Circle in another country than the one they hail from. Furthermore, it is only the Rivaini Seers, not the mages there in general, that allow themselves to be possessed.

Rivaini's history alone shows it'll be different than any other circle. The Rivaini seers allow themselves to be possessed, and the mundanes fought the Chantry because they believed in their customs so much. They wanted their seers to be kept. Add in the history with the Qunari and the Chantry both staking claims there, the Chantry and the Qunari both breaking a treaty and the end result is thousands of Rivaini's minding their own business were killed.

Their entire culture revolves around their seers, and the Chantry doesn't allow that. But if the Chantry didn't want to kill everyone in Rivaini, they'd have to make concessions.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

If I recall correctly there is a codex entry or two of a First Enchanter interviewing a Desire Demon, so some demonology studies probably went on.

Senior Enchanter. And that Enchanter was of the Circle of Rivain. And the Rivaini Mages/Seers willingly allow themselves to be possessed, so it's natural that they'd engage in demonology.

But the other Circles do not, as the Rivaini Circle and the Mages that live there are unique.

There is nothing that indicates the Rivaini Circle is any differnt than any other Circle in Thedas. The Rivaini Circle does not consist of mages found exclusively in Rivain, quite the contrary probably. Mages are commonly send to a Circle in another country than the one they hail from. Furthermore, it is only the Rivaini Seers, not the mages there in general, that allow themselves to be possessed.

Rivaini's history alone shows it'll be different than any other circle. The Rivaini seers allow themselves to be possessed, and the mundanes fought the Chantry because they believed in their customs so much. They wanted their seers to be kept. Add in the history with the Qunari and the Chantry both staking claims there, the Chantry and the Qunari both breaking a treaty and the end result is thousands of Rivaini's minding their own business were killed.

Their entire culture revolves around their seers, and the Chantry doesn't allow that. But if the Chantry didn't want to kill everyone in Rivaini, they'd have to make concessions.

If the Templars actually captured a Seer, they would most certainly not send him to the Rivaini Circle. It is far more likely that they would ship him off to a foreign Circle, where they could more easily control the mage and the situation as a whole.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

If I recall correctly there is a codex entry or two of a First Enchanter interviewing a Desire Demon, so some demonology studies probably went on.

Senior Enchanter. And that Enchanter was of the Circle of Rivain. And the Rivaini Mages/Seers willingly allow themselves to be possessed, so it's natural that they'd engage in demonology.

But the other Circles do not, as the Rivaini Circle and the Mages that live there are unique.

There is nothing that indicates the Rivaini Circle is any differnt than any other Circle in Thedas. The Rivaini Circle does not consist of mages found exclusively in Rivain, quite the contrary probably. Mages are commonly send to a Circle in another country than the one they hail from. Furthermore, it is only the Rivaini Seers, not the mages there in general, that allow themselves to be possessed.

Rivaini's history alone shows it'll be different than any other circle. The Rivaini seers allow themselves to be possessed, and the mundanes fought the Chantry because they believed in their customs so much. They wanted their seers to be kept. Add in the history with the Qunari and the Chantry both staking claims there, the Chantry and the Qunari both breaking a treaty and the end result is thousands of Rivaini's minding their own business were killed.

Their entire culture revolves around their seers, and the Chantry doesn't allow that. But if the Chantry didn't want to kill everyone in Rivaini, they'd have to make concessions.

If the Templars actually captured a Seer, they would most certainly not send him to the Rivaini Circle. It is far more likely that they would ship him off to a foreign Circle, where they could more easily control the mage and the situation as a whole.

Of course they'll send them to a new circle. The one there has already been annulled as revealed in Asunder.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Templars wouldn't send a mage to any Circle at all, considering current events. I was speaking out of a general idea of the old system.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Rivaini's history alone shows it'll be different than any other circle. The Rivaini seers allow themselves to be possessed, and the mundanes fought the Chantry because they believed in their customs so much. They wanted their seers to be kept. Add in the history with the Qunari and the Chantry both staking claims there, the Chantry and the Qunari both breaking a treaty and the end result is thousands of Rivaini's minding their own business were killed.

Their entire culture revolves around their seers, and the Chantry doesn't allow that. But if the Chantry didn't want to kill everyone in Rivaini, they'd have to make concessions.

No, Riviani Circle is pretty normal.

The Seers are hedge mages. Like Morrigan. They aren't part of the Circle.

[DKJaigen]

Herr Uhl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Auintus wrote...

And yet, as if to defeat my own arguement, I feel compelled to point out that Rhys from Asunder was a specialist in Fade spirits. Demons may or may not be another matter.

But even Rhys admitted they know far to little.

Does this imply that they're not researching it or that it is a hard area to research?

I will then remind you that his research was shutdown by the templars for no appearent reason.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Rivaini's history alone shows it'll be different than any other circle. The Rivaini seers allow themselves to be possessed, and the mundanes fought the Chantry because they believed in their customs so much. They wanted their seers to be kept. Add in the history with the Qunari and the Chantry both staking claims there, the Chantry and the Qunari both breaking a treaty and the end result is thousands of Rivaini's minding their own business were killed.

Their entire culture revolves around their seers, and the Chantry doesn't allow that. But if the Chantry didn't want to kill everyone in Rivaini, they'd have to make concessions.

No, Riviani Circle is pretty normal.

Actually, my understanding was that the culture was mostly qunari, except that both the Chantry and Qunari rivainis had the understanding that the seers (who are hedge mages, yes) are to be respected and not subjected to whichever faction's normal rules.

[Auintus]

Herr Uhl wrote...
Does this imply that they're not researching it or that it is a hard area to research?

It implies that the limitations on such research prevent the uncovering of potentially life-saving data, though I'm probably biased.

[Zeleen]

As a mage my PC never used Blood Magic.. I found it somewhat repulsive ... (Now remember just my opinion) and also in the Lore it leads to unpleasant consequences as seen in Da:O and DA2.
So I think that as a PC using Blood Magic there should be more reaction from those around you as well as "possible" consequences"

[EmperorSahlertz]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Rivaini's history alone shows it'll be different than any other circle. The Rivaini seers allow themselves to be possessed, and the mundanes fought the Chantry because they believed in their customs so much. They wanted their seers to be kept. Add in the history with the Qunari and the Chantry both staking claims there, the Chantry and the Qunari both breaking a treaty and the end result is thousands of Rivaini's minding their own business were killed.

Their entire culture revolves around their seers, and the Chantry doesn't allow that. But if the Chantry didn't want to kill everyone in Rivaini, they'd have to make concessions.

No, Riviani Circle is pretty normal.

Actually, my understanding was that the culture was mostly qunari, except that both the Chantry and Qunari rivainis had the understanding that the seers (who are hedge mages, yes) are to be respected and not subjected to whichever faction's normal rules.

Rivain is mostly Andrastian. There is only a single city in northern Rivain which is still Qunari. There are however throughout Rivain people who cling to their old customs of revering abominations and other nonsense, but I am sure the Chantry is doing its finest, at stamping that out.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


No, Riviani Circle is pretty normal.

Actually, my understanding was that the culture was mostly qunari, except that both the Chantry and Qunari rivainis had the understanding that the seers (who are hedge mages, yes) are to be respected and not subjected to whichever faction's normal rules.

Rivain is mostly Andrastian. There is only a single city in northern Rivain which is still Qunari.

Okay, thanks.

There are however throughout Rivain people who cling to their old customs of revering abominations and other nonsense, but I am sure the Chantry is doing its finest, at stamping that out.

Almost certainly, but it'll take the intervention of a PC for them to pull it off completely. It's hard to police a group that lives in what is essentially wilderness and whose culture revolves around the opposite of what you're trying to do.