30 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyWench]

So, IF you saved Connor in Origins, the epilogue talks about how he was sent to the circle and (if memory serves) eventually wound up in Tevinter. Now, Wynne and Alistair in particular were SUPA cranky if you did anything other than petition the circle mages to come to Redcliffe to save him from the demon and preserve Isolde's life (honestly, just to not hear her shrill cries of "Teagan!" again was tempting enough...J/K! Mostly...lol). But even though it seemed like the "happy" ending for that family, despite the fact that the game somewhat convicingly persuaded you to think that he could have any kind of recovery and normal life (well, for a mage) afterwards...it always left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially when Eamon talks to the Warden at the end and says Connor's been strangely quiet.

About "curing" possession in general: I did think it was interesting how First Enchanter Irving, a Circle mage, jumped right on the suggestion that it could not only be done, but by using Tevinter methods (shh! don't anybody tell the Divine), while Marethari said the person's soul would be scarred forevah no matter what. We also know the confrontation process can be facilitated with blood magic. Anders seemed to be under the impression that the only way to separate them was  through death and that even then he didn't know what would happen to the spirit for sure.

All this is to say, I expect a curve ball. I fervently HOPE for it. I had the same retroactive reaction toward sparing the Architect when Hawke talked to Corypheus (i.e. "OMG, why did I let him go! The Warden totally fell for it! Good one, devs. Ya tricked me!"). If Anders and DA2 taught me anything, it's that I am now more unsure than ever that any mage can actually survive being an abomination with their sanity intact. Granted, that still leaves Wynne as a bit of an anomally, but that was always presented as more of a guardian angel situation rather than a "I played roulette with a demon and agreed to this possession shiz" type deal. As some people have brought up in this thread, Fiona in the The Calling also seems to be a special case.

However, if my assumption is wrong, meaning Connor was spared and turned out completely normal, then doesn't that just add fuel to the mages' fire because the implication is that the Templars must have known that there was a sound way to reverse it and tried to deny that self-treatment and autonomy to the Circle, making Tranquility an even more unjust, barbaric and unneccessary method of prevention? The whole justification for the Circle rings false (there is a difference between hunting down/curing possessed mages and preemptively keeping them all under lock and key for a treatable condition). It renders the Harrowing just a cruel and unusual punishment, and murder if the initiate was possessed in the process. We prevent the ravages of Polio with a vaccine, not by cutting someone's legs off. Yikes!

Granted, the DA devs seem to be fond of falling back on retconning when needed, so maybe I'm overthinking this for nothing, LOL!

Either way, I'm excited. In DA3, I want to see Connor and Feynriel show up (assuming they were sent away, or Connor's sister Rowan if he was killed).  I want to see the consequences (or benefits) of choices made by the other heroes in the other games come back and have an impact. And I want more moments like the ones I described: references that make me sit in my chair and think about decisions that, chronologically, would have taken place some ten years ago in the DA universe and think, "Oh...crap?" Awesome.

Thoughts?


EDIT: Updated to add on some additional thoughts, thanks to inspiration from Dagr88 and others! Thanks, BSN.

Modifié par LadyWench, 01 octobre 2012 - 04:19 .

[thats1evildude]

Apparently, Connor was going to show up in DA2, but it was cut.

Keeper Marethari says that demonic possession results in horrific trauma and it's more merciful simply to kill the host than save him. I don't know how true it is, but I imagine Connor didn't walk away totally unscathed.

[LadyWench]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. We've been given some conflicting information about this, but it seems intentionally ambiguous and makes a lot of sense in the context of everything else we understand (or don't) about magic and mages in DA. I would love to see how this plays out, especially since some forum members have even taken Ander's recruitment quest with Karl as a potential indication that the Rite of Tranquility can actually be reversed.

[Quicksilver26]

dude i so have to see Connor and Feynriel i must know what might happen to them

[thats1evildude]

I'll note that Fiona wasn't too badly affected by being possessed by a demon in The Calling. But Fiona is also very tough.

[LadyWench]

Ah, I've been meaning to get around to reading the books for well over a year, lol. Maybe I will have some insight into that when I finally do. Mental fortitude may have an impact, and she was also a Grey Warden, right? So I'm not sure how that may or may not make a difference.

Still, I think Connor is a big question mark that they hinted at toward the end of the game. I'm glad he didn't show up in DA2, it would have been shoe-horned in. Him being in his late teens/early twenties and involved with the Inquisition makes much more sense to me, story-wise.

[DiscoSludge]

I'm almost 78% sure that Connor will be in this game seeing as how the mage/templar war seems to be one of the big plot points of DA3(this is me assuming, of course.)

Plus, as it's been said before, it seems like they're trying to fit in some stuff from DA2 that was cut out.

Hopefully him AND Fenyriel both show up, but I'll be happy with either/or.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Wonder what side will Connor take? Mages or Templar. Also what would Eamon support?

[BioFan (Official)]

 SO connor was gong to be in DA2, but for some unkown reason they didn't go through with it. 

[LadyWench]

Ericander77 wrote...

 SO connor was gong to be in DA2, but for some unkown reason they didn't go through with it. 

Ha, I've listened to a lot of the cut audio files from DA:O and DA2, but I hadn't heard this one yet. Thanks for the link. I stand by my earlier statement, though. I'm kinda glad Connor wasn't included in DA2, but I think the time is right to have him play an important cameo in DA3!

[cogsandcurls]

LadyWench wrote...

I would love to see how this plays out, especially since some forum members have even taken Ander's recruitment quest with Karl as a potential indication that the Rite of Tranquility can actually be reversed.

If you're interested in this area of the lore, I'd really reccomend you read Asunder. I think you'd enjoy it.

[Dave of Canada]

I'm glad that content was cut, I don't know why Connor randomly just shares his life story to a stranger.

[KENNY4753]

I do expect something from the Connor decision to play a part in DA3. Whether you saved Connor or Eamen and Isolde's daughter (if Connor dies). Since they are both mages and sent to the circle it would be good to see what happens.

[Josielyn]

I would like to see Connor, Feynriel, the God Baby, and Wynne's son involved in DA3. They all have very different experiences, upbringings, backgrounds in their magical heritage, it would be good to see the differences in how they all turned out as fully fledged adults, how their beliefs & abilities were shaped, etc.

[LadyWench]

KENNY4753 wrote...

I do expect something from the Connor decision to play a part in DA3. Whether you saved Connor or Eamen and Isolde's daughter (if Connor dies). Since they are both mages and sent to the circle it would be good to see what happens.

Oh, good point! How could I forget about her? It would be really cool to see the daughter (wasn't her name Rowan, after Eamon's sister the queen?) if Connor died.

Josielyn wrote...

I would like to see Connor, Feynriel,
the God Baby, and Wynne's son involved in DA3.

Yes, the hints we've gotten so far seem to indicate that God Baby will show up, though in what capacity I can only guess. And I know there are MANY threads covering the MANY theories on just what Flemeth is...I kinda hope that this big mystery they're alluding to is all tied up in finally revealing that, as well. And Sandal, for that matter.
I assumed that Rhys would be making an appearance, as well, or at least given a mention, considering his pivitol role in the latest book and how it ties in with mage/Templar relations...

Anyway, lots of mage-y goodness to look forward to!

[daffl5]

its been a decade in DA so i hope he could even be a companion

[LadyWench]

...or a villian. He has already shown himself to be susecptible to possession by a homicidal demon before.

But, yeah, I'm happy with whatever. Just more than a "Hey, I'm Connor, and I'm a recovering abomination, kaybai" cameo would be great, please, LOL.

[Zkyire]

LadyWench wrote...

...or a villian. He has already shown himself to be susecptible to possession by a homicidal demon before.

But, yeah, I'm happy with whatever. Just more than a "Hey, I'm Connor, and I'm a recovering abomination, kaybai" cameo would be great, please, LOL.

I'd like more but they can't really do too much with him. Some players killed him, so they'd be using time and money creating content that some people wont get to experience at all.

Still, I'd like him in it for as much as feasibly possible

[LadyWench]

Zkyire wrote...

I'd like more but they can't really do too much with him. Some players killed him, so they'd be using time and money creating content that some people wont get to experience at all.

Still, I'd like him in it for as much as feasibly possible

True, though it wouldn't be the first time BioWare was able to utilze/replace certain characters with new or generic ones depending on your choices. Consider ME3's Padok Wiks or the way that the DA2 siblings could be woven into certain scenes with just a few changes dependng on the outcome of the expedition. He probably can't have a starring role and I wasn't really expecting that, but including him seamlessly in a crucial scene as an option for someone to help or hinder the PC before he has to escape or get killed, etc. would be nice.

[Dagr88]

Spoiler:

thats1evildude wrote...

I'll note that Fiona wasn't too badly affected by being possessed by a demon in The Calling. But Fiona is also very tough.

LadyWench wrote...
Ah, I've been meaning to get around to reading the books for well over a year, lol. Maybe I will have some
insight into that when I finally do. Mental fortitude may have an impact, and she was also a Grey Warden, right? So I'm not sure how that may or may not make a difference.

Still, I think Connor is a big question mark that they hinted at toward the end of the game. I'm glad
he didn't show up in DA2, it would have been shoe-horned in. Him being in his late teens/early twenties and involved with the Inquisition makes much more sense to me, story-wise.

Now that you both mentioned it... How many Grey Wardens do get possessed by a pride demon and then get to skip their Calling...? (She did get the temparary rash tho)

Modifié par Dagr88, 01 octobre 2012 - 03:14 .

[LadyWench]

Dagr88 wrote...
Now that you both mentioned it... How many Grey Wardens do get possessed by a pride demon and then get to skip their Calling...? (She did get the temparary rash tho)

...wha? Snap, now I need to read the books more urgently than ever, LOL. But, yeah, sounds like a unique case.

I did think it was interesting how First Enchanter Irving, a Circle mage, jumped right on the suggestion that it could not only be done, but by using Tevinter methods (shh! don't anybody tell the Divine), while Marethari said the person's soul would be scarred forevah no matter what. We also know the confrontation process can be facilitated with blood magic. Anders seemed to be under the impression that the only way to separate them was through death and that even then he didn't know what would happen to the spirit for sure.

If my assumption is wrong, meaning Connor was spared and turned out completely normal, then that's just more fuel for the mages' fire because the implication is that the Templars must have known that there was a sound way to reverse it, making Tranquility an even more unjust, barbaric and unneccessary method of prevention. It renders the Harrowing just a cruel and unusual punishment.

EDIT: Adding this to the OP!

Modifié par LadyWench, 01 octobre 2012 - 03:55 .

[Arokel]

Marethari makes it pretty clear that the victim will be scarred for life.

Even if you cured Connor with Irving's help Eamon will still say something about Connor acting odd just before the epilogue. This may be due to the fact that it was a traumatic experience (heck, it was traumatic for everyone in a 15 mile radius) but it may also have to do with his soul having been in contact with a demon.

Modifié par Arokel, 01 octobre 2012 - 04:18 .

[LadyWench]

Agreed. What I mean to say is that we've been given many conflicting view points from many mages who seem to know a thing or two about the topic, or at least think they do. Until we see Connor again or this is addressed in some kind of way story-wise, the true repercussions of a possession (and subsequent "cure") still an unknown.

[LobselVith8]

LadyWench wrote...

If my assumption is wrong, meaning Connor was spared and turned out completely normal, then that's just more fuel for the mages' fire because the implication is that the Templars must have known that there was a sound way to reverse it, making Tranquility an even more unjust, barbaric and unneccessary method of prevention. It renders the Harrowing just a cruel and unusual punishment.

Irving does point out it's because Connor made a deal with the Desire Demon. As long as the mage willingly made a bargain with a denizen of the Fade, which was the case with Connor, it can (apparently) be reversed. That isn't always the case with possession. Uldred, who lost a battle of wills after summoning more demons than he could control, would not be able to have the same procedure done.

[LadyWench]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Irving does point out it's because Connor made a deal with the Desire Demon. As long as the mage willingly made a bargain with a denizen of the Fade, which was the case with Connor, it can (apparently) be reversed. That isn't always the case with possession. Uldred, who lost a battle of wills after summoning more demons than he could control, would not be able to have the same procedure done.

Thanks, LobselVith8. You make an interesting point, and I do remember Irving saying that, but that still doesn't make much sense to me. I mean, once you've been vulnerable to a demon's manipulations/sought out demons to make a deal with, wouldn't you be considered weak and a lost cause? I thought that was the whole justification for killing blood mages and abominations to begin with. And if a mage is tricked into helping a demon in the Harrowing, for example, doesn't that fall under the category of a "curable" possession and therefore the Templars should not be killing these apprentices?

There seem to be blood mages who don't use their powers for evil or go on demonic rampages (Malcolm Hawke and Merrill come to mind), can possession be the same thing? Again, that brings me back to my OP.

It's just a very complicated topic, like I said. Hopefully with the mage vs. Chantry war coming to a head, we will get some clarity.