MajorKellyRisner wrote...
This post that I i have worked on will ruffle a few feathers, but everyone is able to express their own views.
Either way, wiether you like it or not, I think i have some valid points to this "theory".
It won't ruffle any feathers, really. The vast majority of the people who follow IT are more than happy to delve into the speculation around the game.
After all, the more arguments AGAINST Indoctrination Theory that can be disproved or rebuffed, the more convincing, complete and valid a theory it becomes.
So let's take a look at your argument, shall we?
First off, do you really think that half-a-dozen hastily written and badly researched paragraphs will hold up against over 5,000 pages of (mostly civilised) speculation and discussion, plus supporting in-game evidence, detailed videos and research into the story, background and game files of Mass Effect 3? And your argument IS badly researched and hastily put together, as proven in your opening argument on the "Last Breath" scene.
"Shepard is buried under a pile of rubble, with the chest plate exposed, and Shepard takes one single breath. And some how, this scene is supports the theory."
So, you're saying you don't actually know how the "Shepard Breathes" scene supports Indoctrination Theory? If you don't know how it supports the theory, how can you effectively argue against it? Answer: You can't; you've shot yourself in the foot before you've even begun. If you wanted to disprove this particular point, then do your research, explain HOW the scene is believed to supports IT, and then prove it doesn't with supporting evidence. If you can't do this, you're doing nothing more than wasting everybody's time.
Secondly, the Prothean VI's. The indoctrination theory states the Shepard is undergoing a full indoctrination attempt at the END of Mass Effect 3 - following the encounter with Harbinger as Shepard charges to the beam, in fact.
So why on Earth do you think the Prothean VI's inability to detect indoctrination in Shepard disproves the theory? The attempt to manipulate Shepard hasn't even happened when you speak to Vendetta on Thessia (or the Cerberus Base, for that matter), and it CERTAINLY hasn't happened on Ilos during the events of the first game.
And even if we accept your argument with regards to the Prothean VI's, Javik quite clearly states that the Prothean Empire's attempts at building the Crucible were sabotaged from within by an indoctrinated Prothean factions, who - shock, horror - wanted to use it to Control the Reapers. Sound familiar? If the Prothean VI's were infallible, then surely that would never have happened.
Let's move on to your argument regarding Shepard's death. The problem you have with debating this chronologically is that we KNOW from Bioware's own mouths that the ending of Mass Effect 3 hadn't been written or even concieved of at the time that Mass Effect 2 was written. While Indoctrination Theory does draw from elements that are present throughout the series (and Reaper Indoctrination is a major plot device encountered and discussed many times in all three games), the main evidence for the Indoctrination Theory comes from the story that is told in Mass Effect 3.
What's next? Ah, yes. "The Leviathan content." Your discussion of the Leviathan content comes across as pure speculative whimsy - you provide no evidence of substance, just a muddled-up list of "i think's", "what if's" and "so there's". There's nothing here but your opinion, and your opinion is clearly biased against IT. We'll dismiss those claims. Your discussion of a vaguely-rumoured piece of DLC is also irrelevant, as the Indoctrination Theory doesn't rely on it in any way shape or form. You're speculating about something that doesn't exist, which is frankly absurd.
Bioware's response. Yes, that's what we're ALL waiting for, one way or another. Bioware are very reluctant to talk about the endings, or theories regarding the endings, and until they do, all we can do is speculate.
That said, Bioware have OPENLY ADMITTED that they were working on including indoctrinaion in the game's final sequences.
From the Final Hours app:
Casey Hudson:
"The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. 'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'
In truth the final bits of dialogue were debated right up until the end of 2011. Martin sheen's voice-over session for the illusive man, originally scheduled for August, was delayed until mid-November so the writers would have more time to finesse the ending.
And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices)."
Sure, the gameplay mechanic was dropped, but there you have it, from the horses mouth that indoctrination WAS intended to play a part in the end of the game. And if the GAMEPLAY element was dropped at the very last minute, how much of the STORY leading up to that point still remains?
And of course, if it's a Bioware response you're looking for, we also have Chris Priestly's words on the matter:
Chris Priestly wrote...
"No. The IT thread remains here as it is a valid possibility for the end of the game.
Anyone who does not like the IT or thinks it not to be correct is STRONGLY enouraged to stay away from discussion on it."
Maybe, if you felt that strongly about it, you should have took Chris Priestly's advice?
Reposted since TC singularly failed to address the debunking of their topic earlier, in favour of arguing smaller points.
Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 30 septembre 2012 - 10:09 .
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