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[Mr Mxyzptlk]

What is so Dark and Mature about the Dragon Age universe? And how exactly will that translate in Dragon Age 3?
(See Dragon Age 3 related, keep those lock happy fingers away from my thread Stan)

I mean I dont get what is considered so Dark and mature about the series, sure the world is bland and ugly but that doesnt make it dark, just bland and ugly. Looking at past examples Origins seems to be the standard good vs evil story, noble heroes fighting against impossible odds and winning, every choice you make has the "fairytale ending" option, nothing really dark about it. To be honest the phrase "Dark and Mature" gets thrown around so much these days I am not really sure what it means anymore, give me your definition of "Dark and Mature".

[Allan Schumacher]

This came up on Project Eternity's discuss as well, and as I enter into the thread I already know what sort of topics are going to be touched on when someone uses the word "mature."

It seems as though people equate the term "mature" with something either "taboo" or "uncomfortable." I can at least make some sense over the idea of relating "dark" to something like "uncomfortable" in that my own perspective of the term is that a setting that is dark is one in which things happen that make me feel uncomfortable.

Maturity is another matter, however. Virtually anything can be discussed in a mature (or immature) manner. Yet it always comes back to people that want mature really seem to want "dark/gritty/uncomfortable." At least that's what always seems to be the case whenever I see threads hoping for more maturity.

[David Gaider]

Sorry, but I can't help but roll my eyes a little every time this topic comes up.

It's pretty clear that everyone who talks about "dark" as an adjective means something a little different by it-- generally there's some title that is also labeled "dark fantasy" and they declare that, since Dragon Age doesn't match that game thematically, it therefore can't be dark fantasy... since dark fantasy is one thing and one thing only? Never mind that any conversation on the topic reveals that the adjective is open to wild interpretation?

Dragon Age deals with mature themes: slavery, racism, sexuality, the struggle of humanity versus itself. It's not just about good vs. evil. It thus does have dark fantasy elements, but it's also not solely dark fantasy. It has elements of high fantasy as well. We don't need it to fit comfortably into a single box, and I'm not sure why anyone else would.

To me, this is the same kind of pseudo-intellectual exercise as trying to squeeze BioWare's characters into archetypes-- what's the point? At best this is an issue about communicating what the game actually is, but if someone honestly expects us to qualify every description with "it's dark fantasy, but not like x and only because of y, and it's high fantasy, but not like x or x and only because of z" then you're out of your mind. We think the dark fantasy elements are more important, especially to distinguish Dragon Age from the typical high fantasy world mold of D&D, and while YMMV that doesn't change Dragon Age from simply being what it is.

[David Gaider]

Runningleaf wrote...
It must be usfull feed back. The oppinion of the actuall games seems well distributed, very dark, not dark enough, just right. and what the people consider to be too dark or what might even make them turn away from a game altogether. It may be silly, maybe, but It must have it's uses.

Not so much. Those categories are a way of describing what the game actually is-- they do not determine the content. If they did, that would very much be a case of the tail wagging the dog. If someone says "I want the content to be darker", then that's cool and good feedback (even if we might disagree). If someone says "I want the content to be darker because the Witcher was darker", then that's rather pointless. Dragon Age neither needs nor wants to be the Witcher any more than the Witcher needs or wants to be Dragon Age.

Modifié par David Gaider, 01 octobre 2012 - 05:03 .

[Allan Schumacher]

/tongueInCheek

Isn't a setting where sexism isn't an issue an innately more mature one?


Mmmm, Can of worms.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 02 octobre 2012 - 06:00 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

By that logic, the omition of racism, violence, greed and any other kind of hurtful human elements make a mature setting.

So you're essentially saying the Teletubbies is the most mature setting to ever bless TV.

Actually, my post was more tongue in cheek, but "by my logic" the idea that a civilization had progressed to a point where sexism no longer was an issue was probably a more mature civilization.

It's not the "omission of sexism" but rather "the evolution beyond sexism."


Do you disagree, or do you think that a society that has an inherent power struggle based purely on sexual characteristics is a better one?  Though I suppose I am imposing my bias that a more mature society is probably a "better" one.

I thought it was funny, even if no one is getting it.

Some people did

[Allan Schumacher]

robertthebard wrote...

Disregard this post.  The ESRB exists primarily as a kneejerk reaction to the original Mortal Kombat's finishing moves.  Nothing innately sexist, or mature/immature about them.  It was "OMG, my kids might see somebody get their spine ripped out"...

ESRB Site

The article wrote...

Mission
To empower consumers, especially parents, with the ability to make informed decisions about the age-appropriateness of video games and mobile apps while also holding the video game industry accountable for responsible marketing practices.

It's just like the ratings system for language on music CD's:  OMG, I shouldn't have to monitor what my kids are doing, there should be a government agency to do it for me".

I don't think Vandicus' statement is that the mandate of the ESRB is intrinsically immature, but rather the irony of elements that get classified based upon maturity are arguably less mature.  I don't think it's an argument that many games rated "M for Mature" are really particularly mature games.  Unless you look at it from the standpoint that recognizing that said game is immature requires a mature viewpoint (i.e. a younger child may not make this association and feel that what he is seeing on screen is reflective of reality).

You are right that the ESRB manifested itself out of the Mortal Kombat craze.

[Allan Schumacher]

I tend to go with the common belief of the fifteenth century and earlier that it actually happened, whether expressly codified or not. The threat of such, according to the article I linked below, was implied in certain marriage taxes at the time.

You had mentioned it was a legal right in your original post, which would require it to be codified. That some men would rape slaves (which serfs pretty much were) is not a particularly shocking thing.

Snopes had an interesting article about it, and how resistance to the idea increased the farther a lord was from being divine (i.e. pretty much anyone of non-Royal blood with a lineage to a king). Since most lords are just granted a title, they are not typically considered divine.