191 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

This. Dark is a term so vague it means nothing.

slimgrin wrote...

 It has nothing in common with Conan or the Witcher or Game of thrones.

You're right, it is meaningless!

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[hoorayforicecream]

Silfren wrote...

Any story or movie featuring Gotham City would be another good example of what "dark fantasy" refers to.

This man has something for you.

[mousestalker]

In dark fantasy the protagonist kills people, but he or she broods about it. A lot. Unless of course he sparkles, in which case he broods about thinking about killing other people.

Or, to put it another way, in dark fantasy the writers dial the angst to eleven.

Now you know.

[Chromie]

slimgrin wrote...
Then they tried to tack on the dark and mature angle. And it couldn't be more artificial. 

The Marilyn Manson trailers so didn't help.

[Masha Potato]

Yeah, you can't eat a single baby, I got no idea what's so mature about it

[slimgrin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

This. Dark is a term so vague it means nothing.

slimgrin wrote...

 It has nothing in common with Conan or the Witcher or Game of thrones.

You're right, it is meaningless!

I don't like it any better when CDPR uses the term, but it's always Bioware trying to boast about it when their games are really PG rated. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 30 septembre 2012 - 01:58 .

[upsettingshorts]

Whereas CDPR are widely known for their restraint and humility when talking about their games.

[Plaintiff]

I find these terms utterly meaningless in the context of fiction.

[Conduit0]

"dark fantasy" is a term coined and used by people who are afraid of looking childish for playing games that encompass classic fairytale elements, like elves, dwarves, and wizards.
It really has no meaning beyond the desire to not appear immature to others.

[slimgrin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Whereas CDPR are widely known for their restraint and humility when talking about their games.

Lol, fair enough.

[Dintonta]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...
[...] give me your definition of "Dark and Mature".

About 'mature', it's a much too vast topic for me to try to give you an answer (and it's becoming late also...)

About 'dark', I'm under the impression that what would actually answer your question would be that you tried to give a positive definition of what you expect to find behind that word (not by the example of another game, nor by negative counter-example from DA.)

You already wrote you thought the 'dark' atmosphere of the game should come from the 'believable' elements of the fictional world, not from the obviously fantastic ones (like the broodmommies, or the bloodmagic horrific experiences).

So (just trying to be helpful) if we stick with the 'believable' parts, what would be your feelings if you compared the word 'dark' with the word 'tragic' (as in the tragedy genre, where everything -main protagonist included- ends bad)?

[Silfren]

slimgrin wrote...

This. Dark is a term so vague it means nothing.

I hear a lot of people claiming this, or saying that it's been so overused as to have LOST all meaning.  I can't really agree, though.  I concede that it's often used as a buzzword for marketing, as with Origins, which I think was MEANT to be dark, but failed to deliver a setting that was consistently dark throughout.  But there IS such a thing as dark fantasy and it does have a concrete meaning, in my opinion.  I'd argue that accurately used it refers to a universally grim, dystopic setting.  The problem is that because of its popularity, the label gets slapped on titles that don't warrant it.  So it isn't that the term has no meaning, but that it is inappropriately applied far too often. 

I think it's more true that "mature" is term too vague to use without context.  It can, after all, refer simply to R- or X-rated sexual content, or to excessive violence.  But a story could also have neither sexual content and only mild or implied violence, and still contain concepts much too complex for the terminally immature young children and possibly some young adults to grasp.

[Lenimph]

Just wanted to post what I consider " mature dark fantasy"

[Silfren]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Any story or movie featuring Gotham City would be another good example of what "dark fantasy" refers to.

This man has something for you.

Har Har, of course let us not forget that ultra-campy ridiculous 60s travesty that devolved to the point they wouldn't show Robin's body below the waistline. :happy: However, Gotham is still well-known as one of the ultimate examples of urban decay and criminal corruption, hence its uber-dark atmosphere in MOST representations.

[hoorayforicecream]

Silfren wrote...

Har Har, of course let us not forget that ultra-campy ridiculous 60s travesty that devolved to the point they wouldn't show Robin's body below the waistline. :happy: However, Gotham is still well-known as one of the ultimate examples of urban decay and criminal corruption, hence its uber-dark atmosphere in MOST representations.

This is also untrue. Gotham only really became "darker" in the 70s, and it didn't really take off until 1986 with Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns". Before that, Batman and Gotham City were pretty firmly in the age of camp and regularly visited by zany hijinks for several decades.

[Chromie]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Har Har, of course let us not forget that ultra-campy ridiculous 60s travesty that devolved to the point they wouldn't show Robin's body below the waistline. :happy: However, Gotham is still well-known as one of the ultimate examples of urban decay and criminal corruption, hence its uber-dark atmosphere in MOST representations.

This is also untrue. Gotham only really became "darker" in the 70s, and it didn't really take off until 1986 with Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns". Before that, Batman and Gotham City were pretty firmly in the age of camp and regularly visited by zany hijinks for several decades.

Off topic but this is my favorite Batman comic ever.

[ObserverStatus]

Lenimph wrote...
Just wanted to post what I consider " mature dark fantasy"

Doesn't get much darker than robed phantoms showing up to chant the Confiteor during villainous breakdowns.

[Dintonta]

Lenimph wrote...

Just wanted to post what I consider " mature dark fantasy"

The funny thing is that the original (Victor Hugo's 'Notre-Dame de Paris') may as well correspond to what OP could looking for (a tragic story in a believable medieval environment, filled with injustices, opression and torture...)

'Fantasy', however, would not be relevant in this example.

Modifié par Dintonta, 30 septembre 2012 - 04:31 .

[Silfren]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Har Har, of course let us not forget that ultra-campy ridiculous 60s travesty that devolved to the point they wouldn't show Robin's body below the waistline. :happy: However, Gotham is still well-known as one of the ultimate examples of urban decay and criminal corruption, hence its uber-dark atmosphere in MOST representations.

This is also untrue. Gotham only really became "darker" in the 70s, and it didn't really take off until 1986 with Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns". Before that, Batman and Gotham City were pretty firmly in the age of camp and regularly visited by zany hijinks for several decades.

*images removed so as to dispense with unnecessary clogging of the thread*

There's no denying that Batman went through a campy period just like a lot of other comics.  But the original Batman didn't start that way, but became so as a result of the period of hyperbolic paranoia surrounding comics and I'm getting a little tired of your insistence on this derailment when my point stands that Gotham City is representative of a dark fantasy setting.

Modifié par Silfren, 30 septembre 2012 - 05:10 .

[joshko]

I consider Dragon Age to be High Fantasy with a little more grown up presentation than say, Lord of the Rings.
I would say something only becomes "Dark" when we deal with relatable and serious character flaws and philosophies. The reason I feel DA fails in this is that the characters are not really tortured souls, rather they are people dealing with life's issues. Well, everyone on this forum is dealing with life's issues, does that mean we have a "Dark" life?

Mature is just so over used and unnecessary. What do you mean by mature? ******? Sex? Old person? Deep philosophical speculation? Complex character relationships and interaction? Unnecessary and disturbing torture? Gratuitous violence? Cursing? Use of various drugs?

Just stop it with "Mature", honestly the minute people start saying it's mature I immediately assume it's the opposite at this point.

Don't make things "Mature" make them enjoyable, interesting, and exciting. If you want to include sex, fine but it's not all of a sudden for the grown ups and those who are older wiser and more sophisticated just because you show two characters dry humping each other.

[CELL55]

Skelter192 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
Then they tried to tack on the dark and mature angle. And it couldn't be more artificial. 

The Marilyn Manson trailers so didn't help.

Did you really have to remind me of that? I was so close to forgetting that. You Monster. 

[CELL55]

It's all in perspective, I think. It's a lot darker than Lord of the Rings, but much lighter than Game of Thrones.

I like it just where it is; it's not unrelate-ably black and white like LOTR, and it doesn't have that Darkness Induced Apathy that I get from GoT (although DA2's ending veered sharply in this direction, which is one of the reasons that I did not like it).

[Eternal Phoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

having a scene where you catch a husband beating his wife would be a nice touch to demonstrate the darkness of Thedas

This is why nobody of consequence takes the BSN's interpretation of what constitutes "dark" and "mature" seriously.

So that sort of stuff didn't happen in real life Medieval Ages (and even today)?

See another topic DA avoids. Sexism.

[Zetheria Tabris]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

also I dont remember anything about females being raped by Darkspawn.

Hespith tells you the darkspawn raped Laryn to turn her into a broodmother through her rhyme.

[CELL55]

Zetheria Tabris wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

also I dont remember anything about females being raped by Darkspawn.

Hespith tells you the darkspawn raped Laryn to turn her into a broodmother through her rhyme.

Dragon Age Wiki wrote...
Dragon Age: Origins revealed that
broodmothers are created by subjecting females of the humanoid races to the
darkspawn taint, possibly by being force-fed darkspawn tissue or humanoid
tissue that has been infected by the taint, though depending on how you take Hespith's poem,
the point could be made that they "inject" the taint in different
ways; "violated" may suggest some form of sexual assault, and there
is evidently an extra step that must be taken to specialize a female ghoul into
a broodmother. If not killed outright because of the effects, the female then
starts to mutate, develops cannibalistic urges and begins to feed on other
sapient prisoners. She devours massive amounts of flesh and grows into a broodmother.

I can't really imagine it being rape as such, as I can't really imagine Darkspawn having the necessary...apendages needed for such an act.