251 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthLaxian]

sorry, but:

how can ANYONE side with the quunari?

do you want to get brainwashed, re-educated and forced to work in job you might hate so badly? if so, then go to some communist country and tell them your wishes...they will take you in a heartbeat (cheap labour is always welcome!)

sorry, for me it is TEVINTER ALL THE WAY

they might have some issues (slavery, only mages in government (also that is not 100% true, as a lot of people (say generals of the armies for example) are non mages - talented non mages, but still, not mages...note: i will not add bloodmagic here, as i do not think it should be forbidden or changed much (!) as the art alone is neither bad nor evil!) but they can be corrected if you have real power and they might be desperate, if they really need you to help them

the quunari will not change, they will force you and lobotomize/drug you if resisst (!) in order to enforce their barbaric philosophy/way of life.

even more disturbing is, that - as i have read on the forums - that these quunari might just be a splinter group from the main quunari people...a splinter group that was driven out most likely because they didn't really try to re-establish contact with their homecountry (!) if that is the case, helping them would be like helping the communist party in russia before they took the government by force in the october revolution and that is unacceptable!

=> they might use the ressources and the menpower (and even the magic - also they tread their mages like dirt (i would not treat the lowest animal that way and even my worst enemy would not be treated this way!) which is another reason i would never help those brainwashed nutcases) to conquer their old homeland (or die trying)...sorry, but i just can't help them, their way is just not acceptable (another note: they have gender bias (!) so why do some females want to help them, they will not let you fight for example (military is 100% male for them) etc.)

greetings LAX

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 08 novembre 2012 - 10:52 .

[Eludajae]

Hail Tevinter!

[EmperorSahlertz]

Critisiscm is allowed agaisnt the QUn, you just have to present cold hard data to support youyr claims. If you can show a way in which you would reduce waste produced by the Qunari society, you can bet that the Qunari would accept the proposal. However, it might be hard to come up with an absolute unarguable improvement.

[EmperorSahlertz]

DarthLaxian wrote...

sorry, but:

how can ANYONE side with the quunari?

do you want to get brainwashed, re-educated and forced to work in job you might hate so badly? if so, then go to some communist country and tell them your wishes...they will take you in a heartbeat (cheap labour is always welcome!)

sorry, for me it is TEVINTER ALL THE WAY

they might have some issues (slavery, only mages in government (also that is not 100% true, as a lot of people (say generals of the armies for example) are non mages - talented non mages, but still, not mages...note: i will not add bloodmagic here, as i do not think it should be forbidden or changed much (!) as the art alone is neither bad nor evil!) but they can be corrected if you have real power and they might be desperate, if they really need you to help them

the quunari will not change, they will force you and lobotomize/drug you if resisst (!) in order to enforce their barbaric philosophy/way of life.

even more disturbing is, that - as i have read on the forums - that these quunari might just be a splinter group from the main quunari people...a splinter group that was driven out most likely because they didn't really try to re-establish contact with their homecountry (!) if that is the case, helping them would be like helping the communist party in russia before they took the government by force in the october revolution and that is unacceptable!

=> they might use the ressources and the menpower (and even the magic - also they tread their mages like dirt (i would not treat the lowest animal that way and even my worst enemy would not be treated this way!) which is another reason i would never help those brainwashed nutcases) to conquer their old homeland (or die trying)...sorry, but i just can't help them, their way is just not acceptable (another note: they have gender bias (!) so why do some females want to help them, they will not let you fight for example (military is 100% male for them) etc.)

greetings LAX

The Qunari wouldn't put you in a job you would hate. As a matter of fact, chances are they would put you in a job you would love.

[TheJediSaint]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Qunari wouldn't put you in a job you would hate. As a matter of fact, chances are they would put you in a job you would love.

After some good ol' brainwashing, of course.   

[Plaintiff]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Everything you say simply serves to prove that you are just as bad as the Qunari by the end of the day.

This should be good.

The QUnari wants to convert others to help them,

I do not want their brand of "help", and there are many others that share my view. When other religions come knocking on my door, I can tell them I'm not interested and they will respectfully **** off. The Qunari, when faced with rejection, respond with murder. 

you want to destroy them for that. If you were truly "better" than the Qunari, you would settle for resisting them and repelling their attempts yet accept their existance.

"Better" is irrelevent. The Qunari are a violent, invasive force, and they've made it perfectly clear that they will not stop until all of them are dead. They are an obvious threat to my personal freedom, and to my very life. I am perfectly within my own rights to defend myself with any and all of the tools at my disposal.

THe problem is, no society following a certain ideal, will ever relent in its attempts to make the rest of the world follow this ideal aswell. Not the Qunari, not the Andrastian, not the capitalist and not the communists It is simply the way societies work.

Except all the times that they did no such thing. When the United States formed a democracy, it did not invade Britain to try and put an end to their monarchy. There are socialist nations in Europe that have proven they are perfectly capable of minding their own damn business. There are plenty of religions and other groups that actively tell their followers to mind their own business and respect the choices of others.

The fact that the Qunari are more militant (though they aren't even nearly as militant as the CHantry were in its starting days) than anything you know, does not make them worse, it makes them a product of their time and enviroment.

I said the Qunari are worse than Tevinter, because Tevinter, by and large, minds its own business. If the Qun is compared to the mainstream Chantry, I'd argue that the two are much the same. I certainly would not hesitate to take violent action if Templars came around to bang my door down.

Had THedas been in the Age of Enlightenment, you can be sure the Qunari would have attempted another strategy of conversion,

I can be sure of no such thing. The Qun deals only in absolutes, it cannot change because that would mean admitting it was ever wrong, which is against its very nature. The Qunari showed up three hundred years ago, they were violent douchebags then, and they're violent douchebags now. They've had plenty of time to change their behaviour, if they were ever going to. Clearly, it's not going to happen. 

however Thedas is more akin to the Middle Ages, in which conquest was the most  effective way of imposing culture.

The time period that Dragon Age derives its setting from is irrelevent. A medieval setting does not excuse medieval morals. All methods of imposing "culture" on others are wrong.

[Adanu]

DarthLaxian wrote...

(another note: they have gender bias (!) so why do some females want to help them, they will not let you fight for example (military is 100% male for them) etc.)

Maybe some women don't buy into feminist lies like you seem too? Like it or not, Women will never be as strong as men are naturally.

[Shadow Fox]

Adanu wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

(another note: they have gender bias (!) so why do some females want to help them, they will not let you fight for example (military is 100% male for them) etc.)

Maybe some women don't buy into feminist lies like you seem too? Like it or not, Women will never be as strong as men are naturally.

You're aware that women are fully capable of fighting like a man right?

[Plaintiff]

Adanu wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

(another note: they have gender bias (!) so why do some females want to help them, they will not let you fight for example (military is 100% male for them) etc.)

Maybe some women don't buy into feminist lies like you seem too? Like it or not, Women will never be as strong as men are naturally.

But if a woman wants to be in the military, you lose nothing by recruiting her and gain nothing by rejecting her.

Having a woman in your army doesn't make it any less effective than it would otherwise be, and if you reject her you're just losing a soldier that you would've had otherwise. No man is stepping up to automatically take her space.

If a female Qunari shows more aptitude for combat than she does for any other area of work, then it makes sense to make her a soldier even if she would be less effective than the male soldiers. Placing her in a non-combat role (which she may well suck at) is just a waste of her obvious talents.

As for our own modern society, where "hunting" consists of sitting at a desk and "war" consists of nothing more strenuous than steering vehicles and pressing triggers, questions of biological differences between sexes are totally irrelevent.

And even if men are "stronger", physical strength is not the sole deciding factor in a fight and never has been.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 09 novembre 2012 - 05:50 .

[Adanu]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Adanu wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

(another note: they have gender bias (!) so why do some females want to help them, they will not let you fight for example (military is 100% male for them) etc.)

Maybe some women don't buy into feminist lies like you seem too? Like it or not, Women will never be as strong as men are naturally.

You're aware that women are fully capable of fighting like a man right?

I'm aware that women are fully capable of learning techniques and combat theory, but put a woman against a man in melee... if both know what they are doing, the man wins

Fact is men can build muscle beyond what women can. A man can easily handle a womans attacks in melee. Nowadays, women are only limited by the firearms they can use, but that still means the big guns are something limited to men for the most part. This is also why Navy and Air Force are the ones who primarily take women. Dragon Age and other games ignore this aspect of history, which is fine.... but trying to say that women can be as strong as men is ridiculous.

Plaintiff wrote...


And even if men are "stronger", physical strength is not the sole deciding factor in a fight and never has been.

Depends on how you define fight. Are we talking warfare, or just one on one?

Modifié par Adanu, 09 novembre 2012 - 07:02 .

[Plaintiff]

Adanu wrote...

Depends on how you define fight. Are we talking warfare, or just one on one?

Both. Physical strength gives you an edge in either situation, but so does quick thinking, or superior training and equipment. The victor will be whoever is able to practically apply their assets in the best possible way.

[Adanu]

If the man has any sense they will win one on one. In warfare... the one with the better equipment usually wins, but you still need to be able to handle that equipment.

[Direwolf0294]

Tevinter. Qunari seem too 1984 for my liking.

[Jzadek72]

Qunari, from a metagame perspective. I've seen plenty of roman analongs in fantasy, but very few societies as interesting as the Qun.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Plaintiff wrote...

The QUnari wants to convert others to help them,

I do not want their brand of "help", and there are many others that share my view. When other religions come knocking on my door, I can tell them I'm not interested and they will respectfully **** off. The Qunari, when faced with rejection, respond with murder. 

If you don't want it that is cool. I don't think I would like living in a Qunari state either. If they tried to forcefully convert me, I would also respond with force. I would not, however, go so far as to eradicate them. It is their right to hold their beliefs, jsut as much as it is mine.

Plaintiff wrote...

THe problem is, no society following a certain ideal, will ever relent in its attempts to make the rest of the world follow this ideal aswell. Not the Qunari, not the Andrastian, not the capitalist and not the communists It is simply the way societies work.

Except all the times that they did no such thing. When the United States formed a democracy, it did not invade Britain to try and put an end to their monarchy. There are socialist nations in Europe that have proven they are perfectly capable of minding their own damn business. There are plenty of religions and other groups that actively tell their followers to mind their own business and respect the choices of others.

You are bringing up modern societies in an attempt to deprive from the Qunari. The problem is, they are modern, the Qunari are not. And in case you didn't notice, America is very busy right now imposing "democracy" on pretty much any nation it sees fit (granted the real reasons for the invasions are another story), and the Soviet Union wasted no time expanding its borders. The moment a nation feel it has the power to expand and keep the new territory udner its control, they will do so.

Plaintiff wrote...

Had THedas been in the Age of Enlightenment, you can be sure the Qunari would have attempted another strategy of conversion,

I can be sure of no such thing. The Qun deals only in absolutes, it cannot change because that would mean admitting it was ever wrong, which is against its very nature. The Qunari showed up three hundred years ago, they were violent douchebags then, and they're violent douchebags now. They've had plenty of time to change their behaviour, if they were ever going to. Clearly, it's not going to happen. 

Blatantly incorrect. The Qunari society does and are even based on change and improvement. For instance, before their first contact with the Andrastian nations, they did not use their Saarebas for anything else than being an attack dog. After they witnessed the powers of the Andrastian mages, they adapted and changed their stance on their own Saarebas, letting their Saarebas improve to become even more formidable mages. The Qunari believes in improvement, and if you can prove to them that a change would be an unquestionable improvement to the Qun, they will adapt to it.

Plaintiff wrote...

however Thedas is more akin to the Middle Ages, in which conquest was the most  effective way of imposing culture.

The time period that Dragon Age derives its setting from is irrelevent. A medieval setting does not excuse medieval morals. All methods of imposing "culture" on others are wrong.

It doesn't have to excuse. It merely needs to explain. You cannot expect a medieval society to hold modern values. The Christians, the Muslims, the Buddhist, the Hindus, ALL of them (except the Jews actually) all tried to forcefully convert their neighbors. You can't expect anything else from the Qunari.

[Beerfish]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Critisiscm is allowed agaisnt the QUn, you just have to present cold hard data to support youyr claims. If you can show a way in which you would reduce waste produced by the Qunari society, you can bet that the Qunari would accept the proposal. However, it might be hard to come up with an absolute unarguable improvement.

lol when has a Qunari ever presented cold hard data on anything?  They are good at saying things like "No", "You do not understand" or they speak in riddles.

[Shadow Fox]

Adanu wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Adanu wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

(another note: they have gender bias (!) so why do some females want to help them, they will not let you fight for example (military is 100% male for them) etc.)

Maybe some women don't buy into feminist lies like you seem too? Like it or not, Women will never be as strong as men are naturally.

You're aware that women are fully capable of fighting like a man right?

I'm aware that women are fully capable of learning techniques and combat theory, but put a woman against a man in melee... if both know what they are doing, the man wins

Fact is men can build muscle beyond what women can. A man can easily handle a womans attacks in melee. Nowadays, women are only limited by the firearms they can use, but that still means the big guns are something limited to men for the most part. This is also why Navy and Air Force are the ones who primarily take women. Dragon Age and other games ignore this aspect of history, which is fine.... but trying to say that women can be as strong as men is ridiculous.

Plaintiff wrote...


And even if men are "stronger", physical strength is not the sole deciding factor in a fight and never has been.

Depends on how you define fight. Are we talking warfare, or just one on one?

Tell that to my mother.

[l7986]

Side with the Tevinter Imperium, and I would even help them recapture Fenris.

[Shadow Fox]

l7986 wrote...

Side with the Tevinter Imperium, and I would even help them recapture Fenris.

...*stabs* stay away from my bro.

[Adanu]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Adanu wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

(another note: they have gender bias (!) so why do some females want to help them, they will not let you fight for example (military is 100% male for them) etc.)

Maybe some women don't buy into feminist lies like you seem too? Like it or not, Women will never be as strong as men are naturally.

You're aware that women are fully capable of fighting like a man right?

I'm aware that women are fully capable of learning techniques and combat theory, but put a woman against a man in melee... if both know what they are doing, the man wins

Fact is men can build muscle beyond what women can. A man can easily handle a womans attacks in melee. Nowadays, women are only limited by the firearms they can use, but that still means the big guns are something limited to men for the most part. This is also why Navy and Air Force are the ones who primarily take women. Dragon Age and other games ignore this aspect of history, which is fine.... but trying to say that women can be as strong as men is ridiculous.

Plaintiff wrote...


And even if men are "stronger", physical strength is not the sole deciding factor in a fight and never has been.

Depends on how you define fight. Are we talking warfare, or just one on one?

Tell that to my mother.

I don't know your mother or why I should tell her anything. My point still stands.

[Arppis]

F them both.

[Giant ambush beetle]

I'd rather be part of the Qunari society then being a Tevinter slave who is going to be sacrificed for their twisted blood magic experiments.

[vortex216]

DarthLaxian wrote...

sorry, but:

how can ANYONE side with the quunari?

do you want to get brainwashed, re-educated and forced to work in job you might hate so badly? if so, then go to some communist country and tell them your wishes...they will take you in a heartbeat (cheap labour is always welcome!)

sorry, for me it is TEVINTER ALL THE WAY

they might have some issues (slavery, only mages in government (also that is not 100% true, as a lot of people (say generals of the armies for example) are non mages - talented non mages, but still, not mages...note: i will not add bloodmagic here, as i do not think it should be forbidden or changed much (!) as the art alone is neither bad nor evil!) but they can be corrected if you have real power and they might be desperate, if they really need you to help them

the quunari will not change, they will force you and lobotomize/drug you if resisst (!) in order to enforce their barbaric philosophy/way of life.

even more disturbing is, that - as i have read on the forums - that these quunari might just be a splinter group from the main quunari people...a splinter group that was driven out most likely because they didn't really try to re-establish contact with their homecountry (!) if that is the case, helping them would be like helping the communist party in russia before they took the government by force in the october revolution and that is unacceptable!

=> they might use the ressources and the menpower (and even the magic - also they tread their mages like dirt (i would not treat the lowest animal that way and even my worst enemy would not be treated this way!) which is another reason i would never help those brainwashed nutcases) to conquer their old homeland (or die trying)...sorry, but i just can't help them, their way is just not acceptable (another note: they have gender bias (!) so why do some females want to help them, they will not let you fight for example (military is 100% male for them) etc.)

greetings LAX

Yes, they the qunari are dictorical, but if it were sooo bad don't you think the system wouldn't work so well? There are some who object ( tal-vashoth), but for the most part,  they go along with it! They even managed to sway elves and humans! Some of their ideas are interesting. It might not be bad to listen to some of them.

[ananna21]

Qunari

[Fraq Hound]

Hmm, Do I have a female Qunari love interest? Cause If so, then I might side with the Qunari.


No?

Well then I'm afraid that all of the Qunari must die! Hail Tevinter! Pew Pew Pew!