251 réponses à ce sujet

[Loyal Tevinter]

Tevinter Imperium!

[Invisus11]

I'd side with the Qunari

[Chaos Lord Malek]

Neither of them, they are both scums. Tevinter is corrupted to the core, and Qunari are like borgs, no thanks.

[Mercedes-Benz]

The Qunari. Blood magic is evil.

[HurricaneGinger]

Tevinter seems to equal blood mages, and the Qunari are equal to "my way or you're dead." This can also be said for the slaves in Tevinter, though. Hmmm...this is a toughie.

The Qunari have an interesting society that Tallis was able to reveal to us somewhat. It seems to be very strict, structured, but peaceful in the sense that everyone knows their place and keeps to it. No selfish desires, etc. We still don't know too much about it, however. Their bombs are desired by all races, so the Qunari obviously have a lot of power.

The Tevinter Imperium is home to mages, of course. And while blood magic is apparently forbidden, it is still used and those who wield it are viewed with respect. Magic can be used without threat here as well. And despite the fact the Imperium is not as powerful as it once was, it is no doubt a force to be reckoned with. They have resources and talent.

I think it would depend on the situation and the information given at the time. But right now...I'd go with the Tevinter Imperium. I'd know what I'm walking into, and I can say no such thing concerning the Qunari.

Modifié par PhantomGinger, 07 novembre 2012 - 07:57 .

[Raydiva]

Trevintor. Only because I don't like my 'place' dictated to my by some blind religious dogma. The Chantry is bad enough, the Qun is worse.

At least in with the Trevintor you have a small chance to prove yourself and move up in the ranks.

[Asdrubael Vect]

only Tevinter

And the tevinter slavery not so bad it seems,...tevinter have elfs magisters, and elf slavers...

....and in other Chantry kingdoms(Orlais, Nevarra,Rivein, Free Marshes...Ferelden(maybe King Alister-warden(halfelf by elf mother) do somethink) elf can't be more than just servant(and live in elianage or nobles manors), at best-the First Enchanter in mage circle(but they are like needles in a haystack)....the only way for them it become the grey warden...but it does not change anything

and if you believe, that to be killed by blood magic to protect the magister (especially if it is an army officer and so that makes his life and knowledge in times price of a servant(any race) ...Tevinter fighting alone against all, it is a necessity, cruel but necessary)....... is worse than to be raped and then stabbed with a sword at the whim of a nobleman, or any rich man living in Chantry kingdoms....Then you, the real hypocrites

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 07 novembre 2012 - 11:23 .

[svenus97]

Damn, that's actually hard. I like them both equally, but I'd probably go with the Qunari.

[The Elder King]

Raydiva wrote...

Trevintor. Only because I don't like my 'place' dictated to my by some blind religious dogma. The Chantry is bad enough, the Qun is worse.

At least in with the Trevintor you have a small chance to prove yourself in the path you choose and move up in the ranks.

Fixed. Qunari could move up in ranks. All the qunari in the military branch could move up in the ranks, with the possibility to become Arishok, The same for the other branches.
The Qun doesn't allow people to choose their path in life, not their position in the path. I'm not saying that that this is good, but it's different from what you said.

[Asdrubael Vect]

hhh89 wrote...

Raydiva wrote...

Trevintor. Only because I don't like my 'place' dictated to my by some blind religious dogma. The Chantry is bad enough, the Qun is worse.

At least in with the Trevintor you have a small chance to prove yourself in the path you choose and move up in the ranks.

Fixed. Qunari could move up in ranks. All the qunari in the military branch could move up in the ranks, with the possibility to become Arishok, The same for the other branches.
The Qun doesn't allow people to choose their path in life, not their position in the path. I'm not saying that that this is good, but it's different from what you said.

just 2 words....Selection program....you love someone, and like to have babys from her/him and start a family?....FORGET ABOUT THIS....

Tamassaran will know "better" from whom you have the child....and no objections or even thought about it, otherwise you will need forsed re educate the Qun teaching, using Qamek...and if that does not work, you no longer see, and no one will ask about you(because you will be in the grave)

and you have baby?....NO...after her/his born, they will be taken and you will not see them in the next 12 years (at least), and you do not know about them, as they are of you .... and then distribute them by caste ... warriors, craftsmen, blacksmiths, and other then .... if they demonstrate the ability of the other castes they can redirect

and for dessert...."possibility to become Arishok".....it is not for no kossind, arishok specifically raise selection of kossind and candidates choosen by tamassaran ..... and they can take someone else kossind very worthy of the warrior caste if he is better that last Arishok(especially if last been killed), and they have no time for growing the new Arishok

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 07 novembre 2012 - 12:09 .

[The Elder King]

Dark Korsar wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Raydiva wrote...

Trevintor. Only because I don't like my 'place' dictated to my by some blind religious dogma. The Chantry is bad enough, the Qun is worse.

At least in with the Trevintor you have a small chance to prove yourself in the path you choose and move up in the ranks.

Fixed. Qunari could move up in ranks. All the qunari in the military branch could move up in the ranks, with the possibility to become Arishok, The same for the other branches.
The Qun doesn't allow people to choose their path in life, not their position in the path. I'm not saying that that this is good, but it's different from what you said.

just 2 words....Selection program....you love someone, and like to have babys from her/him and start a family?....FORGET ABOUT THIS....

Tamassaran will know "better" from whom you have the child....and no objections or even thought about it, otherwise you will need forsed re educate the Qun teaching, using Qamek...and if that does not work, you no longer see, and no one will ask about you

What's your point? Did I say that the qunari system is good? I even said that this isn't what I meant with my post (read the bolded part). Raydiva said that qunari can't prove yourself and move up in the ranks, and this is false. You can prove yourself and move up in the ranks. You can become Arishok, Arigena or Ariqun. You are forced on a path, but you don't have to be a grunt for all your life. That was my point.
The fact that my post was against a person who said that the Qunari is bad doesn't mean I'm a Qunari fan. I'm not.

[PorcelynDoll]

I'll pick the "die free" option dlc.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Being told what "your role is" is not slavery.

Then what is it?

If you are stripped of your personal freedoms and forced into a particular role, with non-compliance being punished by chemical lobotomy or death, then how are you anything other than a slave?

Are Qunari consdired property, sold and bought on a market? No? Then it isn't slavery. It is a way of life that you disagree with. While understandable, it doesn't make your claims of slavery any less incorrect.

[Liamv2]

I follow the anders solution blow them all up

[EmperorSahlertz]

Dark Korsar wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Raydiva wrote...

Trevintor. Only because I don't like my 'place' dictated to my by some blind religious dogma. The Chantry is bad enough, the Qun is worse.

At least in with the Trevintor you have a small chance to prove yourself in the path you choose and move up in the ranks.

Fixed. Qunari could move up in ranks. All the qunari in the military branch could move up in the ranks, with the possibility to become Arishok, The same for the other branches.
The Qun doesn't allow people to choose their path in life, not their position in the path. I'm not saying that that this is good, but it's different from what you said.

just 2 words....Selection program....you love someone, and like to have babys from her/him and start a family?....FORGET ABOUT THIS....

Tamassaran will know "better" from whom you have the child....and no objections or even thought about it, otherwise you will need forsed re educate the Qun teaching, using Qamek...and if that does not work, you no longer see, and no one will ask about you(because you will be in the grave)

and you have baby?....NO...after her/his born, they will be taken and you will not see them in the next 12 years (at least), and you do not know about them, as they are of you .... and then distribute them by caste ... warriors, craftsmen, blacksmiths, and other then .... if they demonstrate the ability of the other castes they can redirect

and for dessert...."possibility to become Arishok".....it is not for no kossind, arishok specifically raise selection of kossind and candidates choosen by tamassaran ..... and they can take someone else kossind very worthy of the warrior caste if he is better that last Arishok(especially if last been killed), and they have no time for growing the new Arishok

Qunari don't want to start families. Qunari want to do what is judged best for their society. That is the ultimate goal of the Qunari. To judge Qunari by the standards of our own society, is to willfully misunderstand them. The Qunari doesn't have the same desires as we do, so the fact that they don't have the same access to our desire might seem abhorrent to us, is just a normal day for the Qunari. The Qunari would likewise find our lack of purpose abhorrent.

[Asdrubael Vect]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Raydiva wrote...

Trevintor. Only because I don't like my 'place' dictated to my by some blind religious dogma. The Chantry is bad enough, the Qun is worse.

At least in with the Trevintor you have a small chance to prove yourself in the path you choose and move up in the ranks.

Fixed. Qunari could move up in ranks. All the qunari in the military branch could move up in the ranks, with the possibility to become Arishok, The same for the other branches.
The Qun doesn't allow people to choose their path in life, not their position in the path. I'm not saying that that this is good, but it's different from what you said.

just 2 words....Selection program....you love someone, and like to have babys from her/him and start a family?....FORGET ABOUT THIS....

Tamassaran will know "better" from whom you have the child....and no objections or even thought about it, otherwise you will need forsed re educate the Qun teaching, using Qamek...and if that does not work, you no longer see, and no one will ask about you(because you will be in the grave)

and you have baby?....NO...after her/his born, they will be taken and you will not see them in the next 12 years (at least), and you do not know about them, as they are of you .... and then distribute them by caste ... warriors, craftsmen, blacksmiths, and other then .... if they demonstrate the ability of the other castes they can redirect

and for dessert...."possibility to become Arishok".....it is not for no kossind, arishok specifically raise selection of kossind and candidates choosen by tamassaran ..... and they can take someone else kossind very worthy of the warrior caste if he is better that last Arishok(especially if last been killed), and they have no time for growing the new Arishok

Qunari don't want to start families. Qunari want to do what is judged best for their society. That is the ultimate goal of the Qunari. To judge Qunari by the standards of our own society, is to willfully misunderstand them. The Qunari doesn't have the same desires as we do, so the fact that they don't have the same access to our desire might seem abhorrent to us, is just a normal day for the Qunari. The Qunari would likewise find our lack of purpose abhorrent.

tell this for the numerous Tal-Vasgots and Sareabas....the QUN and Tamassarants WANT to kossind(and now to the other races) did not have a family  like another life opinion and thoughts of non-Qun..


this is like life in the fascist-communist-nationalist "north korea" style Empire, with faith in the great god-leader-prophet Qun, whose teachings have to know everything, or they would be killed as unbelievers in his holiness .....

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 07 novembre 2012 - 12:53 .

[Plaintiff]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Being told what "your role is" is not slavery.

Then what is it?

If you are stripped of your personal freedoms and forced into a particular role, with non-compliance being punished by chemical lobotomy or death, then how are you anything other than a slave?

Are Qunari consdired property, sold and bought on a market? No? Then it isn't slavery. It is a way of life that you disagree with. While understandable, it doesn't make your claims of slavery any less incorrect.

Definition of SLAVE

1: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another


2: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence

Source: http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/slave

Yes, the Qun is another way of life, so is being a slave.

You didn't answer my question. If Qunari are not slaves, then what other word would be more apt to accurately convey the nature of their existence to a society like our own?

I am not being rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious to know your answer.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Dark Korsar wrote...
tell this for the numerous Tal-Vasgots and Sareabas....the QUN and Tamassarants WANT to kossind(and now to the other races) did not have a family  like another life opinion and thoughts of non-Qun..


this is like life in the fascist-communist-nationalist "north korea" style Empire, with faith in the great god-leader-prophet Qun, whose teachings have to know everything, or they would be killed as unbelievers in his holiness .....

Tal-Vasoth are not Qunari.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Being told what "your role is" is not slavery.

Then what is it?

If you are stripped of your personal freedoms and forced into a particular role, with non-compliance being punished by chemical lobotomy or death, then how are you anything other than a slave?

Are Qunari consdired property, sold and bought on a market? No? Then it isn't slavery. It is a way of life that you disagree with. While understandable, it doesn't make your claims of slavery any less incorrect.

Definition of SLAVE

1: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another


2: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence

Source: http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/slave

Yes, the Qun is another way of life, so is being a slave.

You didn't answer my question. If Qunari are not slaves, then what other word would be more apt to accurately convey the nature of their existence to a society like our own?

I am not being rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious to know your answer.

You should see the Qunari society as an entity of itself, with each individual Qunari a cell in this entity. A Qunari strive for the betterment of this whole entity instead of the self. And just like our liver can't suddenly decide it wants to be a lung, so can't a craftman decide to be a warrior.

[Plaintiff]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Being told what "your role is" is not slavery.

Then what is it?

If you are stripped of your personal freedoms and forced into a particular role, with non-compliance being punished by chemical lobotomy or death, then how are you anything other than a slave?

Are Qunari consdired property, sold and bought on a market? No? Then it isn't slavery. It is a way of life that you disagree with. While understandable, it doesn't make your claims of slavery any less incorrect.

Definition of SLAVE

1: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another


2: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence

Source: http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/slave

Yes, the Qun is another way of life, so is being a slave.

You didn't answer my question. If Qunari are not slaves, then what other word would be more apt to accurately convey the nature of their existence to a society like our own?

I am not being rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious to know your answer.

You should see the Qunari society as an entity of itself, with each individual Qunari a cell in this entity. A Qunari strive for the betterment of this whole entity instead of the self. And just like our liver can't suddenly decide it wants to be a lung, so can't a craftman decide to be a warrior.

But obviously that analogy isn't apt in the least.

Qunari are not internal organs of a greater organism, they are orgaanisms in their own right, sentient beings capable of critical thinking. A liver cannot become a lung but a Qunari can cease to be a Qunari. Most simply do not because they know no other life and have been thoroughly indoctrinated from birth.

Many slaves would also claim to be satisfied with their lot in life if they have never been made aware of an alternative.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Being told what "your role is" is not slavery.

Then what is it?

If you are stripped of your personal freedoms and forced into a particular role, with non-compliance being punished by chemical lobotomy or death, then how are you anything other than a slave?

Are Qunari consdired property, sold and bought on a market? No? Then it isn't slavery. It is a way of life that you disagree with. While understandable, it doesn't make your claims of slavery any less incorrect.

Definition of SLAVE

1: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another


2: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence

Source: http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/slave

Yes, the Qun is another way of life, so is being a slave.

You didn't answer my question. If Qunari are not slaves, then what other word would be more apt to accurately convey the nature of their existence to a society like our own?

I am not being rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious to know your answer.

You should see the Qunari society as an entity of itself, with each individual Qunari a cell in this entity. A Qunari strive for the betterment of this whole entity instead of the self. And just like our liver can't suddenly decide it wants to be a lung, so can't a craftman decide to be a warrior.

But obviously that analogy isn't apt in the least.

Qunari are not internal organs of a greater organism, they are orgaanisms in their own right, sentient beings capable of critical thinking. A liver cannot become a lung but a Qunari can cease to be a Qunari. Most simply do not because they know no other life and have been thoroughly indoctrinated from birth.

Many slaves would also claim to be satisfied with their lot in life if they have never been made aware of an alternative.

Its about believing in an ideal. Like we believe in indivuality and personality, the Qunari values society and duty. They are dedicated to their belief, as much as some fo you are, who goes as far as to call them animals only fit for butchering, simply because they believe in different values.

[Plaintiff]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Its about believing in an ideal. Like we believe in indivuality and personality, the Qunari values society and duty. They are dedicated to their belief, as much as some fo you are, who goes as far as to call them animals only fit for butchering, simply because they believe in different values.

I never called them anything of the kind.

I wouldn't give a crap about their terrible society if it was self-contained. But it's not.

My problem with the philosophy of the Qun is that it calls for the invasion, subjugation and forced conversion or death of anyone who refuses to join. It's a major tenet of their faith, as Sten and the Arishok make perfectly clear. For that reason alone, the Qunari need to be exterminated for the good of everyone else.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Its about believing in an ideal. Like we believe in indivuality and personality, the Qunari values society and duty. They are dedicated to their belief, as much as some fo you are, who goes as far as to call them animals only fit for butchering, simply because they believe in different values.

I never called them anything of the kind.

I wouldn't give a crap about their terrible society if it was self-contained. But it's not.

My problem with the philosophy of the Qun is that it calls for the invasion, subjugation and forced conversion or death of anyone who refuses to join. It's a major tenet of their faith, as Sten and the Arishok make perfectly clear. For that reason alone, the Qunari need to be exterminated for the good of everyone else.

I wasn't talking about you in particular, but the plural "you" of the Qunari opponents. Some of you have less than savory comments about another people, simply based on that peoples outlook on the world. And that the followers of an ideal wants to bring the entire world under their influence is hardly something unique to Qunari, or even Thedas for that matter. Us in the western civilization are doing our best at forcing capitalism and "democaracy" unto every nation that havn't embraced these ideals yet. It is the other side of the medal of ideals, you are often blind to others point of view once you got your own.

[Plaintiff]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I wasn't talking about you in particular, but the plural "you" of the Qunari opponents. Some of you have less than savory comments about another people, simply based on that peoples outlook on the world. And that the followers of an ideal wants to bring the entire world under their influence is hardly something unique to Qunari, or even Thedas for that matter. Us in the western civilization are doing our best at forcing capitalism and "democaracy" unto every nation that havn't embraced these ideals yet. It is the other side of the medal of ideals, you are often blind to others point of view once you got your own.

I'm well aware that it happens elsewhere, and it's wrong in all cases, but the Qunari are far more militant and extreme in their approach, and their totally alien mindset makes any attempt at rational discourse utterly futile.

Tevinter may yet be reformed, but the Qun cannot be reasoned with.

[Evil_Jashinist]

Hawke and I would sit back and watch. With snacks.

Seriously, not getting involved with either of those two. Oo Neither have a society I'd be very happy in...