251 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

I still believe the Tevinter are a bigger threat than the Qun thanks to their collective ability to sunder the veil, and bring diseases from the Fade into Thedas like the Blight. If the Templar Order are to go the way of the Dodo then so should the Tevinter as they would have no one to counter their imperialism once the former, and the Qun are gone.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 07 novembre 2012 - 03:45 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I wasn't talking about you in particular, but the plural "you" of the Qunari opponents. Some of you have less than savory comments about another people, simply based on that peoples outlook on the world. And that the followers of an ideal wants to bring the entire world under their influence is hardly something unique to Qunari, or even Thedas for that matter. Us in the western civilization are doing our best at forcing capitalism and "democaracy" unto every nation that havn't embraced these ideals yet. It is the other side of the medal of ideals, you are often blind to others point of view once you got your own.

I'm well aware that it happens elsewhere, and it's wrong in all cases, but the Qunari are far more militant and extreme in their approach, and their totally alien mindset makes any attempt at rational discourse utterly futile.

Tevinter may yet be reformed, but the Qun cannot be reasoned with.

Yet, even though you are aware it isn't unique, it is still somehow worse when the Qunari does it?
The Qunari respects power. If a society is able to withstand their attempts of conquest several times, tehy will relent. At least for a time. The problem lies in that the Qunari sees the rest of Thedas as inferior, mainly due to the waste happening in all layers of Thedas society. It simply isn't efficient enough to garner the respect of the Qunari. So they will inevitably try and "improve" on the rest of Thedas, for their own good. This of course stems from the Qunari's view of the self and the whole, seeing society as an entity of its own. This also extends to other Thedosian society. Tevinter is just as set in their view of mage supremacy as the Qunari are in the superiority of the Qun. It would take a lot to prove that mundanes are worthy of equal power as a magister, to a Tevinter Magister.

[nightscrawl]

I just have to sigh at the people copping out by saying they won't pick a side, or sit back and watch, etc. That doesn't answer the question, especially since the OP phrased it in terms of being "forced" to choose.

At any rate, I choose Tevinter. And as much as he hates them, I think even Fenris might say that the Qunari are a bigger overall threat to Thedas than the Tevinter magisters are.

One of the reasons for the difference is because the Qunari have a different mentality about themselves, their way of life, Thedas and their place in it, that makes them unlike your typical power-hungry foe. The magisters like power and want more of it. Even if they seek to expand their lands, you can still approach them on those terms. Enemies that believe they are morally superior, or that their way is the only way (the Qunari) are much more dangerous because they have a driving goal that is much more powerful than personal gain.

[Swagger7]

If I had to choose, I'd pick Tevinter. Both are evil, but I think Tevinter has more hope for future change.

[vortex216]

It's curious, I completely support the mages and yet I find myself siding with the qun. I wonder why? Oh yeah, that's right, Tevinter is a demon infested, blood magic, slave party. Granted, the qunari practically treat mages like slaves, they have SOME justification for it.

Modifié par vortex216, 09 novembre 2012 - 10:16 .

[Plaintiff]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Yet, even though you are aware it isn't unique, it is still somehow worse when the Qunari does it?

Um... yes? Like I said earlier, the Qunari are more militant and extreme and cannot be reasoned with. I'm not arbtrarily declaring them to be worse. There are legitimate, obvious reasons as to why they are worse.

The Qunari respects power. If a society is able to withstand their attempts of conquest several times, tehy will relent. At least for a time.

So you admit that the only way to get them to back off is to defeat them. They'll come back as soon as they've amassed enough force to try again. If the people of Thedas were smart, they would chase after them and decimate the Qunari population to make sure it never threatens them again.

The problem lies in that the Qunari sees the rest of Thedas as inferior, mainly due to the waste happening in all layers of Thedas society.

Why the Qunari do what they do is irrelevent. Making an effort to understand them is pointless.

It simply isn't efficient enough to garner the respect of the Qunari. So they will inevitably try and "improve" on the rest of Thedas, for their own good. This of course stems from the Qunari's view of the self and the whole, seeing society as an entity of its own.

I'm well aware of how Qunari view the world, that's how I know their philosophy is vile. If "improving" someone means taking away all their choices, then I will fight to the death before I allow the Qunari to "improve" me. 

This also extends to other Thedosian society.

Not really. 

Tevinter is just as set in their view of mage supremacy as the Qunari are in the superiority of the Qun.

Tevinter may be set in its view, but it is not trying to impose that on other natons. It does not force you to be content with your role, it does not pretend that slavery is "for your own good". Tevinter doesn't flip its **** and call an Exalted March every time someone disagrees with it.

It would take a lot to prove that mundanes are worthy of equal power as a magister, to a Tevinter Magister.

It would be difficult, but not impossible. An important distinction.

[Sith Grey Warden]

Tevinter. The Qunari are more dangerous as they have been able to project enough power to threaten all of Thedas. Tevinter, on the other hand, has lost the strength to do such a thing. If they win the war with the Qunari, they won't necessarily be expanding further. If the Qunari win, they'll keep on going into Thedas as their Qun seems to demand world domination.

[BlueMagitek]

Tevinter. Both systems are flawed, but I'll take the one that doesn't stifle creativity.

[KirstyLionheart]

Qunari. The Vikings of Thedas (:

[Sidney]

Tevinter. Why? Tevinter is more of an authoritarian system. If the mages ever get tossed over the rest of society is "normal" or capable of being normal. The Qun is totalitarian the whole society (or at least most of it) is diseased with the mentality of the Qun. Much harder to "cure" their problems.

[Scott Sion]

I'm Pro mage and I don't like what the Qunari do to their mages, but when it comes down to it I hate Tevinter so much more.

[blueumi]

Tevinter Imperium because in any rpg that lets me pick my class I am a mage even on elder scrolls arena and yes I die more then when I play as a warrior I just love to play as a mage

I don't like that they treat people who are born with out the gift but again I side with mages nine times out of ten which is why I adore Anders

[Gabey5]

The Arishok swayed me to the Qun.

[Archyyy]

I wouldve loved to join the qunari against Kirkwall in DA2. Only things I strongly disagree with are the treatment of mages and theyre a bit too totalitarian to my tastes. Knowing yourself, the lack of religion, the rankings and all are very nice. Much prefer them over the chantry or any monarchy of thedas.

Tevinter on the other hand supports racism and slavery but has no qualms or prejudices about magic. But they have the chantry and unless youre a mage you cant have any real power. Theyre far better than for example Orlais though.

But still I'd choose the Qunari.

Oh and please have characters like Arishok in DA3 and give me the option to agree with them. DA:O and DA2 both had the tendency to force me into disagreeing with the qun and agreeing or at least not strongly opposing the chantry or the chant.

[Han Shot First]

I don't like either, but probably the Tevinter Imperium.

The Qunari are ruled by an oppressive theocracy. No thanks.

[Archyyy]

Han Shot First wrote...

I don't like either, but probably the Tevinter Imperium.

The Qunari are ruled by an oppressive theocracy. No thanks.

The qunari are ruled the the qun which is a philosophy. They are totalitarian but not theocratic. I'd choose them over the chantry and the thedas monarchys any day. All are oppressive but the qunari at least arent religious and emphasise on giving people purpose by getting to know themselves.

[Sidney]

Archyyy wrote...

The qunari are ruled the the qun which is a philosophy. They are totalitarian but not theocratic. I'd choose them over the chantry and the thedas monarchys any day. All are oppressive but the qunari at least arent religious and emphasise on giving people purpose by getting to know themselves.

Not sure why having a controlling philosophy that isn't a religion ( for example the Soviets or the German bad guys whose name gets deleted) is better than having some religious monarachy.  It isn't even like the Chantry runs some sort of Iranian theocratic nightmare state. This is fairly straightforward secular monarchs and state supported religion that Europe used for centuries. Good, no. Better than totalitarians who "give people purpose" (and they all claim to do so) oh heck yes.

[Navasha]

For me, no question it would be the Tevinters. The Qunari society is pretty much everything I despise. To me, without individualism and personality, there is no point to actual living. You are just existing, like an ant colony. There really is nothing more cold and emotionless than an ant colony. Sure, its highly efficient and very survivable, but it gives up everything that a sentient species should cherish to focus on just mere survival.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Yet, even though you are aware it isn't unique, it is still somehow worse when the Qunari does it?

Um... yes? Like I said earlier, the Qunari are more militant and extreme and cannot be reasoned with. I'm not arbtrarily declaring them to be worse. There are legitimate, obvious reasons as to why they are worse.

The Qunari respects power. If a society is able to withstand their attempts of conquest several times, tehy will relent. At least for a time.

So you admit that the only way to get them to back off is to defeat them. They'll come back as soon as they've amassed enough force to try again. If the people of Thedas were smart, they would chase after them and decimate the Qunari population to make sure it never threatens them again.

The problem lies in that the Qunari sees the rest of Thedas as inferior, mainly due to the waste happening in all layers of Thedas society.

Why the Qunari do what they do is irrelevent. Making an effort to understand them is pointless.

It simply isn't efficient enough to garner the respect of the Qunari. So they will inevitably try and "improve" on the rest of Thedas, for their own good. This of course stems from the Qunari's view of the self and the whole, seeing society as an entity of its own.

I'm well aware of how Qunari view the world, that's how I know their philosophy is vile. If "improving" someone means taking away all their choices, then I will fight to the death before I allow the Qunari to "improve" me. 

This also extends to other Thedosian society.

Not really. 

Tevinter is just as set in their view of mage supremacy as the Qunari are in the superiority of the Qun.

Tevinter may be set in its view, but it is not trying to impose that on other natons. It does not force you to be content with your role, it does not pretend that slavery is "for your own good". Tevinter doesn't flip its **** and call an Exalted March every time someone disagrees with it.

It would take a lot to prove that mundanes are worthy of equal power as a magister, to a Tevinter Magister.

It would be difficult, but not impossible. An important distinction.

Everything you say simply serves to prove that you are just as bad as the Qunari by the end of the day. The QUnari wants to convert others to help them, you want to destroy them for that. If you were truly "better" than the Qunari, you would settle for resisting them and repelling their attempts yet accept their existance. THe problem is, no society following a certain ideal, will ever relent in its attempts to make the rest of the world follow this ideal aswell. Not the Qunari, not the Andrastian, not the capitalist and not the communists. It is simply the way societies work. The fact that the Qunari are more militant (though they aren't even nearly as militant as the CHantry were in its starting days) than anything you know, does not make them worse, it makes them a product of their time and enviroment. Had THedas been in the Age of Enlightenment, you can be sure the Qunari would have attempted another strategy of conversion, however Thedas is more akin to the Middle Ages, in which conquest was the most  effective way of imposing culture.

[Ryzaki]

Ugh I'd side with the Qunari. At least they don't have bloodmagic on their side. It'd probably be easier to repel them.

[Han Shot First]

Archyyy wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I don't like either, but probably the Tevinter Imperium.

The Qunari are ruled by an oppressive theocracy. No thanks.

The qunari are ruled the the qun which is a philosophy. They are totalitarian but not theocratic. I'd choose them over the chantry and the thedas monarchys any day. All are oppressive but the qunari at least arent religious and emphasise on giving people purpose by getting to know themselves.

The Qun is a religious philosophy regardless of whether or not the Qunari define it as such. And the Qunari for the most part appear to be much more fanatical than the Chantry. The Chantry after all, isn't currently involved in trying to export its religious beliefs by the sword. The Qunari are.

[Archyyy]

Han Shot First wrote...

Archyyy wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I don't like either, but probably the Tevinter Imperium.

The Qunari are ruled by an oppressive theocracy. No thanks.

The qunari are ruled the the qun which is a philosophy. They are totalitarian but not theocratic. I'd choose them over the chantry and the thedas monarchys any day. All are oppressive but the qunari at least arent religious and emphasise on giving people purpose by getting to know themselves.

The Qun is a religious philosophy regardless of whether or not the Qunari define it as such. And the Qunari for the most part appear to be much more fanatical than the Chantry. The Chantry after all, isn't currently involved in trying to export its religious beliefs by the sword. The Qunari are.

Theres no higher power to the qun as far as I understand so at most its a secular dogma. Im not saying its perfect or anywhere near it but I'd prefer it over orlesian society for example. To improve the qun criticism towards it needs to be allowed, people need to be allowed to seek their places in society themselves to some extent, individualism needs to be allowed to a large degree and mages cant be treated like beasts among other things. But I really like the idea of giving everyone a place in society that suits them and getting to know what one is suited to. The ones that deserve to rule should rule and the ones that are best suited as farmers should do so. That simply cant be decided by the state from birth but after seeing what everyone is best suited to. Assuming that the qun was far better than other cultures in thedas I'd see it as a duty of them to bring improvement. By sword if necessary.

The chantry has exported their beliefs by sword many times. The exalted marches in the dalish for example after they decided not the allow the building of chantries in their lands. The chantry got mad and destroyed or forced them into exile or slavery. In addition to that it has a personal army of templars and openly oppresses and mages.

Modifié par Archyyy, 08 novembre 2012 - 09:46 .