123 réponses à ce sujet

[garrusfan1]

I hope some answer

[David Gaider]

I think our answer would disappoint you.

The reason being that we don't play the game like a fan does. We play a game that is broken and not very fun with an eye towards making it work, and we do so repeatedly until the game is finally in the state you'll play it-- and at that point we're generally done.

Personally, I've never played a game I've worked on after release. I know it backwards and forwards; there is no mystery in it whatsoever and really all I can see at that point are bugs, things that were cut and missed opportunities. My urge would be to stop playing and to mod the game, had I the time.

I can play BioWare games that I didn't work on, however-- I enjoyed all three Mass Effect games, for instance, as well as Jade Empire. I'm kind of a little jealous that people get to go in and play my games without any knowledge of what's behind the curtain.

[LPPrince]

Yeah, thats why I would never want to develop a game.

Hell, I'd love to voice act for a Bioware game(and got close to having my voice heard by the VO Director for DA2 had I actually sent Fernando Melo that damned audition tape to pass to Mrs. Livingstone. Totally my fault for not going through with it).

Thing is, even voice acting has its spoilers revealed, and that sours the effect you'd have playing the game.

Doesn't stop me from wanting to voice act in a Bioware game though. ONE DAY.

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

I think our answer would disappoint you.

The reason being that we don't play the game like a fan does. We play a game that is broken and not very fun with an eye towards making it work, and we do so repeatedly until the game is finally in the state you'll play it-- and at that point we're generally done.

Personally, I've never played a game I've worked on after release. I know it backwards and forwards; there is no mystery in it whatsoever and really all I can see at that point are bugs, things that were cut and missed opportunities. My urge would be to stop playing and to mod the game, had I the time.

I can play BioWare games that I didn't work on, however-- I enjoyed all three Mass Effect games, for instance, as well as Jade Empire. I'm kind of a little jealous that people get to go in and play my games without any knowledge of what's behind the curtain.

Mass Effect.....

Might be a little off topic, but I must ask. Destroy, Control, Synthesis, or Refuse?

Back on topic.:

I see what you mean about already knowing the game you helped create and nothing new being there. But there is something to be said about enjoying a good story if you have the time, even if you already know everything. And going back some time after you've moved on might help you see something you've looked over, or remind you of how much you have improved since and bring that warm fuzzy feeling of accomplishment.

Also missed opportunities. . .  Human Commoner and Human Barbarian would have been soooooo awesome.

[andar91]

I completely understand. I like to write for fun, and I hate being around when other people are reading it or talking about it; all I want to do is go back and change stuff.

[Nashimura]

David Gaider wrote...

I think our answer would disappoint you.

The reason being that we don't play the game like a fan does. We play a game that is broken and not very fun with an eye towards making it work, and we do so repeatedly until the game is finally in the state you'll play it-- and at that point we're generally done.

Personally, I've never played a game I've worked on after release. I know it backwards and forwards; there is no mystery in it whatsoever and really all I can see at that point are bugs, things that were cut and missed opportunities. My urge would be to stop playing and to mod the game, had I the time.

I can play BioWare games that I didn't work on, however-- I enjoyed all three Mass Effect games, for instance, as well as Jade Empire. I'm kind of a little jealous that people get to go in and play my games without any knowledge of what's behind the curtain.

You need one of them zappy things from men in black....

Modifié par Nashimura, 30 septembre 2012 - 04:51 .

[LolaLei]

I guess it must be like actors and musicians who don't llisten to/watch their own work because they'd sit there and drive themselves crazy picking holes in things they aren't happy with. Plus, I imagine when you've had to test play something so many times and change bits etc it loses the magic.

Modifié par LolaLei, 30 septembre 2012 - 07:20 .

[Mary Kirby]

I went out and bought DAO on Steam because I was too impatient to wait for my free copy from work. I definitely agree with David, however, that I don't play the games I've worked on the way that I play any other games. There are no surprises, but I get a lot of enjoyment (and sometimes horror) from seeing how all the pieces came together. Because usually I only see it in very rough stages, before all the art is done, before John Epler has had time to make the ten millionth small change to the scene with Varric walking into Bartrand's house. It's great to see something that started out as just a few words turn into a full experience. It's often so much better than I had imagined it while writing. (Unless there are bugs, in which case I curse vehemently.) And I laugh at my own jokes. I'm terrible, I know.

[upsettingshorts]

Mary Kirby wrote...

And I laugh at my own jokes.

You should.  They're funny.  

[Maria Caliban]

Who did you romance?

[Foolsfolly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

And I laugh at my own jokes.

You should.  They're funny.  

I agree. You guys are hilarious.

[upsettingshorts]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I agree. You guys are hilarious.

I didn't give all of them permission to laugh at their own jokes.  Just Mary.

[Foolsfolly]

You know what? Here's a question for the devs.

What games are you currently playing?

[Sheryl Chee]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I agree. You guys are hilarious.

I didn't give all of them permission to laugh at their own jokes.  Just Mary.

What? I thought we had something, Shorts. I'm wounded. Wounded to the core.

On-topic, I played Origins, even after having worked on it for several years. I actually stayed up till 4 am, playing Origins. I played a city elf warrior who romanced no one, and was friends with everyone else.

I can't romance anyone in the games. It just feels a little wrong. 

[upsettingshorts]

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I agree. You guys are hilarious.

I didn't give all of them permission to laugh at their own jokes.  Just Mary.

What? I thought we had something, Shorts. I'm wounded. Wounded to the core.

Oh it's nothing like that, Sheryl.  

To be honest I actually think Luke is the funniest writer, Jacob was hilarious.

[Maria Caliban]

Sheryl Chee wrote...

I can't romance anyone in the games. It just feels a little wrong. 

I can imagine.

[jkflipflopDAO]

So then this really highlights a problem in your development process. Room for improvement as it were. You guys don't actually look at your final product. You're saying that you see it in little chunks during the development process. . . so the effect of stringing along the full game is lost on you.

. . . So who there actually DOES play these things through and says if the game as a whole is actually fun or not? Do you not even bother thinking in that matter because you feel that you know it inside and out? That's a big mistake. Do you have a bunch of intern kids that are afraid to tell you that the end of your trilogy sucks eggs? That's a big problem, too.

[upsettingshorts]

Well that tangent is certainly off to a good start. Opens by mischaracterizing the responses, then jumps to a conclusion, wraps up by mentioning a game done by an entirely different team.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 septembre 2012 - 06:53 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

So then this really highlights a problem in your development process. Room for improvement as it were. You guys don't actually look at your final product. You're saying that you see it in little chunks during the development process. . . so the effect of stringing along the full game is lost on you.

. . . So who there actually DOES play these things through and says if the game as a whole is actually fun or not? Do you not even bother thinking in that matter because you feel that you know it inside and out? That's a big mistake. Do you have a bunch of intern kids that are afraid to tell you that the end of your trilogy sucks eggs? That's a big problem, too.

Tonight on BSN, another person who doesn't understand how game development works assumes developer incompetence.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 30 septembre 2012 - 06:57 .

[mesmerizedish]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

So then this really highlights a problem in your development process. Room for improvement as it were. You guys don't actually look at your final product. You're saying that you see it in little chunks during the development process. . . so the effect of stringing along the full game is lost on you.

. . . So who there actually DOES play these things through and says if the game as a whole is actually fun or not? Do you not even bother thinking in that matter because you feel that you know it inside and out? That's a big mistake. Do you have a bunch of intern kids that are afraid to tell you that the end of your trilogy sucks eggs? That's a big problem, too.

You realize that for most directors/producers/actors, the premiere is the first time they actually see their film?

[Foolsfolly]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

So then this really highlights a problem in your development process. Room for improvement as it were. You guys don't actually look at your final product. You're saying that you see it in little chunks during the development process. . . so the effect of stringing along the full game is lost on you.

. . . So who there actually DOES play these things through and says if the game as a whole is actually fun or not? Do you not even bother thinking in that matter because you feel that you know it inside and out? That's a big mistake. Do you have a bunch of intern kids that are afraid to tell you that the end of your trilogy sucks eggs? That's a big problem, too.

Whoa, dude.

First off, I'm sure they know their games. Like seriously they put years into working on these things with who knows how many meetings talking over everything. And because it's writing there's that miserable constant rewritiing stage. And on top of all that there's conversation chains some based off of events that happened in prior games!

And speaking firmly for myself. I hate rereading any damn thing I do. You always see where you lack. So I imagine playing something you wrote can never really be fun.

It really didn't surprise me at all when David Gaider said he doesn't play his games.

Second off, BioWare has no problem of not hearing dissenting opinions. Welcome to the BSN.

[jkflipflopDAO]

Look, they don't need a bunch of maroons white knighting them.

Things that look good on paper and should logically work in sequence A B C sometimes don't go as planned. If you just assume ABC all work together without actually experiencing the intended result, then how do you know something there isn't off? How do you know that variable Q way over there hasn't wrecked your entire atmosphere you were going for?

[upsettingshorts]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Look, they don't need a bunch of maroons white knighting them.

Why not?  They've certainly got several hundred bunches of maroons dumping on them.  And being maroons, their feedback isn't particularly useful, despite how frequently it comes up in even the most innocuous of threads they risk poking their head in, lest jkflipflopDAO be about.

In any case, you're inventing both a problem and a cause out of nothing but your own flawed reading of what they've said here and your own assumptions.  This is true regardless, and any white knighting on my part of anyone else's is simply a side effect of pointing this out.

Fact is they said they do play them, but their perspectives - working on it day in and day out for months and years - is so far removed from our experience as gamers that it's difficult for them to see it as a game rather than a collection of compromises.  This would seem to be true of any game regardless of how it is received by customers or the media, seeing as they made no distinction between DAO or DA2.  Furthermore, your assumption that the handful of writers are all BioWare has to provide credible criticism of the finished product is absurd on its face.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 septembre 2012 - 07:19 .